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Black Behemoth
23-03-2007, 02:56
Can anyone give me any tips on how to use a HoC Slaanesh army consisting of a lot of fast cavalry and other fast-moving models?

I was thinking of using the following, but I do not know how it would work tactically on the battlefield itself.

- Chaos Lord or Sorcerer w/ Steed of Slaanesh
- Mounted Daemonettes
- Chosen Knights w/ Rapturous Standard
- Marauder Horsemen
- ETC.

And how could I use the wonderful magic of Slaanesh to my advantage in terms of inflicting flank and rear charges?

Voss
23-03-2007, 07:06
What do you really need to know? Chosen and Lord kill things, everything else cleans up the mess and slaughters flankers (and keep enemies off the flanks of your killy units).

Go for a weak point in the line and then roll up the flank.

As for the magic...
I draw your attention to Titillating Delusions. An enemy unit goes where you want it to. Useful if you come across something you don't want to fight head on, or that can charge you.

Enrapturing Spasms is also good. Target unit does diddly-squat. It shuts down everything except fleeing and other involuntary movement. Moving, shooting, magic, hand to hand. Its not even 'remains in play'!

Use the two spells together, tie up two big units. That will screw up enemy plans but good.

Luxurious Torment is also useful. Frenzy some enemies, then draw them out with Marauder Horse. On your following turn, hit them in the flank with something nasty. Or if they're really weak and you can keep out of reach, let them mill about, killing themselves.

Frankly
23-03-2007, 11:52
Looks like a frighting list.

It depends on how you want to run your list.

Are you going to weaken his defenses and target support units first with your fast element and try flank larger rank and file units?

Are you going to wear him do with magic?

Are you going to sledge hammer him with knights and support fast cav?

The way that you think your armylist is going to target your opponent is going to dictate your unit choices.

Hywel
23-03-2007, 15:06
I don't mean to be lazy, but this thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73176) has my thoughts and those of others on this matter, it would be relevant for you to give it a read.

Selsaral
23-03-2007, 16:06
Watch out for the extreme fragility of mounted daemonettes. Thirty points a model, 3T, 1W. Against shooty armies it's hard to keep them alive. Screen them madly with beast herds.

gjnoronh
23-03-2007, 22:34
It's quite effective but fast cavalry require some experience to use to their fullest. If you don't know how to use fast cav you are going to have a pretty solid learning curve. The key with slaanesh magic is distinguishing the RIP spells from the non RIP. You can do some nice combinatinos between the different options.

There are a couple folks over on swords of chaos that make use of such a list.

Consider posting it there for more advice

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/SwordsofChaos/

SlaaneshSlave
23-03-2007, 22:57
Cast frenzy on your opponents. They might let you once or twice.

Making a character charge mounted demonettes is nice with their tongue attack.

Having ANY unit charge your knights with the banner is a good thing. I'd rather have knights, ogres, elite troops try to hit me on 5's, than take another turn of missile fire (magic & normal).

I've really liked putting characters in chariots. A fun one is a sorcerer with a berserker blade. Then you have a wizard with full casting abilities, a 2+ save, WS5, Str 4, & at least 3 attacks.

The other "best of both worlds" is a wizard lord on the boobie snake with the demon sword. Your opponent might not fear a wizard on their flanks until the 6 Str 6 attacks come out.

And invest in a LOT of hounds.

orson28
24-03-2007, 01:05
I am also a fairly new Warhammer player and had a different question on mounted Daemonettes. I was thumbing through the Hordes of Chaos book and I don't see anywhere in print where it says you can mount Daemonettes. Where are these stats coming from, and are they universally allowed or does your gaming group have to OK them?

Sorry in advance if my reading comprehension is lacking and I am missing something very obvious!

Hywel
24-03-2007, 01:25
Mounted daemonettes were added to the list after Hordes of Chaos went to print. You can find the rules here (http://uk.games-workshop.com/download/download.htm?/hordesofchaos/mtd-daemonettes/assets/mtd-daemonettes.pdf) and they are entirely playtested and legal, requiring no permission from your opponent or tournament organiser.

I recommend one unit of 6, they're the first unit down on my army list! :)

orson28
24-03-2007, 04:50
Great! Many thanks Hywel!

|twynsic|e
24-03-2007, 04:57
re. Luxurious Torment, does anyone have any experience on casting it on their own unit? A unit of 6 mounted daemonettes with 3+2 poison/strikes first attacks each seems very nasty

laughingman
24-03-2007, 07:00
re. Luxurious Torment, does anyone have any experience on casting it on their own unit? A unit of 6 mounted daemonettes with 3+2 poison/strikes first attacks each seems very nasty

dont do that, unless the daemoneets are going to die that turn anyway. they take d6 str 3 hits as long as they have freenzy each turn.[dice0]

Black Behemoth
24-03-2007, 15:15
Is it difficult to pull off such an elaborate tactic of using fast cav? I'm new to Fantasy, so I know it will be a steep learning curve.

Would I need some Marauders as well? It appears to me that cavalry is expensive, so I may need some rank and file troops to give me some numbers. They may be left in the dust, but you could see them as "reinforcements" and as a front assaulter to give ranks to my flanking cavalry. They probably won't do much damage, but they would be there for rank purposes. How many units would I need, if any?

Hywel
24-03-2007, 16:02
Static CR is a nice back up and available quite cheaply through marauders. Problem is, they'll be a soft target unless suitably supported by characters/other units and if you're trying to focus on supporting the slowest unit in your army, you lose your speed.

If you really want to go with a fast slaanesh army you just have to accept you can't do some things, its the drawback of an angled list. Points are at a premium as it is, so you can't really afford to make token efforts at covering bases.

If you're desperate for static CR it is achievable in the fast list, to some degree. War banner should come as standard on your main knight unit and a beastherd is always a welcome addition that can just about keep up with its banner, 2 ranks and outnumber.

When it comes to static CR, you should be worrying about denying it to your opponent, rather than finding it for yourself.

Black Behemoth
24-03-2007, 17:47
The problem is that without the static res, I have nothing to fall back on.

Can the War Banner be used in conjunction with the Rapturous Standard?

Are Spawns good to use as tarpits? Or should I use the points in more cavalry?

Are lots of Horsemen or lots of Knights better?

Are the Horsemen better outfitted for offense (flails) or defense (light armor, shields)?

Are Chariots good for this type of list?

Note that I am willing to sacrifice full speed potential for balance, for the sake of being competative.

Caligula
24-03-2007, 19:04
I'm in the same boat, wanting to make a fast Slaanesh list...so far my 2000 point force is looking like this...

Exalted Sorcerer of Slaanesh
lvl 4
Steed of Slaanesh
Chaos Daemon Sword
@420pts.

Exalted Champion of Slaanesh
Enchanted Shield
Berserker Sword
Steed of Slaanesh
@210pts.

Sorcerer of Slaanesh
lvl 2
Barded Chaos Steed
Dispell Scroll
Spell Familiar
@196pts.

6 Knights of Slaanesh-
Chosen
Standard Bearer
War Banner
Champion
@355pts.

6 Marauder Horsemen
Flails
Musician
@96pts.

6 Warhounds
@36pts.

6 Warhounds
@36pts.

6 Warhounds
@36pts.

6 Warhounds
@36pts.

Beastherd-
8 Gor w/ additional hand weapons
12 Ungor
Musician
Standard Bearer
Foe-Render
@139pts.

6 Mounted Daemonettes
@180pts.

Chariot of Slaanesh
@130pts.

Chariot of Slaanesh
@130pts.

TOTAL-2000pts.

Hywel
25-03-2007, 01:35
The problem is that without the static res, I have nothing to fall back on.

Yes you do. Tactics and speed. Preferably outnumbering (in terms of units, not models). Static CR is what infantry excels at. Sure you can have best of both worlds - that's the balanced list. If you think that suits you better than a cavalry army, go for it - but don't do so because you think an army without static CR can't win regularly: mine won a tournament, though admittedly meeting two gunlines significantly helped! :p


Can the War Banner be used in conjunction with the Rapturous Standard?

Assuming the presence of a BSB, of course.


Are Spawns good to use as tarpits? Or should I use the points in more cavalry?

The jury is out. Some people love them, some people don't. Personally I like them and slaanesh spawn can keep pace (more or less). They effectively have a 360 charge arc which is fantastic at foiling enemy flyers and skirmishers. An idea I've been toying with is taking 3 or 4 and shutting a flank with them while my cavalry pours down the other... problem is I prefer pincer movements.


Are lots of Horsemen or lots of Knights better?

Depends entirely on what you're trying to achieve. I'd say a balance is best. Remember there are lots of options available that are neither of these units...


Are the Horsemen better outfitted for offense (flails) or defense (light armor, shields)?

They have one job. Charge flanks and remove rank bonus. Units of 5/6 with flails and a musician are the boys you want. I don't see the point in any other setup.


Are Chariots good for this type of list?


Yes. Despite the fact they struggle to keep up, they still have that 14" charge range which moves them up the board fairly rapidly. They are also excellent support for all the other units in your army or can work in a pair on their own fairly well. Furthermore, they will add to the confusion of shooty enemies - they don't have time to shoot up your knights and your chariots. Cannons aside, chariots can soak up a significant amount of missile fire and they're just as effective on the charge with 1 wound as they are with 4. Not so for knights.

Black Behemoth
25-03-2007, 05:58
Would a Chaos Lord or a Daemon Prince w/ Master of Mortals be better? The Lord has better armor, but the Prince can fly, strikes first, and causes terror.

Briohmar
25-03-2007, 12:06
Would a Chaos Lord or a Daemon Prince w/ Master of Mortals be better? The Lord has better armor, but the Prince can fly, strikes first, and causes terror.

I find that in 2K you really don't need a lord. I just use an exalted and 2 Sorcerors. I have been playing with various iterations of a fast attack Slaaneshi Cavalry list for years now, and I love it. The army I'm taking to a tourney next saturday is my normal Characters, 5 Chosen Knights, 5 Regular Knights, 2 units of marauder horsemen, 6 Mounted 'Nettes, 6 furies, two units of 5 hounds, 3 Minos of Slaanesh, and 2 Fiends (Spawn) of Slaanesh. In this configuration, you truly have the best of everything, your slowest moving unit is M6, so you can dominate the movement phase, you have a super hard hitter (chosen) three hard hitters (Minos, knights, and Nettes) 2 throw away/screeners (hounds, excellent for releasing fanatics early in the game, or bait and flee tactics, let's face it 30 points lost ain't gonna hurt, and sometimes they do great things), two very good flankers (markorse) and two really nasty tarpits/mage assassins (spawns). With 7 PD, you have a good chance of getting spells off each turn, and it is truly a wonder when the enemy's toughest unit stands still and lets you hit it, or moves off to one side allowing you to hit it in the flank and/or rear.
In essence, I find the all cav list works very well with Slaanesh, more so than with any other god.

Hywel
25-03-2007, 18:44
I second Briohmar's comments that a lord in 2k is really not necessary and is a huge investment of your points. I tend to run with simply an exalted on boobworm and a single sorceror, though I have experimented (somewhat successfully) with an exalted daemon as well and a basic great weapon wargor in a beastherd is an excellent use of points.

Be aware though that it is your units which will win you the game so the more you can invest in them, the better.

Black Behemoth
25-03-2007, 19:55
The only problem with Exhalted Champs is that they have a very low limit for taking extra goodies. They probably don't need much as they have good stats anyway, but the Pendant/Blood Blade combo can't be used.

To a question similar to my first, is an Exhalted Champ or Exhalted Daemon better?

Briohmar
25-03-2007, 20:03
The only problem with Exhalted Champs is that they have a very low limit for taking extra goodies. They probably don't need much as they have good stats anyway, but the Pendant/Blood Blade combo can't be used.

To a question similar to my first, is an Exhalted Champ or Exhalted Daemon better?

It really depends on what you want the character to do. I have had a lot of fun with both, but if you want a hard unit, then an exalted champ in a unit of knights. If you want a truly inspiriational mobile character that will very likely die if used poorly in combat, go with the Daemon, but the daemon can also be a spell caster so has its separate missions.

I'll tell you the ultimate nasty unit, however is 5 chosen knights with Rapturous standard, an exalted Champion with Berserker sword, just to be really nasty cast the frenzy spell on them. I squared off with three units in one game, just waiting for which one was gonna move first, then blasted through them and came around from behind for the others. Just think about it, you get 5 attacks from the exalted (thats base, expect at least 2 more from the berserker sword, we'll call it 7, then 4 for the champ, and 12 more for the rest, that's 23 attacks hitting on 3's, then add in the 12 more attacks from the frenzied horses (before you say it, yes the frenzy spell will effect the steeds here, as only Mark of Khorne specifies the steeds don't get the extra attack, the spell is different (Rules as written)) also very likely hitting on 3's. It's almost back to the basic Khorne Knights of 5th edition.