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Highborn
29-03-2007, 10:51
I was playing with my new Vampire Counts the other week, with clubmates sick to death of being outmaneuvred by my Wood Elves. The game concluded in a massacre in my favour, and my opponent remarked, "You know, that's a very fast list." Not "that's a very fast list, for vampires," but just "that's a very fast list".

It got me thinking - I definitely favour the movement phase as a way to win the game, and a large part of the draw of vampires was having two phases (movement and magic) in which I could maneuvre troops around the field and set up those devasting combined charges or run circles around the opponent's massive cavalry hammer. The recent WD tactica also contributed to the discussion, and has left me posing this question to Warseer players:

What phase of the game do you play in?

PSYCHOLOGY - Yes, the Psychology Phase hasn't existed for some time now, but it's still a big part of the game and some armies make and break on the first part of the turn with panic tests, terror tests, and fear tests for charge declarations making the opponent roll so many sets of two D6 that eventually even dwarves will quit the field and go to the pub.

MOVEMENT - Wood Elves, magic-heavy Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings, and flying circuses of all sorts apply here. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see. These armies charge in from further than some armies can shoot, concentrating ridiculous amounts of force then disappearing out of LOS leaving you standing as you were, minus a few units.

MAGIC - Vampires, High Elves, Lizards and Tzeentch all play effectively in this phase. They have so many dice before them when it comes to the start of the magic phase that your humble five dice don't last you past the first two potentially game-breaking spells they throw. Then, when you think it's all over, out comes the Staff of Damnation, Book of Arkhan or the elves' twin rings.

SHOOTING - It's like trying to punch a hedgehog. By the time you get to the end of all the spikes and are ready to hurt the thing, your hand's so bloodied and torn that you can't do more than give it a friendly pat on the back and say "I'll get you next time". Empire, dwarves, skaven, wood elves, dark elves, skink hordes ... they roll so many dice to hit that it hurts.

COMBAT - The opposite of the shooting army, these guys charge at you so hard that either through resilience (chaos mortals), speed (bretonnians) or sheer numbers (orcs) they reach your lines with enough brutal hand to hand that you can't hold against the tide and crumble. These guys love getting down and dirty, and love nothing more than watching you try and desperately roll snake-eyes after destroying your front rank and half of your second with cold steel.



A balanced army will play in more than one, but many armies will favour one or two of these methods of winning, if only slightly. Which phase is yours?

The Dark One
29-03-2007, 10:57
got to love combat

wierd thing, why does your poll seem to be 150%

Skyldig
29-03-2007, 11:03
Psychology and combat are mine, in that order (voted psychology).

I've played skaven and chaos mortals, and once seeing the "invincible" horde or ratmen crumble to a few panic tests, run, rallying, and running again, I've made psychology my main concern.

Battle standard bearers, as high ld as possible, general spreading that ld, reroll to psychology, frenzied units (monks, khorne), well, you name it.

And thus, I've been lured into the combat focus as well with such units.

WanderingRogue
29-03-2007, 11:14
well i play butcher heavy msu ogres, with terror tyrant. so everything bar the shooting really.

Highborn
29-03-2007, 11:18
It's a multiple choice poll, because armies that play exclusively in one phase are generally considered cheesey (flying circuses, gunlines, SAD, etc). For example, my wood elves have a hefty portion of their points in shooting to remove the enemy's fast cavalry, skirmishers and shooters, which limits their ability to deal with the manuevrable, hits-like-a-mack-truck element of my army.

I didn't tick combat because in reality my units can't go one-for-one. I rely on movement to deliver my troops into the ideal positions, unlike, say, Bretonnians where a single combat unit could arguably deal with almost any other single enemy unit.

Briohmar
29-03-2007, 11:26
O-)-c I'm a fast and hard kind of player. I use an MSU Slaaneshi force, so its all about the movement for me. Slaaneshi magic enhances movement for me, or conversely it hinders movement for my opponent. The hardness of Chaos knights and minotaurs in CC also enhances my play, but movement is definitely the most important phase, as a single dumb move can end up wiping out half of my army on turn two.

McMullet
29-03-2007, 11:30
It's hard to say really. With my Lizardmen, I'm generally outnumbered in terms of ranked units, which means that the movement phase is challenging to get right. Of course, Saurus Warriors make up for this with their ability to beat most units on an even field. Nonetheless, movement (or perhaps more deployment) is important to ensure that the Saurus don't get outmanoeuvred themselves - either by using terrain, positioning or other units to guard their flanks.

I've never seen magic as a way to win games. It's support and that's all it'll ever be to me, even with a Slann.

Shooting is, once again, a supporting element for me. Shooting can be used tactically to take out war machines, missile troops, rob combat units of ranks/outnumbering, but with never win the game.

The large number of high strength attacks that all of my combat units dish out mean that I can win combats without worrying too much about movement. It's always nice when an undead player tells me his zombies are rear charging...

I've never really focussed on psychology as a game winning tactic, but against some armies it can be handy.

Aelyn
29-03-2007, 13:14
With lizardmen, I either play in movement and shooting or movement and magic, depending on the army composition.

With night goblins, I tend to play in movement and combat, with movement being the more important.

On the rare occasions I play with my housemate's Chaos, I tend to play in the movement, magic and combat phases equally, making sure each feeds off the others.

I feel the movement phase is the most important phase of the game, by quite a margin, since all of the other three rely on good use of the movement phase to be used to their maximum.

(Voted Movement and Magic, since they're the most important two for me generally)

Hywel
29-03-2007, 15:23
The movement phase is where battles are won or lost, thus I like to focus on it with my slaanesh army. I guess combat punch is their secondary phase, but it is the movement that dictates its effectiveness.

With my empire I try to take part equally well in all phases. I can then identify which phases are the weakest for my opponent and emphasise those elements of my army whilst the others ensure the opponent doesn't get a monopoly in his chosen phases.

Black Behemoth
29-03-2007, 17:23
With my Slaanesh, two phases: Movement and Magic. The Slaaneshi Magic Phase assists the Slaaneshi Movement Phase, so i guess Movement is the more important.

Corrupt
29-03-2007, 18:06
Mix of all really, but mostly Combat and Movement, with a little magic thrown in for good measure

Cragspyder
29-03-2007, 18:11
Haha, I'm not sure what Tomb Kings counts for.

I would assume they play in the Magic (even if it is magical movement) and Psychology phases, as Skeletons can't win anything cept through fear.

Personally I don't think it is too smart to play Magic as your main phase unless you are Tomb Kings (no miscasts, no failed spells unless they are dispelled), Lizardmen with no miscast Slann, or Tzneetch Chaos, although they can still miscast as far as I know.

squiggoth
29-03-2007, 19:03
Infantry-heavy Nurgle Mortals with most of my characters being Nurgle Sorcerers, so I guess it's Psychology (Fear ...), Movement (or lack thereof, and trying to hold back enemy horsies and stuff by slowly shuffling all over the battlefield :p) and Magic for me.

ScreamingDoombull
29-03-2007, 19:06
With my Khorne Beastherd, it's all about the magic baby! (joking!)

My victories come from movement and the massive hate crimes we all call hand-to-hand! My defeats come from the botching of one or both of these areas.

Snotteef
29-03-2007, 19:26
I voted movement (though combat is a close second). I was sad to see that deployment was not a choice on the poll. Deployment is at least as important as movement to me (especially with Dwarves).

Franco
29-03-2007, 20:24
I'm not going to say 'all, if you want to win a game, you have to do well on all of them!!!' I said shooting. I had O&G and loved the shooting phase but they weren't good. That is a reason why i now collect WE. I love to shoot someone down from far away. People will get a buzz from chopping an opponents head off in one, but i like to shoot them down before they can inflict any wounds on me!!!

Jimjim
29-03-2007, 20:45
With my O&G, I use lots of large blocks of Boyz, with a Black orc Orc warboss, 2 Night gobbo shammys, a orc shammy, and 3 boar chariots. So I kinda play in both magic and combat phase, as long as all of the boyz gets in combat at one point, which strengthens my magic phase :)

When I play my Necrarch VC army, I use a count, necros and a wight lord in a black knight unit.. Magic is the phase i dominate, but combat is also something I am dependant of, as the skellies and zombies holds up units, and lets the black knights roll up their line from a flank.

Highborn
29-03-2007, 21:50
I was sad to see that deployment was not a choice on the poll. Deployment is at least as important as movement to me (especially with Dwarves).

Every army needs to move, as in every other ... but some armies rely on massive movement to move the focal point of the battle faster than their opponent can keep up. Things like flying circuses are classic examples of armies that I think will win the game in the movement phase, as opposed to all-knight Bretonnians who are definitely fast, but win in the combat phase because of their dominance in combat.

On that note ... I can't think of any army that can say "I win" based on where they've deployed (thank god).

Snotteef
30-03-2007, 02:58
On that note ... I can't think of any army that can say "I win" based on where they've deployed (thank god).


Well, we definitely have different views and different experiences. Now, I agree that there is not a specific 'army' that wins in the deployment phase, but I have played a number of games that were won or lost because of the deployment phase. Poor deployment with an army that isn't particularly fast can easily cost someone the game. Alternatively, clever deployment can dramatically improve one's chances of winning a game.

To recap, I agree that there is no army or army type that consistently wins through the deployment phase, but the phase has a massive impact on the outcome of many games [I]regardless[I] of the armies being played.

Finnigan2004
30-03-2007, 04:34
I voted psychology, movement, and combat for my Khorne daemons (which I usually use). This changes when I use my Tzeentch or undivided stuff though, as I can add in a decent magic phase. It's cool to use different compositions to change your tactics sometimes I find.

ashc
30-03-2007, 12:08
Option 6, all of them preferably.

In my planned dark elf army i have:

Psychology: Lord mounted on Black Dragon to scare the bejeebus out of opponents

Movement: Elven infantry, a couple of units of dark riders and a flying dragon

Magic: Backing up the force are 2 level 2 sorcerors

Shooting: 2 units of RXBs and a couple of Reaper bolt throwers to cap it off

Combat: Corsairs and Spearmen hold the battleline whilst the dark riders and dragonlord work their charms.

I would like to try and reach balance, the yinyang of warhammer to appreciate all aspects of the game these days. :angel:

Ash

Scanno
30-03-2007, 12:30
Hacky hacky slashy slashy, wit sum stompin round da field and zappy waaagh magic.

Gotta love orc infantry hordes.

Alathir
30-03-2007, 13:35
With my bretonnian force (which is my main) its all about the combat and movement. Although my eagerness for a good charge can sometimes cloud my tactics...

With my wood elves, its all about movement and shooting (at least with my elves) and I love it when my glade guard are able to outshoot the masses of empire handgunners across the table.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
30-03-2007, 14:47
I voted movement (for DE) because that is where most of the tactics come in, the rest is just rolling dice.

soultaker87
30-03-2007, 15:45
for my lizardmen, I go with magic and shooting. skinks and slanns are so fun

Jongrom Calasson
30-03-2007, 16:49
Stunty shooting. Unbeatable.

the vicar
31-03-2007, 06:17
It all comes down to movement for me. Like my last game, sure I had some nasty (or so I thought) magic going in with my Dark Elf Cult of Slaanesh list, but when on turn 2 I forgot the inability of units that are immune to psychology to flee as a charge reaction, and had my nice big point-sink mounted daemonettes charged by a unit of four trolls, the game was pretty much over.

Having 180 points out of 1k wiped out on turn 2 of a game does not go over well.

My heavy magic was unable to stem the green tide after that.

Warlord Ghazak Gazhkull
31-03-2007, 12:21
Movement and lots of combat for my greenskin horde, shooting is for pansy's altough I take a little bit magic.

Greetz
G