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Pioneer
12-03-2007, 17:35
Ma'kaans Horde - Chaos Army 2000p

Lords and Heroes

Chaos Lord Ma'kaan 270 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided, General, Halberd, Barded Chaos Steed, Gaze of the Gods +30

How does the Spawning work?

Exalted Chaos Champion 131 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided, Chaos Armour, Great Weapon, Helm of Many eyes +25

Bray Shaman 166 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided, Magic Level 1, Braystaff, 2xDispel Scroll +50

Chaos Sorcerer 135Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided, Magic Level 2, Spell Familiar +15

Core

12 Chaos Warriors w. Mark of Chaos Undivided, Shields and Standard 192 Pts

25 Marauders w. Light Armor, Shield and Full Command 200 Pts

5 Chosen Chaos Knights w. Mark of Chaos Undivided, Chosen, Shields and Standard w. Warbanner 290 Pts

6 Marauder Horsemen w. Fails and Musician 96 Pts

7 Chaos Warhounds 42 Pts

6 Chaos Warhounds 36 Pts

Special

8 Chaos Furies 120 Pts

1 Tuskgor Chariot w. Mark of Chaos Undivided 85 Pts

1 Tuskgor Chariot w. Mark of Chaos Undivided 85 Pts

Rare:

1 Spawn of Chaos w. Mark of Slaanesh 75 Pts

1 Spawn of Chaos w. Mark of Slaanesh 75 Pts

Casting Pool: 6

Dispel Pool: 4

Models in Army: 77

Total Army Cost: 1998

All of this is made mainly from what I can convert from my bitz. Some wild be bought... Any good?

Thanks,
-Pioneer

Edit: New list. Hope it works 'couse now it's time to get modelling and painting...

DesertDirge
12-03-2007, 17:44
I don't think the tusktigor chariots can take marks.

chaos_core
12-03-2007, 18:10
charriot can

here what i think

lord drop crown use gaze of gods cheaper (i have used it in 4 battles and havent run away yet ) armours good dont take a deamonic mount you can be targeted on one of these counts as a monster just take a horse {much safer]

champ

cool take a sheild dont leave it in your tent

shaman any reason to take a beastman shammy and not a chaos sorc

core
fine

spe

after the last batlle im warming to chariots again

furies mmmm anti war machine good call

rare

spawns mehh is all i can say about these never had much luck with these

MalusCalibur
12-03-2007, 18:29
Chaos Lord Ma'kaan 349 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided, General, Halberd, Shield, Armour of Damnation +30, Crown of Everlasting Conquest +50, Daemonic Mount +50 Pts

I would personally drop the Daemonic Mount and the Crown: both are expensive and the mount especially is going to make him worse (a cunning opponent will just kill the mount and leave the lord stranded with his M4). Give him a plain old steed and the Gaze of the Gods (the Armour is your choice, personally I wouldn't).


Exalted Chaos Champion 135 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided, Chaos Armour, Blade of Blood +35

I don't like this one. The Blade of Blood should be reserved for the combination with the Pendant of Slaanesh on Slaaneshi Lords. I assume that he joins either the Marauders or the Warriors? Either way, give him the Helm of Many Eyes and a Great Weapon if you want him on foot.


Bray Shaman 141 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided, Magic Level 2, Braystaff, Dispel Scroll +25

If he's for magic defence (which is what I assume, him being your only wizard), then the level 2 upgrade is a total waste. Drop him to level 1 and possibly add a second DS.


20 Chaos Warriors w. Mark of Chaos Undivided, Shields and Full Command 330 Pts

Chaos Warriors are highly cost ineffective at any time, but especially with a unit of this size. Drop them to 12 (2 ranks of 6), lose the command, and give them either Great Weapons or Additional Hand Weapons. Personally I'd drop them altogether though.


20 Marauders w. Light Armor, Shield and Full Command 165 Pts

Good. I like them with Flails but this works too. Put the Exalted in here.


5 Chosen Chaos Knights w. Mark of Chaos Undivided, Chosen, Shield and Full Command 275 Pts

If the Lord is going in here, drop them to four. Either way, think about adding the War Banner.


5 Marauder Horsemen w. Flails and Full Command 105 Pts

Full command is a waste on Horsemen. Especially the Standard: it's easy VP for your opponent. Keep only the Musician, and up them to 6.


5 Chaos Warhounds 30 Pts

5 Chaos Warhounds 30 Pts

Fine. I prefer units of six though.


10 Chaos Furies 150 Pts

10 is too many. A good number is eight.


1 Tuskgor Chariot w. Mark of Chaos Undivided 85 Pts

1 Tuskgor Chariot w. Mark of Chaos Undivided 85 Pts

Tuskgor Chariots are good. Keep them working together.


1 Spawn of Chaos 60 Pts

1 Spawn of Chaos 60 Pts

Spawns make good tarpits. Slaaneshi or Khornate ones are good choices.

Overall it's a reasonable list. Make sure you use the Knights as a flanking force rather than a direct 'hammer', as they will not win unsupported, since the rest of the army is relatively slow moving.

Neknoh
12-03-2007, 22:14
Lower the size of the warriors to 12 or 14, you want them wide with plenty attacks (additional handweapons suggested).

Use the points to upper your Marauder-count, increase the unit-size to 25 and get another unit of marauder Horsemen with Flails and Musician.

I would also suggest either marking the spawns with Tzeentch or Slaanesh.

As for the heroes, they are all good, the Lord is nice and fiendish, as is he Exalted (BoB works WONDERS on exalted champions actually), however, there is no need WHATSOEVER for a second level on a single shaman carrying nothing but a scroll in 2k points.

Pioneer
13-03-2007, 17:18
Changed the list a bit, how is it now...?

kruzkal
13-03-2007, 18:00
Could you explain a little about which units does your character go in? I assume your Lord is with the Chosen Knights. Your Shaman on his own might become an easy picking for your enemy though.

EDIT: Note that Chaos Lords ride Chaos Steeds and not Warhorses :)

Pioneer
13-03-2007, 18:30
I guess I could put the Shaman on one of the Charriots... The Exalted probably goes with the Marauders...

kruzkal
13-03-2007, 18:53
What about your Sorcerer?

MarcoPollo
13-03-2007, 19:04
The shaman can't go with the chariot. Only a beastlord or brayshaman-lord.

I think your list is starting to look pretty good. I like the exalted change with the Helm of many eyes. I think your price for the shaman is off as with the sorceror. You may want to recalculate those.

As for spawns. I never have much success with them either. But that's mostly because I am usually way up the board leaving them in the dust. Even a slaanesh spawn is not useful for me as on average it will go 10 inches. To slow and unpredicatble. For 75 pts X 2 I can get 5 mounted demonettes.

But I think you need to start to proxy play it out. Get a feeling for your style and how the dice rolls for you. Then you can really start to see where you can tighten things up.

As you get more experienced, you'll probably find that you won't need Chaos lord to run the show. It is amazing how many points you can save by just using an exalted hero. The Exalted hero has as good a stats as many other races lords. For the exta points you save you can get alot more cool stuff.

Pioneer
13-03-2007, 20:54
I have played 2 BP games with Chaos and I have to say I liked the army. I used a Sorcerer, 10 Marauders, 15 Warriors and Spawn. Mainly against Empire player.

1st game.

As Empire is my first army, I tryed to use the Marauders as a detachment for the Warriors, didn't really work. I had the Spawn at the center and both core blocks on its sides. Opponent had a Hellblaster on the center and 25 spearmen on its side. We just run trought couple of the first turns as I marched towards him.

When reaching the magic range I hoped the sorcerer could bring the blaster down with missiles, it was totally useless... As I got to the range of the blaster, he peppered the warriors making a very little damage. The next turn I got allmost to the CC and still tryed to take out the blaster with magic, without no success. Then he blasted the Marauders off the table and after that I got to CC, killing spearmen as much as bossible. On the last turn Spawn got to the CC and killed some. I lost as my warriors where running away (sometimes the high Ld doesn't cut it..), my Marauders where blown away and Spawn was onlyone on full strenght.

2nd game. Deployment Map, E=Weedie unit, S=Spawn, M=Marauders, W=Warriors, s=Sorcerer, w=Woods :

_E_ww E S ww_M_ww E s ww_W_

2v2 BP game, me with WE plyer against Empire and VC. Now with little different deployment. As in 1st game I tought that Warrior could make to CC with minimal losses so it started from the open ground, this was at the right flank. Next to it was the woods where my sorcerer was with some WE light cavarly, then was small pathway for the Marauders. There was a ruins at the enemy deployment zone where the Marauders could reach unhinderet. Next to Marauders was the another wood area with Spawn and WE skirmishing bushes (little woodmen thingies) and a another unit of them at the left flank.

When the Warriors reached Empire spearmen line they proof to be good use of points. The VC players had summoned atleast 3 blocks of zombies (mutants, ?) at the end of the game and all the WEs where killed. I had only Warriors in combat against the spearmen and Spawn against zombies. Sorcerer was killed by a lonely WP and Marauders where killed as they run too short from the fight against zombies, darn fear cousing undead...

What do in the next BP or maybe a 1000p game: More Marauders, less Warriors, Exalted Champ instead of Sorcerer and maybe a charriot instead of Spawn as he didn't too much of damage in such a small game. In a bigger game I can ee the advantage...

Thanks for the thoughts of the list and other replys, we'll see how things start to go...

-Pioneer

kruzkal
13-03-2007, 22:57
It is important when designing a list that you have a good idea of the roles each of your units could hold and more importantly how they complement each other as a whole.

A potential problem I have noticedin your list is that you may find your army lacking enough killing power in the long run (after your initial charge assuming you do get to charge) to win you the battle.

Lord with Chosen Knights, the hardest hitting unit in your army. This is all good and well but they are the single unit which stands out in your entire army. All eggs in one basket syndrome and all that. They will be the obvious target of choice for everything your opponent has to offer. Which means your two units of Warhounds (assuming you use them as screens) are unlikely to be enough to get them into combat.

Exalted Champion with Marauders, a unit with great combat capabilities. Although I do feel at over 300 points they are a bit too expensive for what they can do.

The Sorcerer and Shaman on foot on their own can also be easily picked out my your enemy. So best place them in units or at least be beware of that.

Chaos Warriors, the core of Chaos armies of the past. But sadly in the current edition I am sure many would agree with me here that they serve very little purpose. The problem is that they are too expensive to employ in ranks, but are also not as hard hitting nor nearly as fast as Knights. Which means most players would replace them with either Marauders or Knights.

Marauder Horsemen, good fast cavalry.

Warhounds, multi-purpose fast cheap expandable unit. Flankers, screens, skirmisher/lone character/war machine crew hunters, easy 100 table quarter victory points for 30 points, etc.

Furies, essential in practically all Chaos armies.

Two Tuskgor Chariots hit hard but do not fair well in sustained combat. The two Spawns are the very opposit of that. They are tarpits which although can last in combat, they cannot be relied upon to win it. I recommend that you choose either the Chariots or the Spawns depending on how you aim to use your army but not both.

Hope my advice helps :)

Also take a look at my draft Chaos army (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73928) and see what you think!

MarcoPollo
14-03-2007, 05:03
I would also have to agree on the chaos wariors. I was stupid enough to buy two box sets and waste the time painting them. Now they sit on my shelf and I haven't used them in about 20 games. They just collect dust.

at 1500 I run a very tight list. It is fast and hard hitting and also has some staying power. Here is what I use at 1.5k (it has a 12-1) record.

General: Exalted Hero -- Helm of many eyes (leads a unit of 24 marauders with full command).

2 wargors of Tzeetch: 1 with BSB--vitriolic totem (or dispel scroll and goretooth with a great weapon). The other has the staff of darkoth and powerstone/dispel scroll (whichever I chose). Both lead the beastherd (8gor/15ungor) with full command.

2X5 warhounds -- fast
4 chosen chaos knights undivided (std/warbanner). -- Fast
5 marauder horsemen with flails, musician + champ -- Faster
5 mounted demonettes -- very fast
3 screemers -- lightning fast

At 2k I have alot of variety but the core of my army is still this. But I also know how it works. I know where many of its weaknesses are, and can guard against them.

The same will happen for you. After you realize what you like and how you like to use them, the wins will come.

Good luck!

Pioneer
14-03-2007, 17:11
I do have a Chaos Charriot without crew, need couple of then new warriors for it to make it complete. Could it work? Also I could make one more Tusgor Charriot... I can let go of one of those Spawns, but what else should I remove? I probably could downgrade the Lord for another Exalted... Maybe give some marks of gods for some...

How does the Spawning work with the Gaze of Gods...?

laughingman
14-03-2007, 19:11
I would also have to agree on the chaos wariors. I was stupid enough to buy two box sets and waste the time painting them. Now they sit on my shelf and I haven't used them in about 20 games. They just collect dust.

at 1500 I run a very tight list. It is fast and hard hitting and also has some staying power. Here is what I use at 1.5k (it has a 12-1) record.

General: Exalted Hero -- Helm of many eyes (leads a unit of 24 marauders with full command).

2 wargors of Tzeetch: 1 with BSB--vitriolic totem (or dispel scroll and goretooth with a great weapon). The other has the staff of darkoth and powerstone/dispel scroll (whichever I chose). Both lead the beastherd (8gor/15ungor) with full command.

2X5 warhounds -- fast
4 chosen chaos knights undivided (std/warbanner). -- Fast
5 marauder horsemen with flails, musician + champ -- Faster
5 mounted demonettes -- very fast
3 screemers -- lightning fast

At 2k I have alot of variety but the core of my army is still this. But I also know how it works. I know where many of its weaknesses are, and can guard against them.

The same will happen for you. After you realize what you like and how you like to use them, the wins will come.

Good luck!

staff of darkoth cannot be taken on a wargore.

since they can not take the mundane form of a braystaff, they can not take the magical form of one either, it doesnt matter that they are wizards now.

kruzkal
14-03-2007, 19:38
Mortal Chariots (especially Khornate) can handle themselves reasonably well after the initial charge. Beastmen Chariots on the other hand are cheaper but are pretty much done for if your opponent survives.

What to add to your army largely depend on what you want the army to be achieve to be honest.

If your Lord is fleeing at the beginning of the Chaos Magic Phase, he becomes a Chaos Spawn.

MarcoPollo
15-03-2007, 00:38
staff of darkoth cannot be taken on a wargore.

since they can not take the mundane form of a braystaff, they can not take the magical form of one either, it doesnt matter that they are wizards now.

Since when?

The wargor of tzeetch is considered a shaman and as such can take the staff of darkoth. It is not listed as a magic weapon but an arcane item. So, although they can't take the braystaff as a mundane weapon, they can take the staff of darkoth as it is not considered a magic weapon but an arcane item.

kruzkal
15-03-2007, 00:49
Touché.

:)

MarcoPollo
15-03-2007, 00:58
Discussions on the staff of Darkoth can be found here http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47708&highlight=Darkoth

Pioneer
19-03-2007, 15:21
What's the differense with Gor and Ungor? I tought I could use Marauders as beastmen herd.

MarcoPollo
20-03-2007, 02:13
Ok!

Gor - beast fighty figure in a beastherd -- 7 pts each (best with 2 hand weapons)
Ungor - beast wimpy figure in a beasther -- 4 pts each (no shields for best use)
Marauders - mortal infantry at 5 pts each with upgrades of Light armor/handweapon/shield for 7 points.

Get the books!

Pioneer
20-03-2007, 16:51
Ok!

Gor - beast fighty figure in a beastherd -- 7 pts each (best with 2 hand weapons)
Ungor - beast wimpy figure in a beasther -- 4 pts each (no shields for best use)
Marauders - mortal infantry at 5 pts each with upgrades of Light armor/handweapon/shield for 7 points.

Get the books!

He didn't get the question... What is i the difference in model wise? I thought that I could use Marauder models couting as beastmen...

MarcoPollo
20-03-2007, 21:57
Sorry Pioneer,

Gors, ungors and marauders all have the same base sizes. But you cannot have a mortal and a beast mix within the unit. You can have units of beasts and mortals (and demons for that matter) in your army, but you can't have a mortal unit with beast characters or a beast unit with mortal characters.

So in a beastherd you can have gors and ungors, but not marauders. Similarly, you cannot have any gors, or ungors in a mortal unit.

Of course you can have "counts as" any way you like. As long as your opponent doesn't object. In that case, marauders would be best suited to proxy gors. But this can be very confusing to your opponent in a bad unfriendly way. But if you are just trying things out, do what you want. Sometimes I just use paper to represent units that I wan't to try before I buy them.

Pioneer
21-03-2007, 05:47
Of course you can have "counts as" any way you like. As long as your opponent doesn't object. In that case, marauders would be best suited to proxy gors. But this can be very confusing to your opponent in a bad unfriendly way. But if you are just trying things out, do what you want. Sometimes I just use paper to represent units that I wan't to try before I buy them.

This is what I was going for. Marauder skirmishers counting as beastmen herd and Marauder Charriots counting as Tusgor Charriots...

MarcoPollo
22-03-2007, 06:01
Ya thats OK but not accepted well in Tourneys etc. If you are playing for fun games, then proxy what you like.