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Hesperus
29-03-2007, 13:30
I've been playing High elves for a while now But ive not been proply able to figure out there tactics. I have read the HE army book but i could use some advice.

I will be fight a 2000 points Chaos army . I was wondering if there are any units which could help me in this type of battle and would also be a good start to making a HE army?

Any advice would be a big help.

alenui
29-03-2007, 23:21
A bit more information would be really useful:

What sort of Lists have you been using?

What problems are you encountering playing with High Elves?

As for what units are good to take most are really useful persoanlly i don't use phoniex guard or lothern seaguard but anythingelse has uses. Chaos are very varied so more specific informantion on what he will be taking would also be useful.


Your tactics depend greatly on the list, what your opponents list includes and what you intend to do.

The Old Scholar
30-03-2007, 09:09
My two pennies:
Cavalry against Chaos.
I had great luck with both Silver Helms and Dragon Princes aided by a small unit of Reavers and Shadow Warriors.
I recomend Bolt Throwers and archers as well.
Pick your fights carefully and don't expect your Heroes to win in duels versus his. Swordmaster honor is helpful for your heroes.
Good luck. Experiment and practice in smaller games.

Selsaral
30-03-2007, 14:22
When I face high elves I am most scared by their magic. Vaul's Unmaking is terrifying, and they can cast it several times including having it bound on the Ring of Corin. Keep a close eye on your enemy's face when you destroy the Staff of Change. Have some tissues ready for his tears.

If you are playing against beasts, be ready for beast herds to unruly forward. Charge from one side with a chariot, so that they rank up facing that way, and then hit the newly created flank with silver helms from the opposite direction. You'll break them in two. My high elf opponent almost always has a unit of silver helms and a chariot on both sides of the field for this eventuality.

Lots of bolt throwers too, in case your chaos opponent has the balls to bring something big to the fight.

luckysevens
30-03-2007, 15:26
Hi,

I'm also a relatively new HE player, so can tell you a few things, hopefully they'll help. As you've not really said anything about your/your opponent's army, I'll try to keep it general.

With HE it seems you can go roughly 2 ways - heavy cavalry with lots of magic, or a sort of half and half, 'balanced' list, with big(ish) blocks of spearmen supported by smaller cavalry units, some shooting and magic. Personally, I prefer the second one, but I think it can be quite a difficult army to win with (that could also be just me being crap, but I think a lot of people say the same).

The main thing to think about with both types is that you units are very fragile. Big blocks of spearmen, threatening as they are with their extra rank of s3 attacks, will get minced by most armies' comabt units. That's not to say they're useless, far from it, but you can't leave them hanging out to dry and expect them to hold out for long. Support them with small Silver Helm units or chariots.

Similarly, the cavalry, although fast and (relatively) hard hitting, can only get a 2+ save - I know 'only 2+' sounds a bit daft, but when you're toughness 3, and most good enemy units will be s4/5/6 you really don't want to be getting many attacks coming back at you. Again, this is not to say the cavalry is bad - Silver Helms and Dragon Princes are some of the fastest in the game, and SH in particular as core choices are great. But you really need to win and break through on the charge, as once you lose your lances, you're down to relying on good old s3 again. (Quick note about DPs - don't be fooled into thinking they're some kind of amazing 'strike' unit, they really aren't. I've found the most useful thing about them is the ability to carry magic banners - Banner of Sorcery/Standard of Balance are both good)

So I guess what I'm trying to say is you really need to pick your battles. Resist the temptation to charge straight in, and try to manouevre so that you can attack single enemy units with several of yours - spearmen + chariot or spearmen + SH/Reavers in the flank, for example. Obviously, that's easy to say, not so easy to achieve - for me, it hardly ever goes off as planned, but very satisfying when it does.

This has already turned into a bit of an essay, so I'll try to keep the rest short:

- don't go overboard on the characters, they're too expensive, and you'll never be able to make a combat monster to take on a Chaos Lord. Use them to boost the units you've got - maybe try to think what your opponent will use and work towards what you're lacking e.g. Blade of Sea Gold vs chaos knights, Ring of Fury vs furies etc. Heavy magic could be a way to go, if that's your inclination. Banner of Sorcery on the DPs and using both magic rings can help this out - Ring of Corin especially is great for wiping out evil Chaos swords of death.

- most of the honours are not worth taking, with the exception of the mage ones - Seer, Channeller and Silver wand turns a level 2 into a (nearly) level 3, and the ability to pick your spells is huge. To disagree with the Old Scholar, Swordmaster is pretty useless - at 40pts you can't give your character anything else really worth having, and it restricts you to being on foot, so that's t3 3+ save vs shooting (inc. enchanted shield) and 5+ in combat - not gonna last very long. I prefer mounted commanders, with the cheaper items - Helm of Fortune is very good, Foe bane can be handy

- Chariots are great, but watch for s7

- RBTs and Eagles are also good. RBTs to take out support units guarding other enemy units' flanks (volleys only), or (if your opponent is silly enough) flank shots on any knights. Volleys can also be effective against big nasties like Giants - but pick targets and concentrate on them until they're no longer a threat. Eagles can be used for so much, and are a bargain, but against Chaos it's going to be mostly march blocking and re-directing - no warmachines to hunt, and the mages are too tough to suicide charge with any real hope of success. Shadow warriors and Reavers could serve the same purpose. Be wary of using Reavers as flankers as they will die very fast, but they can be your best bet as they're so manouvrable.

What else? Banner of Ellyrion can be nice for charging through woods, but will probably only work once.

Something to watch out for are Chaos spawn. Sure, there are much more threatening things in a Chaos army, but with t5 and unbreakable, they can be a real pain, tying up units for a long time.

Well I think I've rambled on enough, hope some of that's of use. Wouldn't normally have written -quite- so much, but I remember when I was first starting looking for help in vain :-)

Something I did find, which has lots of good stuff on it (including a good article on army building) was www.asur.org.uk

MalusCalibur
30-03-2007, 22:22
Advice on High Elves?

Wait until December to play them, that's my advice.

The Old Scholar
01-04-2007, 09:51
Very insightful and useful advice for anyone, Luckysevens...
But, I have to disagree about the uselessness of Swordmaster.
I've used it in many games and have killed all sorts of enemy lords and heroes with it--as long as they are man-sized, of course.
I had a Prince with this honor wearing the Armor of the Gods--available on PDF--that granted the user a 3+ save and +1 Strength. With the Killing Blow ability I laid waste to many an impetuous foe. This character and his lesser hero form, always travelled in a unit of Swordmasters. All this said, you use what appeals to you and a decapitating elven, Armor of the Gods wearing, swordmaster is by far the coolest thing next to Toshiro Mifune's Yojimbo.
Oh, and I like the banner of the Lion with the Dragon Princes or the generic War Banner.
And yes, you are exacting in your advice with using each unit in support with others.
So Hesperus, a big thing to consider in the beginning of the game, in order to fulfill some of the advice that Luckysevens has given, is to place terrain carefully. It seems a bit silly talking about Sun Tzu, but he wrote a great deal about choosing your battlefield, one that has terrain befitting your army and confounds your foes. This won't work in the latter sense, but it will deffinitely benefit you if you consider the placement of hills and forests carefully as well as any other terrain types you may include in your games. Remember choosing tablesides often depends on a die roll so be balanced in your placement.
Crap, I hope this helps.

Jedi Manly
01-04-2007, 10:22
The best approach is to play to the strengths of the High Elf; speed, magic, shooting. Today I played a balanced army two level 2 mages, 2 Bolt throwers, 10 archers, reavers with bows and 5 shadow warriors.
The key is between the magic and shooting phrase combined I am able to do lots of damage. The ability to choose your spells with the seer honor is awesome, as mentioned earlier combined with silver wand and add the channellor honor (can use one extra dice) and you have one scary mage for 180pts. Choose the Metal lore and watch those Chosen Knights sweat as you cast Spirit of the Forge!
Use the Shadow Warriors/reavers to block marching/harrass war machines or hunt wizards and your on your way!:)

luckysevens
01-04-2007, 19:03
Ok, so maybe calling Swordmaster 'useless' was a little hasty :)

I was mostly thinking of Commanders, but I guess it could work on a Prince. Have also seen people raving about the Armour of the Gods + Blade of Leaping Gold combo. Rather than the Killing Bow, though, I'd say the main perk would be s7 - finally a HE would be able to chew through armour and wipe out chariots with a swipe :) But KB hardly ever comes off (great when it does though) and there are lots of things completely immune to it.

Overall I still think it's a bit of a risk though, to be honest. T3 and a 3+ save that you can't improve isn't that durable - granted, in combat there probably won't be that many alive to hit back, but it would only take a little bad luck for him to be in trouble. And maybe more importantly, he's on foot. Where does he go? Pretty easy to avoid, if stuck in a big unit of spearmen/Swordmasters/White Lions (all of whom are pretty soft targets for any shooting/magic). And roaming around alone he'd be massively vulnerable - that save wouldn't last long against magic missiles, let alone war machines.... And should he go down, he could set you back: 125+40+35+100(general)+100(pure of heart) = 400pts.

Obviously I'm looking at worst case scenarios, but after the first game you play with the uber-prince, opponents will remember, and deal with it quite easily, if only by avoiding him completely. It could be fun, especially in bigger games, and I loved the idea of it when I first saw it (Also I think the on-foot character model with the Greatsword is the best in the range :)) , but I doubt in the long run it would pay off.

Generally if I take a Lord at all at 2000pts it'll be an Archmage, as they're much more versatile.

If I did have a Prince, he'd be mounted, either on a monster for the fun of it, or more likely on a good old elven steed - can beef him up to a healthy 1+ re-rollable save and still make him mean(ish) in combat, if you want, with the advantage that he can actually get around the battlefield and charge out of units etc so you can really get your money's worth. Maybe more useful though would be something like Lion Guard, to fulfill a particular role, rather than just 'kill stuff' :)

(Thinking about it though, could do some mean things with the on-foot Prince with spells like Steed of Shadows....)

The Old Scholar
02-04-2007, 03:01
Heh-heh, yeah, you make some good points. My friends know I will always field an angry prince to thwart their Chaos armies. Shooting is non-existant when facing Chaos and I am able to dispel most of their magic. Marching my hero/prince in a unit of Swordmasters is often a safe and deadly delivery system. When my prince is mounted on a steed I have three cavalry units to choose from depending on how he's equiped. The number of prince combos I'm able to bring against them keeps them guessing. A brilliant tactic is the Ring of Ruin.
I like Jedi Manly's suggestions as well.
It's weird, but the guy that originally posted this thread hasn't responded to anything that we've written.
Oh, I have a question. Has anyone used a hero or prince with the Shadow Armor placed with a unit of Shadow Warriors? I'm looking at this but I'm scared of it failing miserably.
The last prince combo I used was Blade of Sea Gold, Vambraces of Defense, Dragon Armor & shield, mounted on a chariot only to watch him get butchered by some Khornate piece of crap with some shield that wounded my warrior every time I wounded him. Whatever!
I had this whole Iliad idea going with my heroes pulling up in their chariots and issuing challenges. That ended swiftly after that brutal ass beating. Oh well.
Yeah, really hard army to win with these days, but still fun. Should be interesting to see what Adam Troke has in store for us. I have great faith in his skills. Currently in the rumors thread he is heralding the greatness of griffons. Hell, wouldn't that be nice to see a new plastic griffon?

Elven Lord
02-04-2007, 17:54
[QUOTE=The Old Scholar;1434542]Has anyone used a hero or prince with the Shadow Armor placed with a unit of Shadow Warriors? I'm looking at this but I'm scared of it failing miserably.[QUOTE]

I've used prince with shadow armour & bow of seafearer (the 3 strength 5 shots one)

After first turn of shooting from the shadow warrior unit, watch as your opponent runs & hide -

Who needs waywatchers

The Old Scholar
03-04-2007, 05:34
Yes, the Reaver bow, actually, but yeah. I hate the idea of putting my Lord out with a unit of skirmishers, but it seems viable.
I'm too caught up in my writing projects to game these days, but I'd love to test this.
I've used a similar character in a unit of Reavers to varying success and focused on hunting enemy sorcerers and war machines. The frustration of losing that many points to either a quagmire of combat or other misfotunes makes me very hesitant.

Elven Lord
03-04-2007, 08:54
Yes, the Reaver bow, actually, but yeah. I hate the idea of putting my Lord out with a unit of skirmishers, but it seems viable.

Sorry Reaver Bow - Plus i meen Hero not Prince,

That would be such a waste of points

SirKen2
03-04-2007, 14:11
I played a match aginst chaos last week and found haveing everything and anything to stop thier fire spells works wonders. Arch mage with the lv + annulain crystal, disspell staf +1 dispell works well. I also used a crap load of ranged weapons to thin them down as well as I could then had my helms flank it was a magical sight

Von Wibble
04-04-2007, 12:46
Unfortunately illegal - you can't have a staff of sorcery and annulian crystal on the same model as they're both arcane items. Only dispel scrolls and power stones are exceptions to this rule.