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inq.serge
14-03-2007, 21:32
Lets say I have a cold one knight unit with banner of murder. They are on one end of a table and the WE uit is on the other end (Huging the table edge).

They stand ~40"+ from the wood elf unit. Must I be in charge range to charge them? My cold one unit has a charge range of 14+d6", and I know that I would never reach 40" with them, may I still charge? (For extra movement, and for forceing the opponent to take a fear test, and possibly break.) And may the opponent stand and shoot?

Vogon
14-03-2007, 21:43
No you may not. You may only declare a charge if you have a reasonable chance of engaging the enemy unit.

Vogon

inq.serge
14-03-2007, 21:44
How reasonable?

DaBrode
14-03-2007, 21:50
How reasonable?


If your opponent is saying you are way off...stop cheating and agree not to charge.

Wings of Doom
14-03-2007, 21:51
Reasonable as in you think you will actually get into base to base, without lying. Otherwise you are being abusive of the system and will be deleted (punched by any opponent you try to pull it on).

Vogon
14-03-2007, 21:55
If you "know" that the charge won't rech then you can't declare it. If you honestly beleive it will then you're OK. I would say more than a couple of inches past the charge reach of the unit in question then you’re really pushing it. In your stated case of 14”+D6 then something that looks like 20” or less is fair game for a charge declaration but something as blatantly wrong as 40” I’d just laugh at.

Vogon

DeathlessDraich
15-03-2007, 09:17
How reasonable?

This is an old problem which has now been partially resolved by the new FAQs:

"Q: Can a unit declare a charge against an enemy unit that is obviously out of range etc
A: You must ensure ... Emphasis on ensure...Therefore declaring a charge that you know cannot be completed (like charging a unit 24" away) is cheating"

Since the maximum charging range in Warhammer is 20" this makes an allowable error of 4" in this case or 25% in general by the FAQ rules.

Exactly how reasonable will be up to the players involved. No player will question a misjudged distance of between 0.5"- 1".
but a novice could easily misjudge a distance by a few inches

enyoss
15-03-2007, 09:50
How reasonable?

:confused: Are you asking for permission to stiff your opponent?

It's pretty subjective so I'd go with your honest gut feeling. If you end up being crap at guessing then that's just the way it goes. As long as you genuinely think you can make it then fine. Sometimes you'll gain an advantage, sometimes you'll be at a disadvantage.

The lesson is to get good at guessing ranges!

Cheers,

enyoss

Jonke
15-03-2007, 10:19
I can't see what you would gain. The unit would fail the charge and move 7", fear tests aren't taken until the chargers are found to be within range and stand and shoot is resolved before.

imo deliberately over-guessing charges is cheating.

enyoss
15-03-2007, 10:30
I can't see what you would gain. The unit would fail the charge and move 7", fear tests aren't taken until the chargers are found to be within range and stand and shoot is resolved before.

I think the problem comes with stuff like the Warp Lightning Cannon which automatically flees from a charge.

Cheers,

enyoss

EvC
15-03-2007, 10:36
We'll assume in this example there's a unit of Wood Elves nearby stopping the Cold Ones from marching, so they will indeed get some benefit from the Banner of Murder even with a failed charge.

You may only declare the charge if you think it really is reasonable. You must tell your opponent you think it is a reasonable charge, that you think they're in charge range. I would personally advise against lying like that in a game.

(I was once a whole four inches out of a charge range with some Silver Helms against a Beast Herd which had a hero in it, they fled, didn't rally the next turn and left the table... that made me feel bad enough, so hopefully you have enough character that you wouldn't abuse the rules so badly)

Jonke
15-03-2007, 10:44
I think the problem comes with stuff like the Warp Lightning Cannon which automatically flees from a charge.

That is the exception, but the op was talking about wood elves.


We'll assume in this example there's a unit of Wood Elves nearby stopping the Cold Ones from marching, so they will indeed get some benefit from the Banner of Murder even with a failed charge.

Do you get the extra d6 if you fail the charge? I say no unless specifically stated in the item description.

Peace!

EvC
15-03-2007, 10:50
Yes, I'm not sure if it applies anyway, hopefully it doesn't so such an abuse would be impossible (There's still the WLC exploit of course)...

Gorbad Ironclaw
15-03-2007, 11:23
and I know that I would never reach 40" with them, may I still charge? (For extra movement, and for forceing the opponent to take a fear test, and possibly break.) And may the opponent stand and shoot?


You wouldn't get extra charge range. You would move a normal failed charge move, with no bonus from the banner of murder(go ahead and check it), and your opponent only have to take a fear test if your found to be in charge range.

He would however be free to stand and shoot at you.

eldrak
15-03-2007, 11:41
There are other benefits for declaring failing charges:

Moving things out of the/into the way for other chargers.
Catching fleeing enemy previously out of reach.

Btw maximum charge range in warhammer has not always been 20".

Masque
15-03-2007, 15:08
Btw maximum charge range in warhammer has not always been 20".

Is it 20" now? What if you give the Banner of Murder to your BSB and put him on a Dark Pegasus? Can't he then charge 20+1D6"? Or how about a Bretonnian Paladin and Lord both with the Virtue of the Impetuous Knight in the same unit. Wouldn't they charge 16+2d6"?

enyoss
15-03-2007, 16:06
I'm pretty sure that if you upgrade a Noble to be your Battle Standard he is ineligible to be mounted on a Dark Pegasus.

Not sure about the Bretonnian situation though.

Cheers,

enyoss