PDA

View Full Version : Ways GW Could Increase Turnover Without Charging More



crandall87
27-03-2007, 16:14
After reading the BWBits thread a lot of things about GW low profit margins and turnover are being mentioned as people believe this may be their motive to closing BWBits cart. This has got me thinking about ways GW could increase their turnover without raising prices more.

1. We all are aware that this hobby has a lot of young followers, most of which do not have credit cards. Yet this is the only online payment method they have. Why not offer paypal or the use of visa electron cards?

2. Sell plastic bits. It would put me out of business but GW could make a lot of money from this.

3. Staff cutbacks. There are too many red shirts these days.

I can't think of anything else from the top of my head but if I do I will jot some down.

OrlyggJafnakol
27-03-2007, 16:21
My ideas;

As I have said elsewhere, cease to publish WD and produce a detailed on-line service.

Stop opening GW stores in poor locations, such as the store in Colchester.

Encourage other shops to stock their products, Toys R Us etc

generulpoleaxe
27-03-2007, 16:34
cutting back on staff is a bad idea.
many retail companies do this (gw included) as they think it will boost profits by cutting costs.
wrong, staff become over worked as the stores are under staffed and as a result turn over of staff increases. this brings about less trained staff and a poorer quality of service.
closing an entire store that loses a lot of money is far more beneficial than have half a dozen stores short staffed. it's not just the wages you are then cutting, but also all of the bills of running the brick and mortar store.

you have to close the correct stores otherwise you lose a lot of business and consequently your profits suffer even more.

i would source products that a lot of modellers use as a lot of people will buy them whilst in the store and not mind paying a little more than shopping online.
tamiya clear red for instance for blood effects, an armour wash (they once had one with cda paints) as well as other things that people use that makes people go, wow.

DarthSte
27-03-2007, 16:35
Unless the shop in Colchester has moved in the last 6 years, which it could have done, then it is a good location. Nice and close to the bus station for all those students heading back to Wivenhoe/Greenstead etc..?

Shorter opening hours. Does anybody actually go into the shops before lunchtime during the week?

Selling plastic bitz - they'd have got an extra 50 from me this week.

Stocking more Forgeworld & Re-establishing Specialist Games like Necromunda and Bloodbowl as core...

And Sadly - Making More Marine Varient Armies, as they apparently sell the best... Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Imperial Fists? And then continue the theme with the Chaos Legions, which they'll inevitably do. One Chaos List then individual chapters...

I'd pay more if there were less children in the shops. Or if I got a veto on the individual customers - they are the future of the hobby after all.

Keep the price and cut the size of WD. Do we really need 20 pages of what is going on around the world and a list of independant stockists in each issue. Drop the pages that nobody looks at. Once a year bring out a pamphlet of which independant stockists there are and just have a small paragraph of new openings and closings.

Don't give the red shirts such a good discount.

Re-establish the annual sale. They used to have us queuing for over an hour to get in outside the Leeds store in the '90s. You just buy everything in site, as you have worked into a frenzy.

Female staff members? I think we'd all spend more money if it was an attractive and attentive woman serving.:D

Just a few thoughts as to what would get me to spend more....

Jedi152
27-03-2007, 16:39
But if they start selling plastic bitz how many sales of plastic boxes would they lose?

I vote for releasing old games in pdf form on CD's. Warhammer Quest, Man o War, Gorkamorka, Space Hulk etc. - They have them all on their computers anyway, and no expensive card production costs.

Or maybe even sell the licence for old games to other game manufacturers, and just collect the royalties - kind of a joint venture like Heroquest and Space Crusade were with MB.

Archaon
27-03-2007, 16:44
Rather simple.. don't concentrate on flighty young boys and try to spread out to older gamers too.

That will accomplish two things.. older gamers are more steady in their hobbies and when they decide to play tabletop they are likely to stick with it for a time.. long time customer and thus long time revenue.
Older gamers are also ready and capable to introduce younger gamers to the game and keep them there and you don't have to pay them anything for that service (it comes with the hobby).

Make your rules rock solid and above all support them once they are out. Don't stick your head in the ground singing "lalala everything's perfect" and pretend there are no problems with lists and such.. give out FAQs, Erratas, make up interesting variant lists etc.
Publish the best in WD and the rest online.

Use your player base to tighten up the armybook/codex.. let them rip it apart and find the holes powergamers like to exploit. Listen to the advice of seasoned gamers who know the game inside out and can do far more testgames than the measly staff.

All this would lead to a better game... word will spread and people might play more which may lead to increased sales.

Stop with the rip off business practices.. most noticeable in the new Fantasy Empire boxes. 10 Plastic infantry models for 18 Euro when a 20 strong other infantry box costs 30. Hidden price increase of 6 Euro for the same amount of models (couldn't care less for duplicate command bits).
People are not dumb and notice stuff like this and word will spread (internet is fast) so you get a bad reputation which means less sales.

Crube
27-03-2007, 16:47
I agree with a lot of what Jedi says there...stuff like Man O War would be snapped up... just need to get them to re release some of the ships... the prices on ebay are amazing...

Also, they already dont open the stores until noon...

I reckon the return of grand reopenings/opening sales after a refit / new store would help bring in custom. There's nothing like queues of people outside a store to build up interest... I remember working the Derby grand reopening sale... damn that was busy - we took about 15-20 times a normal saturday's takings in one day...

OrlyggJafnakol
27-03-2007, 16:48
I second the return of Heroquest... An absolute classic game.

Osbad
27-03-2007, 16:51
Nowadays the trademark "Games Workshop" has got the reputation for over-priced plastic trash with its models, and poorly thought-through rules for unsatisfacotry games.

These may or may not be deserved reputations, but they are the "word on the street".

GW needs to do something to restore its reputation amongts gamers fast. Putting some value back into their products would be a start...

As things stand they are hameorraghing away from them gamers at a vast rate, it appears.

Until gamers believe they are going to be respected in their relationship with the producers of their chosen hobby, and not just exploited for as much of their money as GW can legally extort from them, nothing GW do will work to restore customer confidence, and consecquently the number of people buying from them will continue to fall.

On the one hand GW haven't raised the price of plastic core army models for LotR for 3 years (15/box of 20 or 24 depending on size of models) but on the other the price of character models has gone through the roof - 6 for a single Goblin Shaman.... WIth such random value for money as that, no wonder customers stay well away.

generulpoleaxe
27-03-2007, 16:53
they are bringing back some of the older games :D
i know mighty empires is one of them.

and sales do work when it comes to getting people to part with more money than they normaly would.

Templar Ben
27-03-2007, 17:05
A true intro set that requires next to nothing to play. Something you could put in Wal Mart or Toy R Us to compete with HeroScape. BfM doesn't cut it as that is a lot of work for something you don't know you will like.

I agree that GW needs to change the current mix.

I don't know about selling bits outside of sprues. They could make smaller sprues with the more popular bits and sell those. There is an inventory issue with adding all those SKUs not to mention the added work of cutting.

Make low selling armies mail order only. They are legal but let them wither on the vine to lower production runs to once a year if that.

Sai-Lauren
27-03-2007, 17:30
Thread should really be "Increasing Profits without charging more" - all turnover means is the amount of money coming in and going out.

1 profit on 100 turnover is better than 1 profit on 1000 turnover.


and sales do work when it comes to getting people to part with more money than they normaly would.

Agreed, not just from the sales, but also from subsequent store visits when people try and put what they bought in the sales into some kind of units/armies/battalions...


Don't give the red shirts such a good discount.

Unless you increase the wages and other terms/conditions, you've just eliminated most of your workforce.:rolleyes:



Female staff members? I think we'd all spend more money if it was an attractive and attentive woman serving.

My local store's got a female staff member, and I don't "spend to impress". If there's something I want, I buy it, if not, I'll save my money.
It don't make a blind bit of difference to me who's on the till.

Then again, I'm not a hormonally-charged 15 year old, and I'm sure GW's female staff members have had enough of them within their first week of employment :rolleyes: - and that's before they out of their training sessions with the rest of their recruitment group and to actually working in their stores. ;)

I'd say promote the smaller games - kill team, border patrol and the like - for the newcomers, giving them a small game they can start with minimal outlay of time and (their parents) money, and so they can get to learn the rules.

Have the main games, plus specialist games, with decent rules sets (you can start with the main rules and reduce them for the "starter" games), for the more mature players (x years experience, not y years old). Bring the RPG system(s) into stores as well, and maybe begin to promote the Warhammer Ancient Battles system as something close to, but not quite, a specialist game.

Maybe also a few offshoots - how about a good quality Regicide board (and rules) for 40k fans? Plus some more video game licenses - rather than Madden NFL '08, what about Maar'dn NAF 2208?

VetSgtNamaan
27-03-2007, 17:31
I see GW in the same light as I saw TSR before they got taken over by wizards of the coast. They are focused on putting out stuff they want rather than putting out things that the consumer will want to buy. Of course GW is in a different position I think than any rpg company since they have thier own chain of stores to maintain as well as trying to promote thier products. I think honestly if they take some of the tricks from the new version of DND pretty much every book Hasbro puts out has a web enhancement. It is nothing ground breaking of course but it a little extra couple pages of stuff you can use if you have bought said book and of course not to mention the open game license that was also a stroke of genius since instead of trying to compete with D&D 3rd party companies had the opportunity to make thier systems similar to the core books without any worries about legal woes. Of course there are stipulations but that is how things work.

I am not sure how well they would translate over but I have to agree if GW started putting out thier old games on cd as pdf's then I would be happy to buy especially the space hulk and expansions. Hell I would be even interested if they put out the first 200-300 wd on cd rom as well. I know the one that Wizards put out wiuth the first 250 dragons was a great buy for myself. And it is not like the production costs of cd is all that pocket breaking.

crandall87
27-03-2007, 17:52
I think store location is not an issue. If there is a gw in your town you will use it whether it is in a shopping mall or down a little backstreet. It is not in direct competition with anywhere else so you will go there. That's how small shops survive quiet areas by offering something unique such as GW do with warhammer, 40k etc.

Inquisitor S.
27-03-2007, 18:25
Well, they could make it easier for customers outside of UK (and maybe US) to get FW, BL, Specialist Games etc. items. At the moment I'd need a credit card and pay oversea shipping charges if I want anything else than novels. Why not simply make at least all BL publications available via e.g. Amazon? Ok, that would not account for miniatures. But it isn't even possible to order these products via a local GW here, only things that can be found in the "national" GW online shop, that's just ridiculous as they send that from UK too. So why not the other stuff? All this subdivisions are totally senseless if it comes to shopping...

VetSgtNamaan
27-03-2007, 18:41
I have to admit that would be a great idea, as there is alot of things I would like to get but apparently they are only availible in UK. As least that is what I have been told by GW Canada. Seems foolish not to have the same things availible in each country.

TCUTTER
27-03-2007, 18:44
its quite simple, rehire the 3rd ed 40k team and 6th ed warhammer team, they knew what they were doing, i was totally engrossed back then where as now im cynical about everything my beloved 40k does, lotr is a lame duck, its a limited license and will run out so stop focusing on it, your killing a limited resourse as it is, limit the releases there and focus on the games that made the company big

leonmallett
27-03-2007, 18:48
Expanding on points earlier - have a visible presence for products beyond core WH40K, WFB and LotR. Include some top selling Forge World stuff and make FW orderable through stores (thereby potentially picking up additional sales when order is placed or collected).

Stock the WFRP line - the production values are excellent so it won't look shabby.

Stock a few best-seller items from the Specialist Games as well as always having the rulesets in stock.

Don't hide Talisman away when it returns.

Give sufficient space to stock a reasonable amount of the novels.

Rather than launching 'splash release only' items of interest, test the waters and keep the ones that will sell (urban basing kit anyone). Expand the supplementary items such as counters and markers - not must-haves, but still wanted items (or else Gale Force 9 wouldn't have a business).

More judicious employment. I am 33 years old and don't want to be 'frothed at' by someone who was in infant school when I first stepped into a GW store. Save that for new customers. The approach to mature gamers needs to be pitched right. My local store has it so wrong recently that I have set foot once in there in the last few months.

White Dwarf is improving but it needs balance. Mature gamers want depth, whilst some simpler stuff for newer hobbyists (so as not to overwhelm them/put them off). On the other hand don't treat hobbyists (new and old alike) like idiots, and recognise they may all want depth.

Stick some sneak peaks in WD. Yes the magazine is produced months in advance, but give buyers something to get excited about.

Advertise. Think about the markets that can be tapped furher and advertise accordingly. Cross-advertise with the computer games products more strongly. Use computer games magazines to advertise in. Does Dragon still have non-WotC ads? If so - advertise there if they will take the money. You getb the idea. The Warseer Dark Angels ad was a very good idea. Now if that ad was expanded to slightly less dedicated sites with a nonethless large membership, even cooler.

Bite the bullet, face down the criticism (although not from me) and play to your strengths GW - a Space Marine codex/army each year if that is truly the strongest area of sales.

Just a few ideas.

scarletsquig
27-03-2007, 18:56
Sell pasta in-store.

The profit margin on that stuff is huge.

Either that, or undergo some serious rebranding with a large TV campaign/ adverts etc and games to support the ltest movei or whatever in an effort to make themselves look cool for once.

Mikhaila
27-03-2007, 19:03
Get Frank Miller to write a 40k comic book.

Get Frank Miller to direct the movie of the 40k comic book he wrote.

JT-Y
27-03-2007, 19:06
Not wanting to get into it too much, I feel the simple action of charging less would increase turnover, as consumers will spend more when the individual things they buy are cheaper, if that makes sense.

Can't see selling individual plastic components (if that whats meant?) being viable, as it would lead to a tremendous amount of wastage from the sprues.

Anyway, what I really wanted to say was on the staff.
Cutting staff levels in retail again (they were cut almost 2 years ago) would be dangerous, as they are already too low for what is required.

Kids in the store won't ever go away, and nor should they. True, be nice if they would, but GW does bring in new hobbyists well and shouldn't ever stop. The more hobbyists the better for us all.

That means beginner days and beginner/under 16 clubs. Great, such events are essential to turn such 'n00bs' into proper hobbyists. I know as I ran many when I worked in retail.

Here's the thing...

It is a neccessary requirement that minors under the age of 16 be supervised by two or more adults at all times (in the UK at least, don't know the situation abroad, but I for one can see a certain moral obligation). Currently it is regularly less within GW stores, which is bad to the point of being negligent.
Ideally there should be three staff in the store when it is full of minors, to ensure two are present at all times.

Currently, taking a sunday as an example, one staffer opens up, and is joined later by a second staffer. Later in the evening the first staffer goes home his shift done, leaving the other on his own. During the day, either staffer will leave the shop floor for breaks etc.
Throughout this time the shop is populated by childeren (it may be, and often is, true that in larger stores with more staff this is not the case, but even one store where this can arise is too many in my eyes).

No safeguards are in place for either the protection of the children or the staffers themselves from allegations which may be made, malicious or otherwise.

Combine that with a frightening lack of training in childcare or relevant qualifications (including First Aid, all stores should have at least one trained First Aider, by law, assuming the store employes less than five people, more than five and it is two First Aiders, most have zero) and I worry over the possible implications.

Am I the only person who can see the wrongness of the staff situation as it stands?
Still think there should be fewer?

Sorry, I'm not wanting to hijack this thread onto this potentialy very evocotive subject. Just stating my concerns. I'd also suggest that my concerns will be clearer in context to adults and parents than to younger hobbyists, and I don't mean to sound rude in that. Appologies if I do.

crandall87
27-03-2007, 19:08
Boxing up foreworld stuff and selling them in stores would be quite good.

JT-Y
27-03-2007, 19:22
Boxing up foreworld stuff and selling them in stores would be quite good.

Make it a damn site more accesible too.
Space would ofcourse become an issue.

Maybe the opportunity to order FW through the store and pay at the till, as with regular mail orders?

Bazhrak
27-03-2007, 20:30
Well, you've said alot that would work so i won't repeat it.

Kick the shareholders out. Kick the Ceos out. Let the Workers rule the company democraticly. That way you wouldn't have to pay revenues to the shareholder or the usually quite nice pay that a ceo demands.

Oh, and listen to your customers.

dodicula
27-03-2007, 20:33
Fire every corporate weasel in accounting, HR and every other line of work that doesn't contribute directly to product creation except those that are absolutely necessary and spend the money to lure away the good sculptors, artists and writers that have left GW for greener pastures.

The danger with any company going corporate is that the fat in a company increases exponentially while the talent evaporates, this seems to be doubly true for GW, and it is time to turn that around.

sheck2
27-03-2007, 20:59
1. Bring out more models more often.
2. Update books more often...not two a year and new version every 4-6 years
3. Enhance the books...not just re-arrange the deck chairs
4. Produce more stuff to buy with models (they are starting to do this)...building, terrain, etc.
5. Encourage more battlefield quality than master class painting to get more customers hooked on the game / hobby so it is less daunting starting out

Templar Ben
27-03-2007, 21:24
Well, you've said alot that would work so i won't repeat it.

Kick the shareholders out. Kick the Ceos out. Let the Workers rule the company democraticly. That way you wouldn't have to pay revenues to the shareholder or the usually quite nice pay that a ceo demands.

Oh, and listen to your customers.


Fire every corporate weasel in accounting, HR and every other line of work that doesn't contribute directly to product creation except those that are absolutely necessary and spend the money to lure away the good sculptors, artists and writers that have left GW for greener pastures.

The danger with any company going corporate is that the fat in a company increases exponentially while the talent evaporates, this seems to be doubly true for GW, and it is time to turn that around.

:eek: So you must destroy the company to save it?

Captain Marius
28-03-2007, 00:47
1. Bring out more models more often.
2. Update books more often...not two a year and new version every 4-6 years
3. Enhance the books...not just re-arrange the deck chairs
4. Produce more stuff to buy with models (they are starting to do this)...building, terrain, etc.
5. Encourage more battlefield quality than master class painting to get more customers hooked on the game / hobby so it is less daunting starting out

1, Would this really be feasible? More models would require more designers and more marketing; the release schedule is pretty tricky to balance. I rather like the current approach of supplementary releases for recent armies alongside a summer campaign (eg last years 40K stuff and this year's coming WFB releases). I'm not sure if it would be possible to speed up releases.

2, Another tricky one. I'm not sure how enthusiastic people will be about having to buy new versions of books they already own even more frequently than they do now. What about slowing down the releases to allow more resources to be devoted to online FAQs and erratas?

3, The books for the most recent editions of 40K and WFB have been vast improvements on their older incarnations. The difference between the old and new Dark Angels codexes is incredible (not a patch on Codex: Angels of Death of course :angel: )

4, I agree, I like the way that quality terrain kits are being released. This area looks like it's going to become massive in the next few years.

5, Attracting new gamers has always been one of the main priorities. I think BfM, BfSP and MoM are a good start, but I'd be interested to hear other ideas for others products that will attract new gamers. Pre-painted miniatures anyone? :evilgrin: There must be better ideas about!

Sorry if it looks like I'm picking on you Shek2, I'm not, I just found your points particularly interesting and wanted to respond!

Paulus
28-03-2007, 01:49
I vote for releasing old games in pdf form on CD's. Warhammer Quest, Man o War, Gorkamorka, Space Hulk etc. - They have them all on their computers anyway, and no expensive card production costs.


Good idea Jedi!

If they don't want to do it in store they could always put them up as chargeable downloads on there online stores?


sales do work when it comes to getting people to part with more money than they normaly would.

There's one coming up soon celebrating the 20th (I think) anniversary of White Dwarf (maybe a UK only thing - not sure) with prize give aways & FREE CAKE :D free cake is at the discretion of store.

Perhaps this is a sign of at least an annual sale returning?


rehire the 6th ed warhammer team, they knew what they were doing

Correct me if I'm wrong (I've deliberately removed the 40K comments) but isn't the team working on 7th edition WHFB almost exactly the same team that have worked on 6th?


Get Frank Miller to write a 40k comic book.

Get Frank Miller to direct the movie of the 40k comic book he wrote.

lol! He might seem to have a Midas like effect now but I doubt even he could pull that off.


Am I the only person who can see the wrongness of the staff situation as it stands?

I had not even put a lot of thought into the points that you've refered to there JT-Y but now you've mentioned it, it is a little alarming for both staff & customers.


Maybe the opportunity to order FW through the store and pay at the till, as with regular mail orders?

I think that would be a better option than keeping them in store.


Kick the shareholders out. Kick the Ceos out.

First you have to find the money to buy shares back from shareholders (who will want considerably more than they paid for them) & then you would have to pay the "golden handshake" that Mr Kirby is entitled to from his contract (it's in one of the annual reports somewhere)

Those things alone would probably financially ruin the company.


Fire every corporate weasel in accounting, HR and every other line of work that doesn't contribute directly to product creation except those that are absolutely necessary

Accounting & HR are absolutely necessary to a company of GW's size I'm afraid.


1. Bring out more models more often.
2. Update books more often...not two a year and new version every 4-6 years3. Enhance the books...not just re-arrange the deck chairs
4. Produce more stuff to buy with models (they are starting to do this)...building, terrain, etc.
5. Encourage more battlefield quality than master class painting to get more customers hooked on the game / hobby so it is less daunting starting out

1) They bring out stuff every month, I don't get the problem there, to hurry sculptors (who are limited in no's) would only be detrimental to the product.

2) I would rather a book be developed to the point where there is no need for a new one less than every 4 -6 years.

3) A funny one, I can see where you are coming from but they have to be careful not to completely invalidate peoples existing armies.

4) Agreed & as you say this is something that's being done.

5) Double edged sword - on the one hand images of beautifully painted mini's help bring new blood to the hobby & on the other hand said new comer can become irritate when they aren't remotely as good.

On the whole I think it's difficult, I think the most effective solutions would be to 1 reduce costs slightly (doesn't need to be huge reductions, 1 or 2 here or there would do it) & 2 close shops that don't come close to making a profit.

I'm no business guru though else I would be running one & not telling others how to :D

sheck2
28-03-2007, 15:02
1. Bring out more models more often.
2. Update books more often...not two a year and new version every 4-6 years
3. Enhance the books...not just re-arrange the deck chairs
4. Produce more stuff to buy with models (they are starting to do this)...building, terrain, etc.
5. Encourage more battlefield quality than master class painting to get more customers hooked on the game / hobby so it is less daunting starting out

Rather than pull pieces from several good comments regarding my statements above and creating confusion, I'll am referencing original statements above...

With regard to...

#1 & #2 - Yes GW is bringing out new/more product each month, but that is irrelevant as their products are not ubiquitous.

Releasing more models for Empire does NOT satisfy demand for O&G. The armies are like brands and GW does not seem recognize this. They treat each 'game' as a brand i.e. WHFB, 40k, LOTR rather than the brand differentiation within each game.

An analogy is General Motors...it has brands Chevrolet (Orcs), Buick (Choas), Saturn (Dwarfs), Saab (Lizards), Cadillac (Orges), etc. Each brand has a number of models. And typically each brand is updated every three years with new models. NOTE - GW seems to use the automotive industry cycle for new product / model development and introduction, which is inappropriate for minis IMO.

So if a Buick owner sees new product come out for Saab...do they care? It neither satisfies demand nor consumer satisfaction.

We live in a world where everything has faster development cycles and obsolescence. Customers expect more sooner.

The issue is resources to update each brand (army) sooner. There are ways to enhance the development cycle without increasing labor exponentially or detrementially.

By accepting a slower product development cycle - GW is accepting slower sales. They have less in the pipeline and fewer opportunities for success. They lose customers who move on to other things that interest them because GW allows an interest gap...the GW philosophy is to 'convert' them to other armies or other games. However this marketing/sales strategy seems to have failed with LOTR and seems to be failing in general.

Maybe a new thread on how to increase / enhance product development?

Curufew
28-03-2007, 16:51
As a newbie in this hobby, I would like to play some of the older games such as Space Crusade or Gorkamoka

Sai-Lauren
28-03-2007, 17:18
Rather than pull pieces from several good comments regarding my statements above and creating confusion, I'll am referencing original statements above...

With regard to...

#1 & #2 - Yes GW is bringing out new/more product each month, but that is irrelevant as their products are not ubiquitous.

Releasing more models for Empire does NOT satisfy demand for O&G. The armies are like brands and GW does not seem recognize this. They treat each 'game' as a brand i.e. WHFB, 40k, LOTR rather than the brand differentiation within each game.

An analogy is General Motors...it has brands Chevrolet (Orcs), Buick (Choas), Saturn (Dwarfs), Saab (Lizards), Cadillac (Orges), etc. Each brand has a number of models. And typically each brand is updated every three years with new models. NOTE - GW seems to use the automotive industry cycle for new product / model development and introduction, which is inappropriate for minis IMO.

So if a Buick owner sees new product come out for Saab...do they care? It neither satisfies demand nor consumer satisfaction.

We live in a world where everything has faster development cycles and obsolescence. Customers expect more sooner.

The issue is resources to update each brand (army) sooner. There are ways to enhance the development cycle without increasing labor exponentially or detrementially.

By accepting a slower product development cycle - GW is accepting slower sales. They have less in the pipeline and fewer opportunities for success. They lose customers who move on to other things that interest them because GW allows an interest gap...the GW philosophy is to 'convert' them to other armies or other games. However this marketing/sales strategy seems to have failed with LOTR and seems to be failing in general.

Maybe a new thread on how to increase / enhance product development?
In the first, trickle releases of new figures after their main splash release do actually seem to be happening - most 40k armies got something for City Of Death last year, Harlequins are only just being released, a few months after the Eldar codex splash, as is some of the Empire stuff and so on). Everyone stays interested, because they know that they'll get something new either next month, or the month after, there's a constant trickle of money rolling into the tills as the kids spend their weekly pocket money - and the adults do likewise ;) - and people actually have chance to paint their purchases before they buy the next thing, as before they know it, they've got a nice sized army, and they don't feel like they've spent a lot of time or money on it (you can justify dropping a tenner a week easily, but 40 or 50 a month in one go is a lot harder).

The don't even have to be big things - just something that'll go in a couple of blisters, say Empire get some variant metal Greatswords (Greataxes for a more rural state, or Greathammers for Middenheim?), or Guard get a couple of heavy weapons for the Tanith, or the Riders of Rohan in LoTR gets something.

I'd also do a small "rival" release alongside the big splash releases - if you're releasing High Elves, why not do some Dark Elves alongside them as well? the big release will catch a lot of the attention, but the rival release may actually interest people who otherwise wouldn't spend very much.

Even down to "Hey, want a 40k Imperial milita/holy crusade army? Well, if you buy some 20mm round bases, a couple of boxes of empire footsoldiers, some of these additional parts... - and here's a limited time availablity box set for the additional bits at just above cost that'll get you through a couple of units worth".

As for enhancing product development - simple. Each of the core games gets a product manager, who is responsible for taking their lowest performing army/brand and increasing it's revenue in a sustainable manner, without overtly affecting the revenues of their other brands.
Specialist games can have one as well.

So for 40k, we'd see Sisters and DE getting promoted, whilst marines only get occasional mentions. :D

Strangelove
28-03-2007, 19:31
Young gamers are much more likely to stay with the hobby if they have friends who are also involved. Like it or not, recruiting and retaining young gamers is the key to longevity for the hobby.

There are some simple ways to foster this.

- If two friends come in together, and both buy a box, give them both a discount. It doesn't have to be big, but it's an incentive to spread the hobby and get friends involved, and it helps long-term retention.

- Get kids to socialize at Mega-Battles, beyond "10 attacks hitting on 4+". You need to give them the sense that there is a community and a social reward, it's not just the kid and their models.

yabbadabba
28-03-2007, 19:41
I don't think these kinds of threads do much other than offer a kind of spleen venting mechanism for everyone. Which is in itself not a bad thing.

My first point is there is no point posting business based ideas. If you are an expert, go and get a job with GW a sort it out (please?). If not, nobody is going to listen to an unasked for and unqualified p.o.v.

The true question should be "What can GW do to make me spend more money". This is a true reflection on the quality of the service they are providing. If you feel like you have been "abandoned" as a customer then list why. Saying that their overheads are to big just doesn't mean anything. Saying that the instore customer service is rubbish says a lot more.

I find it hard to list something here. I guess what I want is more inspiration. As a gamer of some 20 odd years this means more support product aimed at me.
My own magazine, not WD, but one for hobbyists like me so that there is no compromise.
More advanced rules. I don't care if they are official but I would love to see and try the rules they cut out of the main rulebooks. Just for a laugh.
More support for me to enjoy my hobby with the limited time I have. Like color spray.

There may be more but thats all for now.

gorgon
28-03-2007, 20:34
Stock the WFRP line - the production values are excellent so it won't look shabby.

Stock a few best-seller items from the Specialist Games as well as always having the rulesets in stock.

Don't hide Talisman away when it returns.

Give sufficient space to stock a reasonable amount of the novels.

Rather than launching 'splash release only' items of interest, test the waters and keep the ones that will sell (urban basing kit anyone). Expand the supplementary items such as counters and markers - not must-haves, but still wanted items (or else Gale Force 9 wouldn't have a business).

What should they cut in order to make room for this stuff in the stores? Shelf space is a very big deal. But hey, at least you're offering practical ideas.

Most of the "ideas" in this thread resemble something the underpants gnomes would come up with. :rolleyes:

Paulus
28-03-2007, 21:14
My first point is there is no point posting business based ideas. If you are an expert, go and get a job with GW a sort it out (please?). If not, nobody is going to listen to an unasked for and unqualified p.o.v.

The true question should be "What can GW do to make me spend more money". This is a true reflection on the quality of the service they are providing. If you feel like you have been "abandoned" as a customer then list why. Saying that their overheads are to big just doesn't mean anything. Saying that the instore customer service is rubbish says a lot more.


Probably the best point made in this entire thread.

dodge33cymru
29-03-2007, 05:39
I'm sure that this must have been mentioned elsewhere, but have they ever tried allowing their licenses to be used by the creators of miniatures from other companies?

Case in point: Gamezone produce some fantastic Cold Ones. They don't call them that, obviously, and as far as I know, have a set of their own rules with which to provide collectors. Now, GW don't have to advertise these as a rival to their own product, they don't mention them in WD etc. However, if they offered Gamezone a license, to either call their product Cold Ones (TM) or a label saying "for use in Games Workshop's Warhammer Fantasy Battles", the possible benefits are twofold:

a) people liking the miniatures would see them as part of GW's game
b) the sales of the licenses to companies would raise an income of itself

Obviously, they would need some sort of quality control before just giving their licenses to anyone.



Now, this is only hypothetical, of course, but I was just surprised that I couldn't find any mention of it anywhere. My apologies if there is.

Bunnahabhain
03-04-2007, 20:55
Well, I'd like to see the tanks packaged differently. The imperial tanks make up a lot of sales, but also take up a lot of room. They're all based on one of three chassis, so why not just stock a Rhino, Chimera and Russ, and have the turrets and additional bits as a smaller box, or blister. They'd take up less room, so you could stock some more of the alternate turrets.

JT-Y
03-04-2007, 20:58
And charge more for the extra packaging...

I can see that being a winning idea Bunnahabhain.

Daniel36
03-04-2007, 21:35
I saw some people mention and discuss selling loose bits. That in itself isn't a very good idea, as some pointed, but how about selling a "bit-box" in the form of a Regiment Boxed set comprising of sprues filled with interesting bits, such as mushrooms, a skeleton, a cart, a dead cow, some loose weapons etc etc.

Also, one thing I found rather depressing was the quality of the White Dwarf the past year or so. Fortunately GW themselves see this too, and are apparently going to change the magazine to satisfy the older, mature gamers a bit more again, as nowadays its more a newcomers magazine/ad.

Releasing all the Specialist Games and selling Forgeworld stuff instore seems a pretty good idea as well!

spacedwarv
04-04-2007, 01:43
1. Redo the managment system GW uses...fire Kirby.
2. Lower prices about 25-40% such that people are tempted to buy two products instead of one.
3. Give advantages to Indy retailers that are more than online stores.
4. Make ordering process for Specialist Games and Forgeforld easier.
5. If an army is not selling well pull it from the shelves and make it special order online. Release updates online.
6. Have a official playtesters forum.
7. Do a yearly sale to clear out old inventory.
8. ADVERTISE TO PEOPLE!!!
9. Put White dwarf through a normal publisher like time(more distrubution)
10. Redo the format of it such that you might be able to sell it to a non gamer.
11. Sell intellectual property.
12. Make LOTR SG and make BFG a core game, simplify BB so that it can be sold as a board game through Milton Bradley or equivilent.


That is all I can think of right now...

JT-Y
04-04-2007, 14:02
There is no easy solution sadly.

Firstly sales, well, they will increase turnover, but they devalue stock. An annual sale wouldn't work for that reason. A sale of old lines being removed from the shelves might well work though, a last chance to buy before it goes Direct only.

Secondly advertising. Once a company goes that route it becomes dependant upon it, and it costs alot. It may work short term, but what then? Another LOTR style sales bubble effectively.
So word of mouth is always best.

Which brings us to thirdly, the prices.
Yes, if stuff costs less, people will infact spend more, its human nature. Even sales related, like 'buy 3, get the cheapest free' would work to boosts sales and make people feel happy about buying a big new unit.

The real problem with prices is the effect they have.
For instance, Johnny's mum tells her freind who's own son is interested that Johnny spent X amount and now its all under the bed. She stopped buying because its too expensive, he can't use it because he says its not a full army...
The freinds son won't be collecting, now will he.
Such huge prices effect the one thing GW needs above all else: word of mouth. Whatever else they do well, they won't ever be able to climb that obstacle.

Its also worth noting that high street sales are down and credit cards are used less because, in the UK at least, debt is so high, so if a product is unaffordable consumers are leaving it today whereas 3 years ago they'd buy it on credit.
Make sense?