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View Full Version : 2000pts of Chariots, Herds and Minotaurs! Take a look!



WhiteStar
28-07-2005, 12:34
The story is of two cast out shamans that were cast out from their tribe. They have concentrated their efforts in gathering a tribe that will once again take back the lands from which they were banished.

They have travled and ambushed races all over the known world, taking especially chariots as prizes. They are here for revenge, so let the conquering begin!

Beasts of The Night

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Heroes
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Bray Shaman Gothror @ 125 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided; General; Magic Level 1
Dispel Scroll x 2
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Bray Shaman Largogr @ 125 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided; Magic Level 1
Dispel Scroll x 2
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Core
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3x5 Chaos Warhounds @ 90 Pts
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11x Tuskgor Chariot @ 935 Pts
Mark of Chaos Undivided
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2x8 Beast Herd (Gors) @ 230 Pts
2ndWeapon

1 Foe-Render @

8 Ungors @
Spear
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2x7 Beast Herd (Gors) @ 216 Pts
2ndWeapon

1 Foe-Render @

8 Ungors @
Spear
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Special
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2x3 Minotaurs @ 276 Pts
GW's, MoCU
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Casting Pool: 4

Dispel Pool: 4

Models in Army: 85

Total Army Cost: 1997

The warmachines...A big threat or merely a nuisance? It depends on what kind of machines there'll be and in what amount. But here a couple of thoughts regarding shooting.

I play dwarves as my second army, and I know a thing or two about cannons.

1. An army usually features 1 cannon only, maybe some boltthrowers.

2. By turn three, the warmachines get assaulted and my chariots get to assault. That means, a maximum of three cannonshots (assuming he gets first turn), resulting in some...maybe two broken chariots to worry about. If he gets a misfire...I get maybe two cannonfree turns, anyway, he is unable to put a BIG dent with his warmachines unless he gets unreasonably lucky. Boltthrowers without runes won't instakill chariots, they make D3 wounds - which isn't enough to kill of a chariot.

3. The dogs will possibly engage the warmachines on turn two, giving them in the worst case one turn of shooting.

Lots of if's and maybe's on both the pro and con side - I however think that he has too many targets. That's (with all the units on table) 20 units/targets...

A big thing to remember is that I don't have any single juicy expensive target. Chariots are 85 a piece, the Minos some 135 and the heards are about 120. Without banners the herds will not give an extra 100 VP when destroyed. On top of that, almost any kind of shooting (excluding Organ Guns and Hellblasters) is quite useless against them since they move in skirmish formation.

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I do however think that raising zombies and using Vanhaels Dance to engage them could pose a threat. BUT, I have 4 scrolls for the first two/three of his turns to eliminate the most critical of his spells.

So more ideas, suggestions and most of all critique on the army and problems it will face besides fear/terror causing enemies. Theough remeber that the chariots bear the mark of Chaos Undivided (re-roll all ld tests).

Thanks for replying!

WhiteStar
29-07-2005, 05:36
I played a game with a 750 pts version of this list against VC yesterday. To my dismay...I lost. I fielded 5 chariots, two herds (12/8, 11/8) and a Wargor. The only problöem was that my opponent fielded: a Blooddragon Hero on Winged Nightmare and had two lvl 2 Necromancers and two units of skeletons. He had 7 powerdice in 750 + boundspell Vanhaels Dance and I had two dispeldice. He managed to get alot of new units that he charged in my flank using Vanhaels dance, aswell as replenishing units I didn't manage to break. I guess this was one of the worst enemies I could possibly have faced due to the overwhelming magic, one terror causing guy and the rest causing fear...

What I came to realize was: plan the way you use your chariots way in advance. His winged nightmare wouldn't have been flying around as much had I used my chariots a bit more wisely. Using them in groups can be hard, but the key is not to spread them out too much.

In 2000pts I'll have more herds, chariots, hounds and the Minotaurs. We'll see how I'll fare then.

Comments on the list and results are welcome!

RaZeR
29-07-2005, 09:27
i can understand that the lack of magic hurt you at 750, but that doesnt mean its a bad list overall :)

i quite like it, i think its more interesting than the usual... you are right though, you do have to work out a good way to use the chariots together, otherwise you are screwed :)

gortexgunnerson
29-07-2005, 13:07
Well if you play in a tournment you'll hand over your background and your oppenent with laugh that the army is supposed to have background/be themed so expect that, but then again what competive army is truely themed

Problem with the army is that anti chariot weapons are pretty much take as standard and the low US of your army. If one of the beast herd breaks it will be a lot of panic checks against Ld7 although with the reroll you are semi protected against this.

With my dwarfs I would have a field day against this same with my empire but other armies such as Elves might have difficulty due to their lack of str7 weapons. Which is basically the deciding factor of your army. You play dwarfs/empire/undead/WE etc you get creamed. You play other armies thiers a good chance you win. Your skill element is totally removed.

On a tactics idea I would drop it down to about 5 chariots as your not really going to have space for 11 chariots on a board with lots of scenery. Maybe get a few more beast herds, those guys are just too good for the points you pay.

Also rememebering the range of cannons, you just deploy it on a flank and bounce it through 2 or more chariots a turn. With so many large bases you will have to bottle neck to go through gaps in the scenery an thats when a well placed cannon shot will finish off your army.

A unit of 2 that can capture table quarters or objectives would be useful too as warmachines are generally excluded which could cause you a problem in any non pitched battle game.

But I think if you dropped the chariots to a sensible number you could expand on the idea and make it really cool like if you got lots of non beastman chariots and swaped in crew and tuskigors and could maybe swap a few beast herds for empire free compnay and say they are mercenaries etc

Hannibal
29-07-2005, 14:29
With my dwarfs I would have a field day against this same with my empire but other armies such as Elves might have difficulty due to their lack of str7 weapons. Which is basically the deciding factor of your army. You play dwarfs/empire/undead/WE etc you get creamed. You play other armies thiers a good chance you win. Your skill element is totally removed.

Sorry, but I doubt! Have you ever played against such an army? I doubt, too. The chariot army of death works wonders even against cannon heavy armies. How much cannons do you normally field? 4 is the max you can! gainst ELEVEN chariots! you need 3 rounds of shooting to blast them all. nd 3 chariots are strong enough to break ANY infantry unit.

No no, this army is strong it is strong against nearly everything. The only thing I would change is:
- include a unit of screamers, 3-4
- include some hounds, 2 units of 6 to redirect cavalry units
- mayby a giant for fun.

The first 2 points will increase your army by only loosing 2 chariots.

hannibal

Freak Ona Leash
29-07-2005, 14:46
Well if you play in a tournment you'll hand over your background and your oppenent with laugh that the army is supposed to have background/be themed so expect that, but then again what competive army is truely themed

Problem with the army is that anti chariot weapons are pretty much take as standard and the low US of your army. If one of the beast herd breaks it will be a lot of panic checks against Ld7 although with the reroll you are semi protected against this.

With my dwarfs I would have a field day against this same with my empire but other armies such as Elves might have difficulty due to their lack of str7 weapons. Which is basically the deciding factor of your army. You play dwarfs/empire/undead/WE etc you get creamed. You play other armies thiers a good chance you win. Your skill element is totally removed.

On a tactics idea I would drop it down to about 5 chariots as your not really going to have space for 11 chariots on a board with lots of scenery. Maybe get a few more beast herds, those guys are just too good for the points you pay.

Also rememebering the range of cannons, you just deploy it on a flank and bounce it through 2 or more chariots a turn. With so many large bases you will have to bottle neck to go through gaps in the scenery an thats when a well placed cannon shot will finish off your army.

A unit of 2 that can capture table quarters or objectives would be useful too as warmachines are generally excluded which could cause you a problem in any non pitched battle game.

But I think if you dropped the chariots to a sensible number you could expand on the idea and make it really cool like if you got lots of non beastman chariots and swaped in crew and tuskigors and could maybe swap a few beast herds for empire free compnay and say they are mercenaries etc
Er, could you try to type more clearly, it would make it easier to understand. And this army would be creamed by Dwarfs/Empire/HE? A Dwarf army would have some trouble with this list unless you used all Thunderers and Cannons. Even then he would murder you on sheer weight of numbers. A Empire army would be well-matched against this, even they cant field that many cannons. And I'm not sure if HE can even cream any army, let alone this. Undead could be a prblem but Undead are a problem for everyone, aren't they?

gortexgunnerson
29-07-2005, 17:36
Yer sorry about my rambles my written English is very poor

My Dwarfs have 1 cannon, 2 runic bolts, stone thrower and 40 missile troops with a fear causing block of ironbreakers.

My Empire have 2 great cannons, mortor and 2 hell blasters.

The if deployed correctly you can hit more then one chariot a turn with a cannon and it will take you 3 turns to get in a charge. I also will get plus 1 to see who goes first. And i meant and think I typed WE for wood elves not high elves which I think would struggle. As wood elves can just hide and I don't think chariots could go throw difficult terrain like woods.

Also 3 chariots vs Dwarf irobreakers gives you an average of 13.5 Str5 from impact. Gives just under 9 wounds, then 6Str 5, 3Str4, 3Str3 attacks results in alittle over 5 kills. Without even attacking back my unit has 3 ranks, outnumbering, banner, a rune of battle on the unit and a rune of battle on the BsB. So I win combat without even having to fight with the Lord. I know this will cause lots of replies that its unfair to compare the chariots to heavy duty ironbreaker unit as they cause less I was just pointing out that the any unit is broken by 3 chariots isn't correct. This isn't a special anti chariot unit it's the standard unit I use in my dwarfs

Well the main way to sort this is a game, I'll play any general with that list with either my empire or dwarfs and we'll see what happens. Am from nottingham so their should be a gamer nearby lol

Freak Ona Leash
29-07-2005, 19:33
There is always the idea that he could avoid your Ironbreakers, though if you do a good deployment that would be faitly difficult...

WhiteStar
01-08-2005, 09:00
Hmm...thanks for the feedback!

I allready have 3x5 hounds in there! Screamers would be nice, so we'll see if I'll drop one or two chariots to add them. I'm really not too afraid of warmachines. As was said, you seldom see more than two cannons in an empire army... And with 4 ambushing herds (and now probably screamers) they would be hard pressed to survive. No... if the cannons kill of a couple of chariots...ok...no prob.. I still have enough guys left to roll up his battleline with the two Minotaur units ad some 6-9 chariots that survived the carnage...

Thanks for the feedback! Welcomed and good! Thanks.

Lord Anathir
01-08-2005, 15:08
o my.....thats.....hideous
4 scrolls and 11 chariots....

all i have to say is be weary of leadership. If someone destorys one chariot in the middle of a pack of em, you might be in trouble. Also, note the chariots dont march, so someone with some good baiting knowledge can maybe got 4 or 5 turns without getting into combat with them.

but 11!!!! chariots!!!!! thats just nasty.

Consider dropping a couple of them for some rank and file units.

WhiteStar
02-08-2005, 05:43
But rank and file is so expensive! I have looked at Bestigors and found that they don't suit my needs at all. They don't have the staying power I need... sure they hit hard, but they cost alot too and make for a very good target for the enemy.

I know chariots don't march, but remember that they have MoCU. If someone brakes, they get to re-roll the panic test.

But they baiting tactic only lasts for so long. I have units coming from everywhere (17 CC units), so a unit fleeing from a charge and rallying (if they rally) they stand still and do nothing. I'm coming from alot of sides.

I have realized that I need screamers. They are hard to get rid of by shooting alone and they are in CC with the opponents warmachines on turn two. And even if someone manages to kill them of by shooting, it saves the rest of my army from a mauling - they really don't pose a threat for anybody but lone mages, warmachines and small skirmishers. And getting one warmachine is a big down for my opponent.

Thanks for the feedback!

User Name
03-08-2005, 05:23
add some mortal chariots for some marks and extra toughness, jsut say they were the strudy looted ones.

WhiteStar
03-08-2005, 08:46
That's an idea...will have to think about it...

WhiteStar
01-11-2005, 19:59
I cut two chariots and added a unit of furies and screamers. I also cut back the herds to 8/8 herds. Any views on this?

Frodo34x
02-11-2005, 15:57
How much cannons do you normally field? 4 is the max you can!
Empire: 4 as special choices, 2 as rare choices.

That's 6.

I'm pretty sure dwarfs can get the same.

WhiteStar
02-11-2005, 16:51
But with that many warmachines (which I doubt anyone would field) you would see me¨sending only flying deamons and ambushing herds for the warmachines with the rest staying out of sight. You would be in combat on turn two...turn three big time. That means that I would hide for a turn or two the best I could. Sure it would depend on terrain...but the ones not hiding would advance screened by other troops as far as that would be possible. But really... I've yet too see even a three cannon army.

Sambojin
03-11-2005, 12:42
It looks like a strong army, but I'd love to take it up against my 8 chariot, 6 combat heroes, wolf rider army of death(that I use to "Put crappy armies in thier place"). But hell then, anyone can mix-max a list if they know what they'll be fighting.

DisturbeD_
03-11-2005, 20:02
no i think dwarfs could pull that off quite easly with up to 8 bolt throwers at S7 and the two organ guns they will take care of any ambursers and flyiers and then you have they're rock hard infatry. and evan if you do manage to get to them by turn 2-3 they have probly earned thaier points back easily at 55 pts per bolt thrower inc the +1 strength rune

WhiteStar
03-11-2005, 20:10
First of...

Boltthrowers 45 pts a pop. The Rune of penetrating is +25pts. On top of that each combination of runes can be used only ONCE. So boltthrower + rune of penetrating can be used once, after that you'd need new combinations (which can include the rune of penetrating.) You'd be hard pressed to get eight reasonably priced strength 7 (or more) BT's. Couple that with dwarfs BS of 3.

So two Organ Guns are going to take care of four ambushing herds and two units of flyers... with 18", which is less than my flyers charge range. On top of that, it only shoots one measly artillerydice worth of shots. It's no Hellblaster Volleygun.

This list isn't specifically designed for any specific opponent. It is as general as possible. Would be cool to face that Goblin chariot horde ;)

DisturbeD_
04-11-2005, 16:50
no, the organ gun with the new rules is 24" and your can re-roll the artiraly dice, it would take care of the flying and would take a fair cunck out of the ambushers, BT can have a number of combanations to make them S7 may cost more but faceing an army like that i'd be willing to pay the points, and also for 13 pts in the new rules i think they get a BS4, andyou could have a cannon and 6 BT as the cannon could take out more than one a turn. but i must admitt it is a cool list but not one i would like to play against very oftern :P

WhiteStar
05-11-2005, 08:30
Ok. Would you like to give me the new rules? HAven't seen'em. So as far as that goes it's just a rumour.

But ok, 6 BT's with strength 7:

Since the dwarfs have one 5pt rune, one 20 pt rune and five 25 point runes. You would see one BT with Rune of Penetrating only, one with additional 5 pt, second with two additional 5pt runes, third with additional 20 pt rune, fourth with additional 25 point rune, fifth with another 25 point rune.

You would be looking at 505 pts for six boltthrowers. Ok not too bad...but you would have to hit too. And as this is meant for tournament play, I doubt I would such a specified anti army in there :D

Where did you get all this "solid" information on dwarfs? The new book isn't out yet!

DisturbeD_
07-11-2005, 15:22
lol i know it won't come up in a tourny but in your locl club may be, and engneer is now a add on to the warmachines for 13 pts and i know this as i have read the book :D plus i think there may be a few changes to some of the runes but i can't rember them and didn't rellie look there alot