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Piet
27-07-2005, 14:55
if i make an conversion is it legal to change the base size to a bigger base. for example, i convert a vampire lord on a steeds using parts of archeon especially the demonic steed. must i place him on a normal cavaraly base or may i use the base where archeon is fielded with. and how does this work in a game?

McMullet
27-07-2005, 15:03
I believe there was a WD/Chronicles/FAQ on this - basically, there are certain standard base sizes for certain model types. The guideline is whatever the standard GW model comes on, so if you want a VC on a nightmare, you have to use a normal cavalry base according to the rules. If you wanted to use a 50mm monster base for aesthetic reasons, personally I would be fine with that. You could also put him in a unit of Black Knights and say that half of his base counts as one of them or something.

TeddyC
27-07-2005, 15:16
my recollection is that you can increase the base size but not decrease it..... well i cant find anything i nchronicles 2004.... the way i see it if you are decreasing it you are having the same amount of attacks but cant be attacked as many times back. (you still do overkill.... eg kill 4 models but only in contact with 1 still would kill 4 models)

Increasing it doesnt change your possiblility of killing , if anything it increases the enemys chance (more attacks can be directed at you).

Thats how i see it. im sure someone will correct me if i am wrong.

Piet
27-07-2005, 15:44
but when you have a larger base size you can block some line of sights wich you normaly woulden't block.

also sometimes you see that flying units gets based on a square base in stead of the normal round see through base. what are the rule about this?

McMullet
27-07-2005, 16:04
I'm pretty sure that flying units still have to be on a 40mm square base, even if they're on a flying base - you normally get a 40mm base in the blister, which is a giveaway... I generally stick the stalk of the flying base into the square base and don't bother with the round part at all. Warhammer needs square bases for combat, so it's usually best to stick with them; I don't know how you'd figure out how many models were in contact with a round base.

Also, with your larger base, I think it would be important to make sure you tell people that this seemingly monstrous mount on a 50mm base is in fact just a normal mount, because I can imagine it would look pretty imposing! This might cause people to concentrate on killing/avoiding it, when in fact it posed little threat. Either that, or give it some wings and call it a winged nightmare.

EvC
27-07-2005, 17:04
I didn't have a 50mm base to put my winged nightmare conversion on, so I used a 40mm base. But I arm my general with the Talon of Death which causes auto-wounds to enemies in base-to-base contact, so I'm really the only one who loses out from this.

enyoss
27-07-2005, 18:53
there are some other magic weapons for which having more models in base contact is a definite plus. a mate of mine used the TK sword Destroyer of Eternities which does 2 S10 attacks on everything in base contact and gave it to a guy on a chariot... before realising it was limited to 'on foot only' for exactly this reason! shame i didn't spot it until too late :cries:

i wouldn't be too bothered if you used a monster base if the model needed it as long as it wasn't exploited to your advantage. as long as everyone plays fair it shouldn't be a problem.

cheers,

enyoss

anarchistica
27-07-2005, 19:58
there are some other magic weapons for which having more models in base contact is a definite plus. a mate of mine used the TK sword Destroyer of Eternities which does 2 S10 attacks on everything in base contact and gave it to a guy on a chariot... before realising it was limited to 'on foot only' for exactly this reason! shame i didn't spot it until too late :cries:
Er, they're just 2 S7 hits that can inflict a Killing Blow.

You must use the base as listed on the Base Size and Unit Strength chart (see my sticky in this forum for a link). If this Vampire Lord is intended to be on a Nightmare, you have to base him on a cavalry base (25*50 mm).

Flame
28-07-2005, 07:29
Cavalry bases are 25*50 mm.

IF you base the conversion on a bigger base than normal, I would simply put markers onto the base to show where his actual 'legal' base is, and this usually solves most problems.

proximity
28-07-2005, 09:12
Just do it - and have a spare base ready incase you actually come up against someone anal enough to have an issue with it.

Cenyu
28-07-2005, 10:52
Base Sizes and Unit Strength (http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer/base-chart/1/) - might prove useful to have a look at.

Lady's Champion
28-07-2005, 14:46
My quarrel here is if the bigger base is in a unit less ordinary men can be hit which is unfair on the opponent

Selsaral
28-07-2005, 15:59
Besides, a model on a 50 mm base in a unit of cavalry adds essentially 2 spots to the unit - 2 in the front rank. This WILL add to the number of ranks you get. So a model on a 50 mm base with 6 knights can rank up 100 mm wide and get 2 ranks.

Further, a model on a 50 mm base in a unit of cavalry can be picked out individually as a target.

So it really does matter what base size you put them on. It's not just cosmetic, and my understand is that you CANNOT legally change the base size of your models for purely cosmetic reasons.

TeddyC
28-07-2005, 17:59
Just do it - and have a spare base ready incase you actually come up against someone anal enough to have an issue with it.

BONG

x2. Unless you go to a tourney with it i cant see anyone really objecting

EvC
28-07-2005, 23:41
Er, they're just 2 S7 hits that can inflict a Killing Blow.

You must use the base as listed on the Base Size and Unit Strength chart (see my sticky in this forum for a link). If this Vampire Lord is intended to be on a Nightmare, you have to base him on a cavalry base (25*50 mm).

Winged Nightmare, i.e. it should technically be on a 50 x 50 base, when it's on the smaller 40 x 40 base.

On the off-chance that anyone will ever complain about it though, I think I'll cut out a square of cardboard 50 x 50, and if someone ever demands that it should be on a bigger base I'll slide it on top.

Plus of course I'll be sure to make sure that my opponents get the proper amount of attacks back against the model (I wouldn't however take as many Talon of Death auto-hits unless they're in base-to-base- it's my penalty).

anarchistica
29-07-2005, 19:22
Winged Nightmare
I was talking about the first post, of course:

i convert a vampire lord on a steed