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View Full Version : Is 5 pistoliers, 2 cannons, and peg cap w/pistol enough shooting?



gorenut
18-03-2007, 18:00
Currently my army includes 5 Pistoliers, Peg Cap w/pistol and doomfire ring, and 2 cannons. Along with the already mentioned, I have roughly 20 handgunners. I'm planning my army in advance to prepare for plastic Flaggies. I was considering taking out all my handgunners. You guys think that'll cripple my army too much? Other things in my army include 2 blocks of 25 swordsmen with halberd detachments, 20 man unit of greatswords, Ogre Ironguts. What do you guys think?

Oh yea, my common enemies are Khorne, Wood Elf, Dark Elf, Gobbos, and Dwarfs. We usually play 2k games.

Talonz
18-03-2007, 18:09
Seems fine to me, especially with the 20 gunners. It all depends on your opponents and what the rest of your army is doing. You could use another cannon against some of the hard guys, or a mortar against elves and gobbos for example. No cav other than the pistoliers? Makes countercharging a little light but with 2 full state/detachments could be ok. Give it a whirl!

gorenut
18-03-2007, 18:30
Thats the thing.. I'm considering taking out those 20 gunners to replace them with flaggies. Thats why I was asking if 2 cannons, 5 pistoliers, and a cap is enough shooting in an empire army.

RavenBloodwind
18-03-2007, 19:41
I think 'enough' shooting is something you'll have to find your own comfort level with. After all, in a chaos army, no shooting is 'enough' because it's all they can take.

If you have concerns about dropping too much of your shooting, just make your handgunners into detachments for your blocks of state troops. If you've added a pile of flaggelants, you hardly need a few extra halbards in the grand scheme of things.

The only other issue would be your pistoliers. Against Khorne (you mention a regular opponent), having lots of baiting fast cav helps you lead the Khorne-boys where you like. So an extra unit of pistoliers for this purpose (not for shooting) might serve you well.

That Guy
18-03-2007, 20:04
I strongly believe in balanced forces. Artillery, small arms, and magic all have a place. I say that because everything is good at taking out different things.

Big, fully ranked up unit coming your way? Artillery, ho! Fast Cavalry out to get ya? Point some arrows or handguns at them and watch them disappear. Skinks on your flanks? An auto-hitting magic missle will send those T2 gits running.

The point is, have a little of everything, because chances are your opponant will have a lot to threaten you with. I'd say the easiest thing for you to get rid of in your above list is the second cannon. One is fine. Drop it, take ten handgunners and you're in great shape.

gorenut
18-03-2007, 20:13
Ok, that being said.. I'm considering replacing handguns with xbows just for better general purpose small firearms. I think the potential extra turn of shooting might be worth giving up the extra AP (I think 2 s4 shots are better than 1 s4 AP shot). So perhaps what I should do instead is to take out the Halberd detachments and replace them with xbows as detachments (since they don't really have squad upgrades I need if they weren't used as detachments like the handgunners). That'll make room for flaggies.

Mephistofeles
18-03-2007, 20:19
I think it looks fine as it is now, I realise that you want to have the captain, but if I where you I would leave him out instead of taking the handgunners out.

If you want diversity, I think you can take one unit of crossbowmen and one unit of handgunners, and remove the peg captain for some flagellants. You can also take both the captain and 10 handgunners out, and add some more flaggelants, and just use the cannons, crossbowmen and pistoliers as ranged support.

gorenut
18-03-2007, 20:56
The captain definitely stays, hahaha. He is the sole reason why I even started Empire. The thought of some guy flying around in armor with a shield shooting people with a pistol is just so amusing to me. Plus I've already created the model and I just need to paint the pegasus as if he's had some lumps on him due to abuse from his rider (aptly named El Douch'ero).

You're right though.. maybe I'll take out actual squads and just mix handguns and crossbows into detachments to maximise shooting (using them in detachments of 5 or 6 so there are no wasted ranks in the back).

As much as it hurts me.. yea.. I'll probably take out the handgunner squads because I just thought taking a Hochland Long Rifle for each squad was so unique to the Empire.. but in the end, I think it's more of a gimmick since I can get about 3 extra handgunners or crossbows for the same cost (and I don't play vs armies with wizards too often).

Frankly
19-03-2007, 05:52
I really like shooting in an empire army and I think H.guns are better than X-bows. In my Dwarf army list I prefer X-Bows over H.guns.

The reason I love shooting units in empire armylists is that they're cheep units and can deal with heavily armoured units, so they're good units to support your cannons, I think this is more important than ranged for empire, since you already have a good amount of options to deal with average rank and file your ranged support should be focused on heavier enemy units.

Enemy units also love targeting H.gunners, flyers and fast cavalry especailly, this means you can set up failed charges for their fast support or bring them into magic phase range or re-direct them away from your flanks.

If H.gunners have nothing else to do in game than just deplete rank bonuses then they're worth it in a rank and file based army.

They're cheap for what they can acheive.