PDA

View Full Version : Azrael and Command squad question



paspinall
13-03-2007, 18:22
Hey guys,

Now I know I can take Azrael (or my chapter equivilent anyway) and a command squad, BUT the command squad entry says that Company champions can only be taken if a company master is also take.

Am I therefore right in assuming that if I took a command squad and Azrael as the only character that I could NOT include a company champion?

Thommy H
13-03-2007, 18:25
Azrael is not a Company Master, so no, you couldn't.

Hulkster
13-03-2007, 18:26
corect you could not take a company champion

paspinall
13-03-2007, 18:49
thought so, cheers guys.

Grand Master Raziel
13-03-2007, 22:43
Why would you take a Command Squad? Why not simply attach Azrael to a Company Veterans squad? That combo would be lethal.

insaniak
13-03-2007, 22:44
Why not simply attach Azrael to a Company Veterans squad?

Because you can't.

He can join them. He can't be attached to them.

GraveDancer
13-03-2007, 22:53
dude, semantics - i think he knows that, his wording is just potatoe potato

insaniak
13-03-2007, 23:02
'Attached' and 'Joined' are two very different game mechanics.

So in this case, the semantics are important. It's like somebody claiming that a Frag Missile is Rending. Sure, everyone will know I actually mean 'Blast' rather than 'Rending', right? ;)

paspinall
13-03-2007, 23:14
As for what is happening, well Azrael isnt joining the HQ squad, hey can act independantly afterall but they may end up accompanied by a Chaplain.

Having said that the idea of 10 Company vets all with Combat shield is pretty appealing :D in which case I wouldnt want Azrael with them or it would be a waste... hmmm

GraveDancer
13-03-2007, 23:51
'Attached' and 'Joined' are two very different game mechanics.

So in this case, the semantics are important. It's like somebody claiming that a Frag Missile is Rending. Sure, everyone will know I actually mean 'Blast' rather than 'Rending', right? ;)

oh of course, its important to be clear about these things for people shaky about the rules, but i just think the guy you addressed your correction to knows the rules so its merely a case of smeantics in regards to him.

i'm bored at work, shoot me please

GraveDancer
13-03-2007, 23:57
As for what is happening, well Azrael isnt joining the HQ squad, hey can act independantly afterall but they may end up accompanied by a Chaplain.

Having said that the idea of 10 Company vets all with Combat shield is pretty appealing :D in which case I wouldnt want Azrael with them or it would be a waste... hmmm

if you were going to make azrael join a 10 man vet squad, why would you give them combat shields? he already gives them a 4+ inv save

insaniak
14-03-2007, 01:06
if you were going to make azrael join a 10 man vet squad, why would you give them combat shields? he already gives them a 4+ inv save

That's what he just said...

paspinall
14-03-2007, 10:32
Ok topic going a 'little' off :)

As I said my current army looks like it ill be taking a squad of veterans AND a command squad, now Azrael can go with either giving them a 4+ save, however do I place him with the vets, thus making a larger use of the 4+, OR as they can take combat shields (which looks cool) do I use him with the command squad, they gain the 4+ save and Azrael gets the +1 attack from the Chapter banner I can then take...


On another note I am plannng on taking a squad of scouts, some veterans and some deathwing, or would it be wise to replace one of these with a Dread if I can find the points?

Marshal2Crusaders
14-03-2007, 11:06
oooh Azreal and a Veteran squad I think i know what ill be adding to my army.

Hulkster
14-03-2007, 11:59
I would take azreal with the command squad and a Libarian.

CC death machine right there. I have been thinking about using that myself.

The Emperor
14-03-2007, 12:27
Or a Command Squad and a Chaplain. Everyone in the squad gets +1 Attack thanks to the Chapter Banner, and they get to reroll any failed attacks thanks to the Chaplain.

paspinall
14-03-2007, 13:50
My current list does look like it will be a Chaplain and Azrael, so I may forget the idea of combat shields then and use Azrael with the vets and the Chaplain with the command squad

Hulkster
14-03-2007, 16:02
I have toying with the idea (in a 2000 pts game) to take azrael in a command squad with a libby.

then taking a full company veteran squd with 4 combat shields and 2 storm shields

sticking them both in a rhino each

then getting a 10 man asasautl sqaud and sending the lot of them down one flank with some ravenwing support leaving some tactical squads hollding the battle line

Starchild
14-03-2007, 21:06
Or a Command Squad and a Chaplain. Everyone in the squad gets +1 Attack thanks to the Chapter Banner, and they get to reroll any failed attacks thanks to the Chaplain.The Chapter Banner may only be taken for a standard bearer if Azrael is in the army.

An Interrogator-Chaplain gives the option for taking a Sacred Standard.

Otherwise, the only banner available to a Command Squad is the Company Banner.

:(


My current list does look like it will be a Chaplain and Azrael, so I may forget the idea of combat shields then and use Azrael with the vets and the Chaplain with the command squadIn which case, you can do as The Emperor directs. :)

The Emperor
14-03-2007, 21:59
The Chapter Banner may only be taken for a standard bearer if Azrael is in the army.

My post was made in response to Hulksters post right before mine, with the assumption that Azrael was in the squad. After all, this is a thread about Azrael. :p

Lord Balian
14-03-2007, 22:53
OK I guess I don't understand the difference of attached and joined. Other then deployment, what is the difference? As far as I know they act exactly the same game wise, other then attached characters deploy together with the unit, rather then seperately.

Thommy H
14-03-2007, 23:05
An attached IC is a part of his unit and cannot leave it. They deploy together and, as long as any of his retinue survive, he cannot revert to being an IC (except in assaults).

An IC can freely join a unit and can also freely leave it whenever he wishes. I believe he can deploy joined to a unit (i.e. within 2" coherency), but I think an FAQ clarified that an IC and a unit cannot roll together for reserve rolls (which is a problem for Dark Angels).

paspinall
15-03-2007, 00:33
Doesnt the Codex clearly state though that an IC CAN deploy with a Deathwing squad ?

insaniak
15-03-2007, 01:12
Doesnt the Codex clearly state though that an IC CAN deploy with a Deathwing squad ?

Not exactly, no.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1375214&postcount=34

paspinall
15-03-2007, 10:39
I see no problem with their statement actually.

The DW assault rules says the IC must join a unit to get the benefit, well any IC in terminator armour can join a Deathwing squad, they cant be attatched to it but they can join, which as I recall is different to the main deepstriking where they must be attatched to deepstrike at the same time?

insaniak
15-03-2007, 11:17
The DW assault rules says the IC must join a unit to get the benefit,

Which is exactly the problem with the rules as written, since the IC has no way of actually joining the squad at that time.

That's just taking the rules exactly as written, though. As has been discussed in other threads, the DA Codex seems to have been written under the assumption that ICs can join squads before the game begins, despite that not actually being allowed by the rules.

If you make that assumption, then the IC joining the unit to perform a Deathwing Assault is just fine and dandy.

paspinall
15-03-2007, 11:47
Ah, I see, I was under the impression that the rulebook sad an IC could not join a unit for deployment ... in which case this clearly overrrides that as its a specfic deployment rule :)

junglesnake
15-03-2007, 22:58
I have to say if some one was taking Azrael I wouldn't stop them having a company champion.

I say this because Azrael is a grand/chapter master and surely that makes his command squad a chapter command squad rather than a company command squad. Which in turn then makes the champion a chapter champion rather than a company champion?

I hope that makes sense, but logicaly why wouldn't he have one because essentially with company masters and grand masters they personaly pick their body guard rather than having them assigned. The champion is picked as the closest of body-guards when it comes to close combat. I have no problem with that in a game.

Thommy H
15-03-2007, 23:08
I can see your point, but the rules pretty clearly disagree with you which is what was being asked. Company Champions require Company Masters...there is no 'Chapter Champion', sadly.