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McMullet
13-03-2007, 12:09
Greetings all.

The wording of the Challenges section in the Warhammer rulebook tells us that the character or champion that accepts the challenge, "is moved in the ranks to be opposite the challenger" (my emphasis).

Now, in the past I've always played this to mean that the accepter (or, if necessary, challenger) is moved to be in base-to-base contact with the other model. However, a situation has come up on a couple of occasions whereby my unit champion is in file #2, fighting a challenge with a character in file #1 (see diagram: Key: Blue/Red = models fighting in challenge; Grey/White = Rank and File models.)

The positions of these models are as they are when they charged. Blue issues a challenge; red accepts. Red doesn't need to be moved to get into base contact, though the two models are not "opposite" each other, they are closer to being corner-to-corner. Also, Grey cannot now attack the unit, as he is only in base contact with blue. This seems to grants Blue's unit an unfair advantage (using a challenge to prevent a model from attacking the unit as a whole does not seem to be the idea of a challenge).

Should red move to be as "opposite" as possible to blue?

Should the requirement to "Get as many models as possible in combat" still apply in this situation?

On rereading, it seems to me that the models in a challenge are meant to be moved as close as possible to each (which would normally allow as many Rank and File models as possible to also fight), but the wording does not appear to be clear. It states that "occasionally, models may be prevented from attacking", but this is not something that would happen occasionally.

The alternative is to always put champions on the corner of the unit, but I find this to be slightly daft, and somewhat untidy.

Your input is most welcome.

Kotobuki
13-03-2007, 22:31
It is quite possible for a challenge to keep models from attacking in a number of ways. In this case, as Red and Blue are already in contact, there is no need to move them. This does in fact leave grey in the cold, as far as combat is concerned.

In a combat with spear/pike wielders defending against Cavalry, if the Unit champions' bases are centered on each other, and a challenge is fought, the models behind the spear/pike champion will be unable to fight in the combat, as the only model they're directly across from (base to base wise) is the enemy champion.

T10
13-03-2007, 23:06
You are reading too much into "opposite". It is sufficient that the models are in base-to-base contact. After all, they are on "opposite" sides of an imaginary line drawn between them.

Houserule: Around here we don't bother too much with the issue of challenges cutting the odd man out of the fight. We allow models in contact with the enemy unit to resolve attacks against the rank-and-file, which tends to work ok in homogenous units.

-T10

DeathlessDraich
14-03-2007, 08:45
1)Blue and Red do not move.
Models in a challenge have to be moved only if they are not in base contact. pg 77 " ...moved in the ranks to a position where he is in base contact".
The new FAQ also issues guidelines recommending simplification.

2) 'Get as many models into btb' applies to charging and its final alignment.
Models are not obliged by the rules to maximise after a round of combat. Personally I would prefer a rule for this but unfortunately the problem of models being disengaged from combat has not been addressed except for rear ranks

3) "occasionally ...the challenge may stop other models from fighting at all if the only enemy model they are in base contact with is the character."

Grey does not fight because of the challenge.

It has to be worded this way otherwise it won't work in a different situation.
e.g. a character in a chariot charges two units each 5 wide and issues a challenge.

McMullet
14-03-2007, 11:04
Thanks gentlemen. What you're saying makes sense. I just dislike putting champions on the corner of a unit, as it seems... messy.

Greyfire
14-03-2007, 15:34
Thanks gentlemen. What you're saying makes sense. I just dislike putting champions on the corner of a unit, as it seems... messy.

Why would you want the champion in either corner? What advantage would that yield? (Other than to ensure he can fight if charged from the flank, of course.)

If he had been in positions 2,3 or 4 (counting from left to right,) then would there be any way that the the accepter could have moved to block that grey trooper from attacking? I don't think so but I could be missing something.

Am I right in that thinking guys? I've always kept my champions and heroes as close to center just for that reason.

-=- Greyfire

EvC
14-03-2007, 15:54
It also minimises the number of attacks that may be directed at him, which is certainly helpful. Assuming equal base and unit sizes, if he can kill both guys in base-to-base contact then none may strike back, but if he's in the middle there'll always be someone who could strike back at him.