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Black Behemoth
13-03-2007, 14:31
This is Undivided Mortal Chaos with a Spartan theme, so I do not plan on using Daemons nor Beastmen. It also makes the use of ultra-powerful units that get cleaned up by my battleline.

Lords
Kratos
Chaos Lord w/ Armor of Ares (Chaos Armor), Twin Blades (additional hand weapon), Gaze of the Gods, Mark of Khorne (he IS crazy) (646)
- Mounted on a Hydra (Chaos Dragon)
I may be putting WAY too many eggs in one basket here, so I may downgrade him a bit if it is (1) too cheesy or (2) the biggest point sink you've ever seen. I would use him not only as a killing machine, but as a diversion. He will attack from the flank, and the enemy will do his best to counter it. Then, my Horsemen will attack from the other flank and the Chariots and Marauders up the middle.

Heroes:
Spartan Captain
Exalted Champion w/ Halberd, Chaos Armor, Shield (106)
Cheap and effective. He will sit back with the Marauders to give them a combat boost and a leadership boost.

Cores:
20 Marauders w/ Light Armor, Shields, Standard Bearer (150)

20 Marauders w/ Light Armor, Shields, Standard Bearer (150)

20 Marauders w/ Light Armor, Shields, Standard Bearer (150)

20 Marauders w/ Light Armor, Shields, Standard Bearer (150)
They make up the main bulk of my army, and will be made to look like Spartan hoplites. They give me numbers, and are tough for their cheap cost. They will advance up the middle, with the Champion in the center squad to give his leadership to all three units plus the Chariots.

5 Knights (135)

5 Knights (135)

5 Marauder Horsemen w/ Flails (75)

Shock troops, and will look like Greek allies to the Spartans. They will back up Kratos in a flank charge.

1 Chariot of Chaos w/ Mark of Khorne (150)

1 Chariot of Chaos w/ Mark of Khorne (150)
These will advance with the Marauders on their flanks, giving them some more power.

Specials:
None. This is an all-mortal army.

Rares:
I may put back in a Hellcannon, or I may just save it for if I want to make a 2500 or 3000 point list.

Total: 1997 points

As described above, I put the Hellcannon and Dragon on the flanks to act as a cattle prod to herd the enemy into the middle or back, where my Marauders and Chariots will finish them off with one swift attack. If the enemy tries to spread firepower to everything, he will fail to stop anything. And if he stops one thing, the other two parts of this tactic will rip him apart.

If the enemy goes on the offensive, it only makes it easier to eliminate him. His cavalry will try to charge the Dragon backed up by shock troops, and will die, or try and charge the Marauder flanks and run away from the fear-causing Chariots. If they charge up the middle, the Marauders, my Champion, and the Chariots will eat him alive, with the Dragon and Horsemen attacking the flank and/or rear.

pcgamer72
13-03-2007, 14:46
I would definitely recommend giving your Lord some type of Magical equipment. If you're spending that many points on him alreayd, you might as well spend a little more and make him even better in combat and/or harder to snipe! The Berserker Sword is always a nice choice for an offensive character. I would efinately recommend at least giving him Gaze of the Gods, so he has some type of protection.

In order to get these points, I would probably drop the unit of Marauder Horsemen without flails and then use any remaining points to put Musicians into the Marauder blocks. I know that you said those Marauder Horsemen were to stay by the HellCannon, but if you dropped 1 model from both of the other Marauder Horsemen units, you can afford a unit of 5 Hounds to do the same thing.

Black Behemoth
13-03-2007, 15:03
Hmm. I gave the Lord a Berserker Sword (especially good since the Dragon has such a big base!), but I am not so sure about Gaze of the Gods (with the Spawn side effect and all).

Warhounds have terrible leadership though, and would probably end up running if the enemy tries to shoot at them.

Should I replace the two Horsemen squads with Flails with some Khornate Chosen Knights? They may be better support for Kratos, although more expensive and not as quick.

Edit: I realized that I miscalculated some things, so I am 32 points over. What should I remove?

pcgamer72
13-03-2007, 15:10
What is the leadership on Hounds? I believe it is 6, but I can't be positive right now. If so, that's 1 point lower than the Horsemen, which could matter, but you're also saving 60 points. Plus if your opponent shoots at them you can laugh :-P.

Chosen Khorne Knights are incredibly nasty, but you wouldn't really have any units to help protect them from being led around.

Black Behemoth
13-03-2007, 15:17
Hounds are 5 unfortunately.

If the Chosen Knights are led around, my Hellcannon will blow that unit leading them into a pile of charred body parts. ;)

Would it be wise to try and get the Dragon to charge the rear of the army? That way, the enemy would be forced to turn around to fight it, leaving the rear exposed to my battleline. Then, the Horsemen could hit the flank and they will be surrounded,

Black Behemoth
14-03-2007, 11:04
Do you think that 85 models in 2000 points is too low? Should I try and get some more numbers somehow?

kruzkal
14-03-2007, 14:19
It is not just about how many models. It is about the number of model in units, the number of units in the army, how durable are the units, and how do the units complement each other in battle. I have only 64 models in my current draft list (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73928http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73928) but have 13 units who predominately hit very hard.

Overall all I think your army is well rounded but you may have a hard time facing a few army types. Magic heavy armies may dominate you as you have no magic protection what so ever. Fast armies may be able to neutralise your Horsemen and Chariots. And finally you have very little protection against shoot armies as your units are light and fragile.

druchii
14-03-2007, 15:09
This is Undivided Mortal Chaos with a Spartan theme, so I do not plan on using Daemons nor Beastmen. It also makes the use of ultra-powerful units that get cleaned up by my battleline.

Lords
Kratos
Chaos Lord w/ Armor of Ares (Chaos Armor), Berserker Sword, Enchanted Shield (620)
- Mounted on a Hydra (Chaos Dragon)
I may be putting WAY too many eggs in one basket here, so I may downgrade him a bit if it is (1) too cheesy or (2) the biggest point sink you've ever seen. I would use him not only as a killing machine, but as a diversion. He will attack from the flank, and the enemy will do his best to counter it. Then, my Horsemen will attack from the other flank and the Chariots and Marauders up the middle.

Heroes:
Spartan Captain
Exalted Champion w/ Halberd, Chaos Armor, Shield (106)
Cheap and effective. He will sit back with the Marauders to give them a combat boost and a leadership boost.

Cores:
20 Marauders w/ Light Armor, Shields, Standard Bearer (150)

20 Marauders w/ Light Armor, Shields, Standard Bearer (150)

20 Marauders w/ Light Armor, Shields, Standard Bearer (150)
They make up the main bulk of my army, and will be made to look like Spartan hoplites. They give me numbers, and are tough for their cheap cost. They will advance up the middle, with the Champion in the center squad to give his leadership to all three units plus the Chariots.

8 Marauder Horsemen w/ Flails (120)

8 Marauder Horsemen w/ Flails (120)

Shock troops, and will look like Greek allies to the Spartans. They will back up Kratos in a flank charge.

1 Chariot of Chaos w/ Mark of Nurgle (135)

1 Chariot of Chaos w/ Mark of Nurgle (135)
These will advance with the Marauders on their flanks, giving them some more power. They will appear fearful, which is why I gave them the mark of Nurgle (although it is still, fluffwise, an Undivided chariot). The fear will keep enemy models away from the flanks, protecting the Marauders from flankers.

Specials:
None. This is an all-mortal army.

Rares:
1 Hellcannon w/ Chaos Disruption (320)
[I]Here we have it, folks. The final addition that completes the enemy's pant-
_SNIP_


See, I'm just terrified at the thought of having 1000pts tied up in two units. That dragon looks awfully lonely as the sole threat of the army. While the cannon is diabolical, you can flee from his blast, or hopefully weather it.

The dragon however, would get my full attention. You've done a fairly good job of kitting the dragon and his rider (shouldn't he have two hand weapons, on chains?!) out to whack ranked infantry, which is one of the few things that gives this badboy fits.

However, after the dragon is neutralized, really all that's left is mopping up the marauders while either avoiding the hellcannon. While I've got no real honest to god experience with a list like this, I'd almost suggest getting knights.

Add more pressure to the cooker. In this list, it seems like the horsemen are rather out of place. Being outpaced by the dragon, they'll find themselves either hanging around the infantry blocks, or somewhere in the middle-ground, alone.

Also, I think hoping that fear will keep people away from the marauder flanks is a bit wishful. If you ditch the two chariots, and the two units of horsemen you'll be sitting with enough points for over 10 knights of chaos. Two units of five would really take the heat off of Kratos while he flys around seeking vengeance (and naked women, hopefully we'll see more in the second iteration of the game!).

Regards
d

PS> I had the spartan theme first! :P

Black Behemoth
15-03-2007, 01:58
The reason I removed the extra hand weapons was because he has a 3+ save (only +1 to save for being mounted).

I like the chariots. They give my battleline muchneeded power. What else should I remove to fit in knights?

kruzkal
15-03-2007, 02:29
If you want hitting power from chariots, I'd go for Khorne. An extra 2 S5 attacks is a real treat. But be careful not to get lured into difficult terrain though.

Black Behemoth
15-03-2007, 09:55
I made some large changes.

I decided to remove the Hellcannon. At this point level, its cost is just too much of a burden for me to take. And unlike the Dragon, it probably won't ravage an entire arm to pieces.

With the points, I added another unit of Marauders (for numbers), two units of Knights (after looking at the point costs, I've concluded that Chosen Knights, especially of Khorne, are not worth their price IMO), and filled up the remainder of points with a small unit of Marauder Horsemen with Flails, which will try to flank the enemy if their is terrain present for screening. If no terrain, they will accompany the Chariots.

Kratos received some more fluffy gifts. He has an additional hand weapon for his twin blades, he has the Gaze of the Gods because the Greek gods (and Khorne...) are watching him, and he has the Mark of Khorne (just play God of War and you will see why).

Just one question. Since it says that the frenzy is not given to the mount on a character with the MoK, would my Lord still have to charge the closest unit when he is mounted on his Dragon? I wanted to be more tactical with him, charging the rear or if not the flank.

kruzkal
15-03-2007, 10:53
You need some screens and a bit more magic protection than the mere 2 dispel dice from the Chariots. Your Knights will be blasted to oblivion before they have any chance to reach combat.

Also without screens, watch out for your opponents luring your Chariots away with fast cavalries.

PS: Your Lord will have to charge if in range. However, you could place him in a way such that no enemy models are in it's 90 degrees LOS untill you plan to charge the next turn.

Black Behemoth
16-03-2007, 12:58
What should I use? Should I replace the exhaulted with a Sorcerer? While it isn't fluffy with Khorne, I could say it is a priest to the Gods with divine powers.

As a screen, what could I use?

Xavier
16-03-2007, 13:18
Cheap and effective. He will sit back with the Marauders to give them a combat boost and a leadership boost.

...with the Champion in the center squad to give his leadership to all three units plus the Chariots.

The model with the highest leadership has to be the general (so your lord on the dragon would be in this case) meaning you can't use the champion to confer leadership to units near to him.

Black Behemoth
16-03-2007, 13:48
If he joined one of them, wouldn't that one squad use his leadership? Or is that a 40k-only rule?

If not, should I just remove him for a Sorcerer?


Should I just remove the Dragon? I love having such a destructive, scary killing machine, but it seems to be making the rest of my army suffer? I'll leave the decision to the populus.

beastgod
16-03-2007, 15:15
the unit he joins gets his ld
Dont remove the dragon its cool and likley to destroy whatever it fights..

I would remove one unit of marauders to get khorne knights and a unit maruder horsmen more and som warhounds.

Dont think you need 4 unit If you take 3 units you can have an chariot between each unit to counter charge and then the maruders helps so that the chariot not charge difficult terrain.
Halberd and an shield is much better than add handweapon, with halberd you get 12 S6 attacks.... you dont need one attack more better to get stonger attacks...

Dooks Dizzo
16-03-2007, 18:25
Honestly this doesn't strike me as Spartan themed at all really.

though the movie 300 might have you believe otherwise Spartans made serious use of armor all over the body, not just helmets. Chaos Warriors with heavy armor and sheilds truly fit the theme better.

On top of that Spartans were the premier warriors of the day. maruaders do not have the stat line to back that up. Warriors are far more suited with their WS5 and S4 characteristics.

Spartans were also notorious for their valor. Ld8 with an Undivided mark represents that much better than the Ld7 with no reroll of the mauraders.

And there is nothing Greek about either a Hell Cannon or a Dragon.

The list itself is fine but the theme is totally missing.

MarcoPollo
16-03-2007, 19:22
I'd say that you should have chaos warior too. But if you like the movie feel then marauders will be more in tune.

To give an idea of fighting to the last man. The banner of the gods will really give you this feel, especially with chaos wariors. The dragon, big old points sink and you can afford some magic protection for what you save. Put him in some knights of khorne.

Black Behemoth
18-03-2007, 06:08
Spartans only had bronze armor opposed to the iron or steel that most heavy armor is made of. Such a weak metal I think represents light armor. Plus, from a tactical point of view, Marauders are better point for point.

You are right about the Hellcannon, but the Dragon is just a bit of Greek mythology thrown into the mix (representing a Hydra). I think I will just remove it, however. It is too big a point sink, and I doubt it will ever get back its points.

Is Archaon's Horde a tournament legal army list? If so, I may use it.

Rathstar
18-03-2007, 18:25
Hi,

I dragon can win a game almost on it's own with a flank charge at the right time. However you might find yours hard to control with the frenzy, how about making him undivided and give him the slaughters blade.

If you dropping the dragon definetetly consider the Archaon's Horde list as it will make your mauraders undivided if they're 25+.

SoC is not allowed at UK GTs, but I think most other tournaments allow them. It's best to check with the tournaments you're considering going to.

Rathstar

beastgod
18-03-2007, 19:41
no archaons hord give the marauders free command if 25+ you have to have crom to get undivided maruders

Rathstar
18-03-2007, 20:07
Opps, me bad, beastgod is correct