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mikeydanuke2003
24-03-2007, 08:02
Okay, I am playing an Empire Nation (Nordland) in a Campaign being conducted at one of the Hobby Stores here in town. I am fairly new to Warhammer, and usually do try a sort of Hammer and Anvil setup, The hammer consisting of mobile troops (Knights, Outriders, Pistoliers) and the anvil (Gunline, blocks of infantry, artillery, and handgunners)

I've also been experimenting using a Steam Tank. The first battle I used it in, against an Orc army, I tried using it as an additional artillery piece (in the hammer force), but it misfired both times it fired, resulting in self-inflicting 5 wounds, at which point it sat out the rest of the battle.

The second battle, fighting Necra Vampires, I used it as a battering ram (in the Anvil force), and it was awesome. I managed to get a charge into a skelton unit's flank with the steam tank, in conjunction with a charge from some spearmen, and the Skeleton unit suffered 13 dead (?), 10 from impact hits from the tank. That also set me up for a second charge into another skeleton unit, and in conjunction with a swordsmen's unit charge. This time the Tank did 17 impact hits.

1st charge was using 5 Steam Points
2nd charge was using 8 Steam points

I was impressed. I might have to buy another Steam Tank for my army.

MDN

WanderingRogue
24-03-2007, 08:20
how did you get 8 steam points!!!!:eek:

your only allowed 5.

mikeydanuke2003
24-03-2007, 09:34
Wow, Wanderer, in preparing to reply to you I re-read the rulebook gain and realized that I had in fact done the Steam Tank incorrect.

Somehow I thought you generated steam points and added the die roll to it.

Glad you spoke up, could havge saved me a very embarrssing encounter if I ever make it to a tournament.

Thnaks

Now that I know, I need to spread the word around to the rest of the crowd. None of them play Empire, so no Stem Tanks have been used before, thus none of the experienced players caught it. Might have changed the battle a little through.

Toodles
MDN

blahblahblah
24-03-2007, 16:12
mikey, did you have questions about using the steam tank? I was just wondering what you're looking for in this thread so we can narrow down what to say...:)

yarrickson
24-03-2007, 16:37
Steam tanks rock, is that what your after. Because I agree completely. It'll be interesting to see next years grand tournament results to see how all these 2 steam tanks and Karl Franz on Dragon armies do. (I say all, I still have yet to see one, but everyone i know is talking about how hard an army it is, and everyonecant be wrong, Can they?;)

mikeydanuke2003
24-03-2007, 20:16
Dear blah

No, I did not have a specific question about Steam Tanks, was just making a general observation about a tactic I thought was neat, but turns out I had it wrong. Now I know better and will use my steam tanks correctly in the future. I also spread the world to my gam,ing group about the ST effectiveness, so they have at least been told.

I think I might indeed go with two Steam Tanks in large battles. With a max possible "Charge" of 15"s they could hit most infantry formation before the infantry was in charge range, and it appears that against low toughness troops the effect of their Impacting could be pretty devastating. Some cavalry, on the other hand, if they were really good at guessing range, could get in charges. This would, of course, put the ST in the "Gunline" force deployment.

At 300 pts a piece through, I think they are too expensive to be tossed out on a battlefield unsupported. In fact, in the batle I was talking about, I was using the tank to support the infantry, and vice versa, which seemed to work fairly well. In both cases the tank charged with infantry, and even after "correcting" the battle results, I still won both melee's (The gamemaster decided to "penalize my army by a few points to correct things...)

MDN

sulla
25-03-2007, 00:28
Now that they have been depowered, I see them like any other large monster; Powerful, but not powerful enought o win fights alone. I think more and more people will learn to support them as you do and you will see them come back into the empire's arsenal again.

There's just a little gap at the moment where the people who used them as gamebreakers on their own are having trouble getting the best out of them on the battlefield (much like hellblasters).

wildkarrde0
25-03-2007, 00:36
ive seen the new steam work better when use as a charoit to surpport infantry and knights in the empire army

one i've seemn with the hellblaster is add a master engineer to the gun giving bs 4 making that much more leathful but still having its old weakness of roll 3 artillary dice

blahblahblah
25-03-2007, 01:02
Lol, that's cool :D I think the model is neat, but I'm not sure how often I'd use the tank if I had one. I've had it used against me dozens of times (though not yet under the current rules) and just the way it psychs people out by being on the board can be priceless, but at 300 points I have a hard time adding it to my army lists. Every time I think of getting one a little voice keeps telling me tha for the same price (points-wise) I could have for example, a unit of 20 spearmen, a mortar and 5 more knights or other variations thereof. It's a cool option for the empire to have, I'm just not sure in my case if it wouldn't just sit gathering dust most of the time. :(

Shank
25-03-2007, 02:56
Steam Tanks add spice to a Empire Army. Sure, there are other things you could get for 300 points, but there is nothing else like it in the game!
My one piece of advice, never fire the cannon! Only on say turn 5 or 6 and the shot is just to good to pass up. For the most part, just roll over stuff and don't be too careful with it!

kiron
25-03-2007, 05:27
actually, in my experience, the steam tank is the ONLY thing in the empire that can go unsupported! I seen it take 2 straight up lance charges from 2 units of 12 knights of the realm at the same time and live only suffering a minor 2-3 wounds (which is AVERAGE!) the cost of misfiring a cannon. Then halt two hammers for the rest of the game while slowly grinding them with 2 steam points a turn and laugh as their puny str 3 hits does nothing to toughness 6 and 1+ AS! Finish of the laugh on the 5th or 6th turn when rear/flank charge the knights. U can charge ANY infantry with the tank unsupported which is just sickening. Though i would steer clear of dwarf slayers, they're just nasty. Dragon ogres are risking, u better break them on the first go and STAY clear of nasty heroes/warmachines!

Deathknight
25-03-2007, 18:03
Steam tanks rock, is that what your after. Because I agree completely. It'll be interesting to see next years grand tournament results to see how all these 2 steam tanks and Karl Franz on Dragon armies do. (I say all, I still have yet to see one, but everyone i know is talking about how hard an army it is, and everyonecant be wrong, Can they?;)

Question. I have seen a couple people talking about 2 tank army builds at tourney level. Have they changed the points for tourneys to 4K? Last time I looked at the rules for Stanks it stated you can have 1 for every full 2k points. Or has there been some change I missed?:confused:

larabic
25-03-2007, 19:19
They are just rare choices so you can have 1 for every 1000 points...which is a bit silly but whatev....

Deathknight
25-03-2007, 20:31
I can understand them being rare slots. Doesn't mean you can fill them both with tanks though. The new Stank rules are pretty specific about just having 1 for every full 2k points. Anybody in the Empire care to comment...:confused:

Hywel
25-03-2007, 22:14
There is absolutely nothing in the newest rules to suggest you can only have one per 2000pts. It is a rare choice, simple as that.

You are aware the Empire recently had a new army book, no? :eyebrows:

Deathknight
25-03-2007, 22:32
There is absolutely nothing in the newest rules to suggest you can only have one per 2000pts. It is a rare choice, simple as that.

You are aware the Empire recently had a new army book, no? :eyebrows:

Yes, I'm aware of that. And the new Stank rules came out also to complement it I believe. Sorry, I don't have the AB. But are the tanks rules in it? I don't think they are. But I could be wrong. But at the GW empire section they state "One notable exception from the NEW Empire army book was the Steam Tank." Hence, the rules for "Empire tanks" And here it specifically states under rare unit, top of Pg 2, in BOLD letters, NOTE THAT YOU MAY INCLUDE ONE EMPIRE TANK FOR EVERY FULL 2,000 POINTS IN YOUR ARMY. Seems pretty clear to me too. Would you care to share the rules that state otherwise?

Mad Makz
25-03-2007, 23:28
Yes, I'm aware of that. And the new Stank rules came out also to complement it I believe. Sorry, I don't have the AB. But are the tanks rules in it? I don't think they are. But I could be wrong. But at the GW empire section they state "One notable exception from the NEW Empire army book was the Steam Tank." Hence, the rules for "Empire tanks" And here it specifically states under rare unit, top of Pg 2, in BOLD letters, NOTE THAT YOU MAY INCLUDE ONE EMPIRE TANK FOR EVERY FULL 2,000 POINTS IN YOUR ARMY. Seems pretty clear to me too. Would you care to share the rules that state otherwise?

In the NEW Empire army book, released this year. :)

Deathknight
26-03-2007, 01:23
In the NEW Empire army book, released this year. :)

So the new tank rules are in the AB. My mistake then. Could you tell me what pages the rules for tanks are on so I can check them out at the local store?

Archaon
26-03-2007, 10:05
Man.. just grab the book and leaf through it. Shouldn't take more than 5 seconds or will the wrath of the shop owner come down on you when you open a book without buying it?

sulla
27-03-2007, 04:59
IMO, one of the best uses for it (if you are not facing a lot of enemy artillery, anyway) is to move the STank to get a flank shot at heavy cav and/or elite infantry. That mobile cannon shot can be very... mean.

damiengore
27-03-2007, 18:07
In my experience you should NEVER fire the cannon:

1. It's a waste of steam points
2. with a 1 in 6 chance of doing D3 wounds to yourself it's a HUGE risk to take.

The STank should only be used for the following purposes:
1. Terror
2. Locking up scary units that have limited ability to damage it, always avoid units led by lord level characters or any heroes that could potentially have ST 7 (S 6 still has less than a 25% chance of causing a wound per attack).
3. Dissuade chariots from coming near.
4. Psychological weapon- It's hard for the STank to kill it's points in enemy but it rarely gives up more than half it's own
5. Draw fire.

If you use it as a mobile cannon you will be dissappointed and ussually end up doing more damage to yourself than the enemy.

Hywel
27-03-2007, 23:37
So the new tank rules are in the AB. My mistake then. Could you tell me what pages the rules for tanks are on so I can check them out at the local store?

Pg 50-51 for the rules.

Pg 79 for Rare Units.

I assure you neither place mentions restrictions beyond being a rare slot. :)

mikeydanuke2003
28-03-2007, 01:53
My own personnel experience with ST's leads me to the belief that I would only fire the cannon if there was a real good chance of doing some damage, like say an enfilde fire down a line of Knights or Ogres. For straight damage, I'd opt for the battering ram tactic.

Toodles
MDN