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View Full Version : The new magic rules.... whats ur experiences?



Da Boyzz
24-03-2007, 23:01
Ok i searched but couldnt find any threads on this subject. I was just wondering, are there any new major disadvantages and has it made magic now bad?
I am particular curious from a chaos perspective.

So tell your stories, on how u think the new rules are:

Angry Lawyer
24-03-2007, 23:02
Pretty solid, I'd say. You can no longer really use mages as a cheap source of magic dice for other characters, now, though, but magic-heavy armies definately seem to still be able to kick my backside.

-Angry Lawyer

the1stpip
24-03-2007, 23:27
I find I roll more miscasts now, but that is just down to luck I guess.

Heretic Burner
25-03-2007, 00:09
The new magic rules have pretty much shattered the O&G magic phase completely. Granted you could blame the complete lack of foresight of the army book designer's in anticipating this, however its just one of many problems with O&G (some even more devastating) so in many cases gets overlooked. It shouldn't. Wiping out an entire phase completely from being used is beyond ridiculous. Quite frankly it is bad all round.

My Empire army hardly notices the change. With multiple lores to choose from, I can strategically select lores with decent casting values to make good value of every dice from every wizard. It just seems to be O&G that have been hit hardest.

Aelyn
25-03-2007, 00:21
The new magic rules have pretty much shattered the O&G magic phase completely. Granted you could blame the complete lack of foresight of the army book designer's in anticipating this, however its just one of many problems with O&G (some even more devastating) so in many cases gets overlooked. It shouldn't. Wiping out an entire phase completely from being used is beyond ridiculous. Quite frankly it is bad all round.

My Empire army hardly notices the change. With multiple lores to choose from, I can strategically select lores with decent casting values to make good value of every dice from every wizard. It just seems to be O&G that have been hit hardest.
I have to say I don't see how the O&G have been hit hardest by the new magic rules.

I can see how THEIR new magic rules have weakened their magical abilities, but I think the new magic rules in general have actually affected the Greenies least. Why would you say it's hit them hardest?

adreal
25-03-2007, 01:10
New magic rules hmm, well for my TK they arn't affected, promting cries of cheese, but I just shrug.
The new magic rules havn't really affected any of my elves either, even going magic heavy, but I am wary of the miscast table.
I have seen magic stop a VC army totally run over me when I'de brung no mages to couner his magic, so all in all I'de say balanced

Hywel
25-03-2007, 02:04
I absolutely adore them. It makes more of a thinking mans game as no longer are hero level mages there as batteries for their better comrades. Now one must consider what each wizard can do. The scroll caddy is no longer as attractive as a level 2 with one scroll and a bound spell/powerstone etc.

The movement of bears anger to the first spell in Amber is also a delight for my armies. With my empire a character receiving bear's anger and a priest's hammer of sigmar is outstandingly tough and for my chaos.. a beast shaman with bears anger is a force to be reckoned with.

It also makes non-mage specific dice a premium ability. Tzeentch has become relatively much improved as a result, as has the elven banner of sorcery (I do believe?).

Personally I'm all in favour.

Alathir
25-03-2007, 02:36
I think the new magic system is fantastic in every way. It toned down the magic phase significantly, which it was in dire need of.

It can still be a force, but not as devastating as it used to be. Now magic does what it should do, support the army, not the only other way around.

Shank
25-03-2007, 03:13
The new Lores are real nice. It used to be before that it was "Heavens" magic then everything else. Now all of the lores seem to be equal and more fun. Big change was wizards can only use power dice they generate. Really makes you think when you are casting spells.

Weapon
25-03-2007, 07:08
New magic rules hmm, well for my TK they arn't affected, promting cries of cheese, but I just shrug.
The new magic rules havn't really affected any of my elves either, even going magic heavy, but I am wary of the miscast table.
I have seen magic stop a VC army totally run over me when I'de brung no mages to couner his magic, so all in all I'de say balanced

If people are calling TK cheese, then they are just terrible at the game.

Rioghan Murchadha
25-03-2007, 08:28
The new Lores are real nice. It used to be before that it was "Heavens" magic then everything else. Now all of the lores seem to be equal and more fun. Big change was wizards can only use power dice they generate. Really makes you think when you are casting spells.

Actually, it makes you think in the army building phase too. Makes you think of just how worthless a lvl 1 mage actually is. They may as well have made the cheapest mage a default lvl 2. Given that generally your highest lvl mage is going to use the 2 'generic' dice most of the time, as he has a larger repertoire, and thus usually the higher casting cost spells as well, a lvl 1 mage is hard pressed to cast most spells on a single d6.

Now, keep in mind that I'm an avid proponent of magic, and believe that it should have just as much of an impact as movement, shooting, or hand to hand, so my views will naturally clash with those of the camp who insist on playing fantasy as though it was a historical wargame rather than a fantasy one.

(For the record, I play Dogs of War with no mages, and used to run a large infantry HE army, also with no mages, I just enjoy getting blasted by magic in a fantasy game.)

gorenut
25-03-2007, 08:37
I think it's definitely better. So many more options and actual uses for mages now. It's just surprising why they didn't do this before. Now you have the option to have lvl 1 if you just want scroll caddies. If you want to actually cast spells, you take a lvl 2. You notice more differences with levels now.

I agree on O&G, but I think that is just poor design on the book and not the fault of the redone magic phase.

Vattendroppe
25-03-2007, 09:19
I think the new miscast-table is really nice, that way you can't rely to much on just magic, to unstable. The new lores is also nice, IMO they balanced it up nicely (and you don't see every darn army fielded with lore of heavens).

vinush
25-03-2007, 09:56
What's so bad about O&G?

I haven't got my book with me, and people keep complaining about it, so what's the deal?

\/ince

Wings of Doom
25-03-2007, 10:42
I think the new magic rules are certainly an improvement over the older ones. One of the armies I play most often being Tzeentch mortals, I'm grateful for the nastier miscast table and no battery mages.

Onisuzume
25-03-2007, 11:24
I guess it has hardly effected me at all.
Miscast? Who cares. 4th+ generation Slann.
No power dice donating? I get an extra dice for each spell I cast.(2nd generation Slann) And I can still use the skinks for LOS.

Briohmar
25-03-2007, 19:50
What's so bad about O&G?

I haven't got my book with me, and people keep complaining about it, so what's the deal?

\/ince

The problem with greenskin magic is that the little Waagh spells are harder to cast than the big ones. Goblin Shaman suffer terribly trying to cast anything more than the basic spel or headbutt. Whereas Orc Shaman have a much easier go at it.

Aelyn
25-03-2007, 22:09
The problem with greenskin magic is that the little Waagh spells are harder to cast than the big ones. Goblin Shaman suffer terribly trying to cast anything more than the basic spel or headbutt. Whereas Orc Shaman have a much easier go at it.
I fail to see how that's a problem when you have Magic Mushrooms available to Night Goblin Shamans, meaning you can make a good stab at a spell every turn (two dice gives you about a 40% chance of casting an 8+) and if you really need a spell to go off you can just Mushroom it in.

As for 'Eadbutt, Goblin Shamans can't even try to cast it - it's a Big Waagh spell.

I've found two level 2 Shamans, each with one or two Mushrooms, plus the 'Itty Ring on a hero gives you a very reliable magic phase.

WLBjork
25-03-2007, 23:38
I'll find out how painful tommorrow.

3 Skink priests with 3 Comets, Uranon's Thunderbolt, Forked Lightning and Portent of Far between them. (Yes, I need to worry about Comet - my opponent has a habit of scoring well :( - he's the sort who could roll 5D6 and get a total of 36!)

These support 3 Slann Mages - 1 with all spells except Gift of Life from Lore of Life (2nd Gen.); 1 with 4 Lore of Death spells (Doom and Gloom and Drain Life for definate, can't remember others)(dunno what gen.) and the last with Sword of Rhuin, Burning Head, Transmutation of Lead and Molten Silver.

Yes, we're playing an 8K. I just hope 11DD (+1 stolen) is enough. Love my Dwarfs magic resistance!

gjnoronh
25-03-2007, 23:44
Overall the system is much better than in sixth - magic is toned down, and the armies whose fluff says they would be unusually proficient at magic now are (Lizardmen, HE, Tzeentch come to mind) because everyone else is relatively less powerful.

mtw1983
25-03-2007, 23:50
O&G mainly suffer because they cant have mages outside of units if they don't want them to be shot. And if they do put them in units and the unit squabbles (1/6 chance) then it cant do ANYTHING till the next turn, that includes dispel.
So you'll regularly have a 250+ point handicap for one turn a game. Thats why O&G are no no for magic now

Aelyn
26-03-2007, 00:51
I'll find out how painful tommorrow.

3 Skink priests with 3 Comets, Uranon's Thunderbolt, Forked Lightning and Portent of Far between them. (Yes, I need to worry about Comet - my opponent has a habit of scoring well :( - he's the sort who could roll 5D6 and get a total of 36!)

These support 3 Slann Mages - 1 with all spells except Gift of Life from Lore of Life (2nd Gen.); 1 with 4 Lore of Death spells (Doom and Gloom and Drain Life for definate, can't remember others)(dunno what gen.) and the last with Sword of Rhuin, Burning Head, Transmutation of Lead and Molten Silver.
You play that you're allowed to choose spells for characters? You know that normally you need to roll on the spell list to see what spells your wizard knows, right?

O&G mainly suffer because they cant have mages outside of units if they don't want them to be shot. And if they do put them in units and the unit squabbles (1/6 chance) then it cant do ANYTHING till the next turn, that includes dispel.
So you'll regularly have a 250+ point handicap for one turn a game. Thats why O&G are no no for magic now
Ah yes, I see your point - it's dangerous to rely on Lord-level wizards in Orcs and Goblins unless they join Black Orcs or a unit with a Black Orc character. Thankfully, I never take a mage worth more than 125 pts in an Orc and Goblin army of less than 3000 points (when 135 is the max for a NG shaman, it's not surprising!), so it's not a huge problem there either - losing one spell is annoying, but it's not really a major problem, and it only happens once every one and a half turns on average tops.

Also, what do you mean, that includes dispelling? The Animosity rules state the unit and characters can't do anything (including cast spells) that turn, but I see nothing that would imply they don't add the dispel dice to the pool as normal, or to suggest they can't use scrolls in the opponent's turn.

TheWarSmith
26-03-2007, 04:15
I think the new magic rules are certainly an improvement over the older ones. One of the armies I play most often being Tzeentch mortals, I'm grateful for the nastier miscast table and no battery mages.

Tzeentch armies don't really use battery mages in the first place. Tzeentch doesn't get hurt nearly as bad because where most armies only have 2, maybe 3 dice to allocate to mages beyond what they generate themselves, tzeentch armies can have MUCH more in the pool to spread around(depending on how many marked units). Also, with the "pseudo mandatory" staff of change", you rarely need to worry about your uber lord eating it from snake eyes on the miscast table(reroll dem ones).

I'm also confused why OG is hurt by any combination of their army book and/or the new magic rules(is it because if mages are in units that squabble, they can't cast? If that's even true, don't have an OG book)

mtw1983
26-03-2007, 05:14
Yeah If they're in the unit that squabbles all they can do is add dice, no scrolls, no bound items nada!

And yes they can go in black orcs but thats usually around 270 for the unit and at least 230 for the mage so like 1/4 of your points in one unit. and then you have LD 8 max for the rest of the army, so you NEED a BsB which is more points in 2 characters that are combat fodder.

So really its not that you can't with O&G its just very pricey in a competitive list to do so.

TheWarSmith
26-03-2007, 05:43
The alternative is to not place your mages in units that can squabble.

It's risky due to targetting rules that 7th changed, but you can have him run around on his own.

Felworth
26-03-2007, 06:49
Eh, just put the shamans in units led by Black Orcs. Worst comes to worst you get in combat and the enemy has to fight through the shaman's heavy armor wearing/double choppa wielding bodyguard to get to him.

That or the Black Orc shoves the shaman out into a challenge against the deadkilly chaos lord of doom so he can concentrate on chopping up said chaos lord's bodyguards. Yeah know, whatever seems appropriate for the time...

mtw1983
26-03-2007, 07:51
Actually the black orc in a normal unit with the shaman is an even worse idea, then you have the 230 point shaman, 150 point black orc, and a 180 point unit in your center.
If Black orcs weren't so god awful expensive this edition then it'd be an easy choice. As for me when i use black orcs its in 9 strong flanking units to the main boys, still keeps the shaman safe and only like 135 points to boot.

WLBjork
26-03-2007, 08:56
You play that you're allowed to choose spells for characters? You know that normally you need to roll on the spell list to see what spells your wizard knows, right?

I'd feel better if they were picked, but they were his rolls, we started setting up on day 1 (Sunday, yesteday) to play on day 2 (Monday, today) (setting up takes some time, with about 15-20 regiments per side ;))

Onisuzume
26-03-2007, 09:53
Yes, we're playing an 8K. I just hope 11DD (+1 stolen) is enough. Love my Dwarfs magic resistance!
Against 3 Slann?
I doubt that the 11+1DD are enough.

And I wish that my group allowed the picking of spells instead of rolling them.

Avian
26-03-2007, 10:55
Problems with Orcs & Goblins magic:

- The greenskin Miscast table is worse than the normal one and they have no way of avoiding Miscasting. This is especially bad for high-level Shamans. In the old days, the extra Power dice that greenskins got made up for the worse Miscast table, but now the two are no longer in any proportion to each other.

- It is more important to put Shamans in units now and that makes the poor git much more vulnerable to squabbling, panic and/or getting splatted in close combat. Generally, your shamans will be ineffective for at least one turn out of every six and with two shamans, this means that on average you will have two turns in every battle where very little casting can be done and your opponent can easily manage.

- The basic Goblin spell is pretty much worthless and the chance of having no usable spell in a magic phase for a Goblin Shaman is quite high. And you can't transfer those useless Power dice to other Shamans who need them in this edition.

- Out of 5 greenskin Arcane items, two are suicidal, two are monstrously overpriced and the last one is plain dull and all defensive.

- All Goblin armies will have less magic dice available to them (unless they take the suicidal Magic Mushrooms or the overpriced Power Stones) and yet their spells are on average more difficult to cast than Orc spells.

- Both Bound spells available to the greenskins, which you will need if you are going to get much of anything through the enemy magic defense, have a very real chance of knocking the bearer down to 1 wound, which gives away a great amount of VPs.

- It is very easy, cheap, risk-free and dull to go all defensive in the magic phase. Black Orc BSB on boar with the Spirit-totem and a lvl 1 Night Goblin with the Staff of Stealin' / 2x Scroll works like a charm, but it is dull, dull, dull.



I blame Mat Ward. :(

Aelyn
26-03-2007, 11:26
Yeah If they're in the unit that squabbles all they can do is add dice, no scrolls, no bound items nada!
Animosity only affects the unit on their own turn. There's nothing to suggest they can't use scrolls on the opponent's turn.

I agree that Greenskin magic has got worse this edition, like most of the Greenskin stuff, but I disagree that it's due to the new Magic rules - it's due to their new book.

And I love my Magic Mushrooms. The number of times it's 2+ to get a spell off that wouldn't be cast otherwise makes me feel they're one of the best items in the new book.

The Dark One
26-03-2007, 13:37
Actually the black orc in a normal unit with the shaman is an even worse idea, then you have the 230 point shaman, 150 point black orc, and a 180 point unit in your center.
If Black orcs weren't so god awful expensive this edition then it'd be an easy choice. As for me when i use black orcs its in 9 strong flanking units to the main boys, still keeps the shaman safe and only like 135 points to boot.

how many points are you spending on a shaman, 230pts is just to much.
i just take 2 level 2 shamans (1 orc and 1 night goblin) and they are still keeper then your 1 shaman.

magic is better in this edition and miscasts are a lot more fun

VampireOfKhorne
26-03-2007, 14:13
I like the new miscast chart, them actually doing something aside from ending the magic phase is much more fun, though i think the "2" result is a bit over the top.

I would be fine with no dice sharing, if they had removed the silly rule that your wizards must generate totally random spells every game. Having 130 points and a hero slot of uselessness because you rolled your lores 2 worst spells is extremely annoying.

The new lores are what I expected from GW. The old super-lores (heavens, life) being completely nerfed, while the lores that absolutely sucked (mostly metal) now have some very OTT game winning spells.

Avian
26-03-2007, 14:24
how many points are you spending on a shaman, 230pts is just to much.
i just take 2 level 2 shamans (1 orc and 1 night goblin) and they are still keeper then your 1 shaman.
A lvl 2 Orc and a lvl 2 Night Goblin is 185 points combined with no gear at all, so it cannot possibly be significantly less expensive unless you decide to go completely without magic items.

wildkarrde0
26-03-2007, 14:25
the result pof not over the top the chance of rolling it is preetry slim althought i've done it once on my wizard lord. over the chages have very good while magical attack is still very viable its also possible not have to run with tons of mages more and more i see armies either running one or two cady's with lord and hero or a lvl4 with 3 heros as for not having to have your gobblin shamen in unit Foot of gork doesn't need line of sight its only the best gobblin spell anyway and its lets coward in the back corner to cast with impunity plus the O&G misscasts are't as nastry as the standad one yes you still can die from it but its effects sometimes does stop your magic phase at all in conclusion cause i could keep ranting magic still can be very very powerful however the all mage armies out except Lizzrads ( like I said could rant more Slanns grrr) therre much more risk and the mages allot of the time need some sort of guardor atleast a unit champ to be slaugter to protected them while the rules might brought it back completely into balance its very good start

Rightnow
26-03-2007, 14:43
It seems that a lot of O&G players aren't too happy with the changes in the new O&G book. The old book was a goblin oriented list, this book is a orc first list. Remember that the goblin shaman shouldn't be as good, because you are paying fewer points for him. Remember too that the orcs are the focus of this book. GW stated this specifically. It shouldn't be a no-brainer to take a goblin shaman over an orc shaman.

Before this edition of the book I saw an orc shaman across from me, on the battlefield, once! Everyone else used the Goblin shamans because they were better for the points.

The list is orc centric. Goblins were too good for the points in the last edition.

Talking about dull, I saw the same goblin shaman set up over and over again in orc armies from last edition.

Sureshot05
26-03-2007, 14:59
It seems that a lot of O&G players aren't too happy with the changes in the new O&G book. The old book was a goblin oriented list, this book is a orc first list. Remember that the goblin shaman shouldn't be as good, because you are paying fewer points for him. Remember too that the orcs are the focus of this book. GW stated this specifically. It shouldn't be a no-brainer to take a goblin shaman over an orc shaman.

But this is just bad design; a good O&G book should have left the choice to the player. As it stands Avian has shown that it is far too easy to go magic defensive and forget about the magic phase all together.

The problem is the O&G book is an ORC and goblin book. A good book (like the new Empire book) should enable a player to customise an army to the style he finds fun and enjoyable. For me, the book was huge disappointment for what should have been one of the star armies (given it was in the BfSP box).

Apologies all for the rant, but I'm still horrifically disappointed with the O&G book.

On topic: The new magic rules I've found in general a lot more balanced. I now take my Empire to the field with a pair of different mages each week as the lores have become more fun and the risk of mis-cast feels about right.

TheWarSmith
26-03-2007, 15:30
A lvl 2 Orc and a lvl 2 Night Goblin is 185 points combined with no gear at all, so it cannot possibly be significantly less expensive unless you decide to go completely without magic items.

NG/orc shamans are 150 points base(+35 for lvl 2)?!%!%^ That's the most expensive wizard EVER. Even my tzeentch exalted champions are less(180 at lvl 2).

Aelyn
26-03-2007, 15:45
NG/orc shamans are 150 points base(+35 for lvl 2)?!%!%^ That's the most expensive wizard EVER. Even my tzeentch exalted champions are less(180 at lvl 2).
That's 185 points for BOTH level 2 wizards... :D

The Dark One
26-03-2007, 16:13
A lvl 2 Orc and a lvl 2 Night Goblin is 185 points combined with no gear at all, so it cannot possibly be significantly less expensive unless you decide to go completely without magic items.

no items, don't see the point in them. they make charectors to expensive

Elannion
26-03-2007, 17:34
I kinda agree with Rioghan Murchadha, i am not over fond of it. Its abit unbalanced with the worst armys not really being effected and peanalising the more moderate ones.

The one good thing is that there is more reason to buy a level 3 or 4, but thats really only because there is less point in having lvl2's and there is almost no point in level 1's.

WLBjork
26-03-2007, 20:30
Against 3 Slann?
I doubt that the 11+1DD are enough.

And I wish that my group allowed the picking of spells instead of rolling them.

It was 'till turn 3 (as far as it got thank goodness). First 3 spells cast on 15 on 3 dice - 6,5,4 every time. Was not amused! Two miscasts by my opponent (both on 4th gen or older Slaan :mad: ) and one irrisitable dispel by me sums up the rolling really.

Mind, my opponent played his magic really badly today, throwing 2D6 at spells he usually uses 3D6 on.

And just to be clear the spells were rolled and not picked.

explorator
27-03-2007, 01:42
I am in favor of the new magic rules so far as my limited experience allows. As a VC player I have had luck using a Master Necro (lvl 4) and three Necros (lvl 2) in a 2000 point list. I agree with the general consensus that lvl. 1 Wizards are good only as scroll caddies. I have not found the new miscast table to be an impediment to taking lots of magic, though I do throw fewer dice per spell than I used too, so it has had a small impact on how I play my magic phase. I really love how the eight lores of magic seem much more balanced than in 6th ed. and I have noticed players taking a more diverse mix of spell lists.

vinush
27-03-2007, 08:28
I still can't see the problem.

The new magic is great in my opinion. I am now making myself 2 more battle wizards, a jade and an amber one. I've never really liked those colleges much, but now with the new rules they are much better.

Let's face it, magic's a dangerous thing, and as such, miscasting this dangerous thing should be extremely hazardous to ones health. The new miscast table represents this well.

\/ince

Avian
27-03-2007, 13:04
I still can't see the problem.
If you are limited to lore(s) with less useful spells, then the new system creates some problems, because you have a relatively high chance of having no useful spells to cast with a low-level wizard and you can now not transfer those two useless PD to another spellcaster.

In fact, the new system makes upgrading level 1 and level 3 wizards even more compulsory than before (unless you are going all defensive), because it is now more important than ever to have a good selection of spells. I had some hopes of a system where level 3 wizards would have a decent reason not to take the 35-point level upgrade.



Remember too that the orcs are the focus of this book. GW stated this specifically.
Whether or not it was intended to make a book with a lot of redundant character and unit choices is really not worth arguing over, though we are all in agreement that this is what we got, yes?

The army has just gone from a situation where some units and characters were clearly more cost-effective than others, to a situation where other units and characters are more cost-effective than others. Still skewed, but in a different direction. The Orcs AND Goblins army book still does not have internal balance, because it was written by a guy with little talent in that area and insufficiently playtested.

Heretic Burner
27-03-2007, 23:41
I have to say I don't see how the O&G have been hit hardest by the new magic rules.

I can see how THEIR new magic rules have weakened their magical abilities, but I think the new magic rules in general have actually affected the Greenies least. Why would you say it's hit them hardest?

Specifically the loss of power dice due to animosity squabbling. Without a general pool of dice, thus transferrable to other shamans when one is busy arguing with the boyz, they flat out lose those dice. That is handing the equivalent of free dispell scrolls to your opponent, likely every game from every shaman you take! This is a massive imbalance in a game of points value, and a specific 7th edition problem. Take an army that can have its magic phase virtually nullified not only by a miscast but also merely by rolling a 1 tested every single turn all game long - well you clearly have an army that has no business using magic at all.

Yes the book harmed them almost every way possible, that much is obvious (Avian has graciously taken the opportunity to just begin to touch on the tip of the iceberg). However, they've also been clearly hurt by the 7th edition general magic rules as well.

Kimi
28-03-2007, 14:29
I've not noticed the new magic rules. It's still too random, still to unreliable, still easy to get rid of. No one really uses it at all in my group. My 2000 point Empire list is going with about 9 dispel disc (Warrior priests, Arch lector, wizard with rod of power) and nothing really gets past.

I use bound items for my magic. I've got seven in my army (priests, lector, items, throne, stuff). Far more constant and usable.

MarcoPollo
29-03-2007, 05:58
I agree with Avian here. It seems as though you need to have 2 spellcasters in order to get all you can out of the power dice pool. If you have a weak lore, then you can't get out of it what you want.

Also, tzeetch magic is now very tough as the units produce common power dice and can really pump up a lord.

Sanjuro
29-03-2007, 12:40
Also, tzeetch magic is now very tough as the units produce common power dice and can really pump up a lord.

Too bad the spells themselves are quite lacklustre compared to, say, the lore of Slaanesh (or even lore of Shadows).

VampireOfKhorne
29-03-2007, 13:48
Too bad the spells themselves are quite lacklustre compared to, say, the lore of Slaanesh (or even lore of Shadows).

Several tzeentch units with undivided or slaanesh casters could be quite effective then.

Da Boyzz
29-03-2007, 13:55
I am definatly going to run Lore of Slaanesh on 1 wizard and Lore of Shadows on the other.

I think this edition, they are the best 2 lores in the game.

cookiescrumble
29-03-2007, 13:58
I really like the new magic rules, espically how the pools are split.

It is alot better that each wizard only has his dice he can use. I usually take two shamans in my Orc army, one Night Goblin and the other an Orc. Usually I would only have one but two make better use of the pools.

Elannion
29-03-2007, 14:34
I've not noticed the new magic rules. It's still too random, still to unreliable, still easy to get rid of. No one really uses it at all in my group.

Surely that means you have noticed it? because apart from the few people who want to drop it for whatever means, most armys should have magic in them because its an equal part of the game.


I agree with Avian here. It seems as though you need to have 2 spellcasters in order to get all you can out of the power dice pool. If you have a weak lore, then you can't get out of it what you want.

I would possibly go a step further and say that your pretty much limited to 2 (at most 3 with a good law) low level spell casters, if you actually want to reliably use those dice.

vampires are cool!
29-03-2007, 17:40
Makes dwarfs a damn sight harder to kill. Magic res and the like is becoming more potent. Still it is nice to see level 2 wizards actualy doing some damage and acting independantly of their mighty level 4 master.