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JonnyTHM
20-03-2007, 16:09
Okay, I'm looking for advice for someone I know. He wants some help using his army to maximum effect.

I know Ogres are supposed to be a difficult army to play, and so please try to give as much advice as possible.

Consider the following elements to be non-negotiable (why play ogre kingdoms if you're not going to get to use some of the fun stuff [i.e. please don't say: replace everything with naked bulls]):
gorger
scraplauncher
hunter
yhetees

Most games would be 1500 or 2000 points.

Finnigan2004
20-03-2007, 17:08
I'm just painting up my ogres now, so I probably can't offer too much advice due to lack of experience, but try the ogre stronghold-- it's got lots of things on ogre tactics. Lots and lots of ironguts seem to be a good idea though.

Peril
20-03-2007, 18:26
Ok here is what I learned playing OK: there is one mitigating factor that will determine whether you will win or lose games - Panic. If your opponent does not have the means to cause Panic, you will likely be very competitive in almost any scenario. The reason Panic is so important is because 1) even though you are fast infantry, you are still infantry, and 2) You will not have enough useful units of Ogres to afford having one run the wrong direction for a turn and sit and do nothing for another.

To me the Ogre list is all about Panic mitigation. I take Kineater on my Tyrant, the Ragbanner on a unit of Ironguts, and Maneaters (because they are immune to Psych). I also always include a BSB (for those times when I get charged, and because with the Stubborn spell and Maneaters it becomes even better), but some people prefer extra Butchers. I basically always run a Tyrant, a BSB and 2 Butchers (for extra Magic Defense, another thing that can help stop panic).

I used the Gnoblar Screen at first, but gave it up because against good shooting armies it is too slow and while it might soak up a few shots from some handgunners, units on hills and cannons can get right through it to your Ogres. Gnoblars are still useful for sacrificing and capturing table quarters.

Yhetees are actually very very good. They still suffer from panic issues, but being able to go through ANY terrain at M7 is extremely awesome. They never fit my theme so I didn't include them, but they rock no doubt.

I wish the Hunter and the Scraplauncher were good choices, but they are not. The Hunter would be fine except that as an Ogre you are already spending lots on characters and typically don't have the slots to waste on the guy. He looks cool, and allows more Gnoblar Trappers which is cool, but I cannot personally bring myself take him over a second Butcher or BSB. The Scraplauncher is fun, but not terribly useful. I never feel like I have the points for such a luxury.

Gorgers are cool, but take two or take none. I ran a list with Skragg and 4 Gorgers, which was totally sweet. The problem with one is that you cannot count on it for anything. At least with two you have a pretty good statistical average of getting one in soon enough to affect the battle.

In the end, unfortunately playing Ogres became a game of running as fast as you can at the enemy as soon as Ogrely possible and pray that you don't panic. If I succeeded, I could usually win. If I panicked anywhere, I lost an entire section of the board, would get surrounded and lose. I did not like playing that way or what I had to do list-wise to be competitive (I felt hamstrung by the choices I had to include), so I stopped playing the army.

Dooks Dizzo
20-03-2007, 18:36
Panic has NEVER caused me problems at all.
However I have NEVER won a game either.

Break tests and cavarly and shooting and magic and break tests and never being able to get off a decent charge and break tests and flying units are what get me.

Not Panic.

Peril
20-03-2007, 21:12
For the record: I was able to get to 2 wins 2 draws and a loss type of record at tournaments. (edit: meaning while I did alright with Ogres at tourneys, I am by no means the uber Ogre guru.)

I take 4 units of 2 Leadbelchers with Bellowers. They are great for handling most flying things other than a Dragon, and are also nice for fleeing with. They don't take up much space so you don't panic your own guys as much, and you can reload after rallying. They can also flank/break rank, which is nice. I also take 2 units of 2 Maneaters, to pin something down until a bigger unit arrives if necessary. I use the Toothcracker spell liberally when I think I may lose a couple of combats by a large margin (say, vs. Brets)

Maybe its a regional thing, but I face a lot of shooting and magic, so panic is a bigger issue for me.

kainthedragoonx
20-03-2007, 21:59
the guy at the LGS takes the bulls on Rhinos or whatever...tough as nails to deal with...a unit of four of them, with standard and champion is pretty good. They rampaged through my Dwarf army in two turns. It's expensive, but it works.

DaBrode
20-03-2007, 22:21
the guy at the LGS takes the bulls on Rhinos or whatever...tough as nails to deal with...a unit of four of them, with standard and champion is pretty good. They rampaged through my Dwarf army in two turns. It's expensive, but it works.


Rhinox Riders. Recently they were banned in tournaments however mine are on the way and I'll be damned if I ain't using them regularly.

Peril
20-03-2007, 22:44
They're awful expensive for a LD 7 unit. They are good if you can get them in where you want though. Dwarves are well equipped to deal with them, they should be ashamed :p

WARHAMMERED
21-03-2007, 00:40
I know a bit about ogres. I have a good win record, even though when I started them people said I was not going to win. 'Anyhoo' what you should take and not take if you want a competitve army list:
Should takes:
IRONGUTS: A solid unit, they dont cost much more than bulls but are alot better. Try and get alot of these.
BUTCHERS: The single thing that lets us ogres win battles. Seriously these are awesome, high wound and can regenerate a wound a turn easily, awesome suppotive magic and good destructive magic. Dont leave home without one. Competitive army usally use 3 in their 2k list.
YHETEES: The ability to make up for what ogres lack is in these beasty's, Speed, these guys can move through rough terrain and chase and flee 3d6. Pricy, but worth it.
TENDERIZING TYRANT WITH LONGSTRIDER: This is another guy who kicks ass. He only moves slightly faster but chases and flees 3d6. This guy should always be equipped with the tenderiser, st 8 and d3 wounds is Awesome, especially when combined with longstrider.
Dont takes:
Maneaters: look good on paper but anything they can do 2 IG's can do better. Cost too much for their worth.
Hunters: Again costs far too much for his worth, also and more importantly uses up a hero slot where your butcher should be.

Everything else is up to you, but the things I pointed out should help if you want an army that wins. Hope this was helpful, give some feedback.

Bull
21-03-2007, 01:03
Also if you really want an army that will more than compete in every aspect of the game, replace the tyrant for Scragg, they're around the same points cost and suddenly you dominate the magic phase instead of just competing in it. This also allows you to use lots of Gorgers and they rock!

I have 4 Gorgers in my list so in turn 2 you have 2 on the table looking at the rear of plenty of units and they can't run away so if you want to stick something in mud, they're your beasts! Also as the game goes on Scragg kills stuff in c/c and they gain attacks and other special rules!

I haven't lost yet (haven't played more than a dozen games though) and this combination is the key to why.

JonnyTHM
21-03-2007, 14:59
Thanks for all that advice! Is there anyone that can give more info as fasr as tactics beyond army composition?

Avian
21-03-2007, 19:02
I have an Ogre Kingdoms Tactics page (http://folk.ntnu.no/tarjeia/avian/subpage.php?s=index_ogre_tactics), which contains a fair number of articles, if you are interested in that.

Finn Sourscowl
21-03-2007, 19:39
I have an Ogre Kingdoms Tactics page (http://folk.ntnu.no/tarjeia/avian/subpage.php?s=index_ogre_tactics), which contains a fair number of articles, if you are interested in that.

This should be compulsory reading for anyone starting OKs. It helped me a lot when I started. Big thumbs up to Avian for some very thoughtful and useful articles!

Important
21-03-2007, 20:45
I am starting an army aswell and have to say all these posts helps! makes me think more I play for fun and can loose but wants to win once in a while! ;)

purple40k
21-03-2007, 20:57
thanks a ton avian! that was some really good reading.

i have a question related to the original poster's questions. are gorgers worth the points? i can see removing 2 of them from a list and being able to add 5 bulls. with their cost and limit on 2 in 2000 points are there better anti shooting units and tactics that can be used for the points? with the points i could buy a bsb bruiser, and basicaly alot of stuff.

thanks for the advice.

Bull
21-03-2007, 21:43
My personal opinion is that yes they are, as you find that the low ld value on most ogres is a sever hindrance the Gorgers once in combat wont go away, so from a tactical point of view they're great. They can't charge when they come on but they can soak damage that could be going into your other units and if you lose them then so be it, but they can take out weapon crews with ease, or you can stick a unit of bretonian knights in place for an entire battle with a single Gorger. They will usually make their points back.

Avian
22-03-2007, 13:06
i have a question related to the original poster's questions. are gorgers worth the points?
Against a shooty army I would definitely say it is. Against an army that comes against you, they are not so interesting. A rule of thumb, though: One Gorger is for fun, two Gorgers is when you mean business.

CarlostheCraven
22-03-2007, 21:21
Hi

I am going to provide a counterpoint to the comments regarding hunters and maneaters .

The hunter himself is not all that impressive - very cool looking, high Ld, and a semi-useful bow, make him OK. However, it is the Sabretusks that make him absolutely fantastic - equip him with longstrider and you have one of the best mage/war machine hunting units in the game. The tusks' combined 6 Ws4 St 4 attacks on a single wizard in a unit can be game breaking. I usually run one hunter, though I have thought about running three just to see how devastating all those turn 2 charges could be.

Maneaters are gold, provided that you have an Ogre BSB within 12", for that all important Stubborn 8 reroll.

Cheers,
Carlos the Craven

Magistrate
23-03-2007, 07:17
I don't know jack about Ogres ( despite having a whole mess of them.. ) but it is my understanding that I'm automatically at a disadvantage with them because they can't get any bonuses for having deep ranks?

Weapon
23-03-2007, 07:43
I don't know jack about Ogres ( despite having a whole mess of them.. ) but it is my understanding that I'm automatically at a disadvantage with them because they can't get any bonuses for having deep ranks?

They can, but they arent as useful in deep ranks, since they are still taking a ton of damage from shooting, and will still panic. Using small units of naked bulls is a lot more useful because the enemy can't focus on one big unit to shoot at, and you are bound to hit them with a decent charge.

purple40k
23-03-2007, 09:09
for most ogre players, do you find yourself choosing between a kineater tyrant or a bsb brusier? which one do you take and why? at the cost of 2 butcher and a kineater tyrant, i find myself thinking the bruiser just isnt worth it.

i fail to see a good reason to take maneaters over gorgers. i like the look of maneaters but their cost is just so prohibitive...

Croc Dundee
23-03-2007, 10:23
Hi all,

I have been using Ogres for nearly 2 years now, and win pretty much everygame I play (tho struggle against Wood Elves?!)... saying that, everygame I learn something new to use in my next game, and so on... I love Ogres, always a pleasure using them!

What I have found out / my gospel in every game:
I never use Gnoblers! Ogres are big brutes, so I pack plenty of Ogres!
I use more Bulls than Ironguts
6 Bulls fully loaded are rock hard, and 'only' cost 308 points
I use 2 Giants when I can
Skragg - need I say more
Gorgers are the way forward (especially when combined with Skragg)
Units of 2 Leadbelchers are great flankers
Unit of 2 Rhinox are rock hard flankers

A recent 2500 game I played, I used: Skragg, 2 Butchers, 3 units of 6 Bulls (loaded), 4 Gorgers (as they now [Skragg] count as 2 per special choice), unit of 2 Leadbelchers, Giant, 2 Rhinox Cav... I played a mates Chaos, and he did have some unlucky rolls, but I basically walked through him, and was pretty much over by turn 4...

You have got to be aggressive with them! I can't stress this enough. Turn 2, you can be pretty much half way up the table. I played once, against Woodies, played hesitantly, and got mashed... he basically sniped at me, using 2 or 3 units picking on a single, or cut off unit... a quick and steep learning curve!

Also, Gut magic can be relentless, so use that to your advantage! If your rolling 4/5s on a D6, that means it will likely take 2D6 to dispell it... so then use another Butcher to cast the same spell!

Use your speed, and raw power, and make sure you get your bull charges, and with Iron Fists, you can get 13 S4 hits (from a unit of 6 / 3 front rank)!

I hope it helps,

Avian
23-03-2007, 12:35
I don't know jack about Ogres ( despite having a whole mess of them.. ) but it is my understanding that I'm automatically at a disadvantage with them because they can't get any bonuses for having deep ranks?
What does that matter? Chosen Chaos Knights don't normally come in ranks, but does that mean that they are a bad unit? No, it doesn't.

And Ogres can get rank bonuses just the same as everyone else, the cost is just normally far too high for it to be effective.



for most ogre players, do you find yourself choosing between a kineater tyrant or a bsb brusier? which one do you take and why? at the cost of 2 butcher and a kineater tyrant, i find myself thinking the bruiser just isnt worth it.
At 2500 pts I tend to take a Kineater Tyrant, a BSB and two Butchers. At 2000 pts I usually drop the BSB and just go with the Fistful of Laurels on my Tyrant. With Ogres, I tend to find that it is easy to spend too many points on characters and it is better to go for more models.

ScreamingDoombull
28-03-2007, 01:08
I've noticed several people utterly despise the gnoblars. Why is this? I can see the argument against their speed, but I find two large units, spread wide, as a screen will allow more ogres to to close with the enemy without taking an abundance of hits from warmachines, gunlines, etc. Plus, they can be used to redirect charges and bait charges. Anyone else use gnoblars, or am I on my own with this?

Bull
28-03-2007, 05:01
I like having 2 minimum sized units of gnoblars to place in each corner of my deployment and to forget about...

Stops me having to worry about the victory points for those table quarters and allows me to get on with the job at hand.