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View Full Version : FIRE DRAGON. worth it?



eleveninches
30-03-2007, 20:12
I read the rules on this on forgeworld, and it is an awesome monster. the only down sides to it are its points cost and its poor armour save (3+ scaly skin)

i was wondering how it would do in 1000 point battles (1 fire dragon vs 1000 points army). Also, what would a lord be like on this dragon?

I was planning a way unbalanced army (as i AM getting the chaos firedragon by the end of the year).
Chaos lord (mark of tzeentch, lv 4 magic, crown of everlasting conquest, enchanted shield, berzerker sword, fire dragon mount)
2x10 warriors with mark of tzeentch, shields (one with banner of wrath)
5 screamers
15 horrors

Shallowain
30-03-2007, 21:50
Dragons are the most iconic creatures for a fantasy setting and the forgeworld one is a bloody brilliant one.

Is it worth it? As a display piece with the possibility to be used in the odd game that occurs it is definitely. But, if you simply look at it for pure gaming value it is most certainly not worth it.

looking at this big forgeworld kits for a pure gaming perspective is usually pointless regardless of the game. These are centerpieces for your army, not something for common use.

Hywel
31-03-2007, 01:05
I wasn't even aware that it had rules. :eyebrows:

Buy it as a painting project, not as the bastard big brother of everyone's favourite Tzeentch dragon army.

eleveninches
31-03-2007, 12:07
i was getting it as a display piece, and might use it as a normal dragon, but i doubt it is worth 960 points, as it had no ward save and a poor armour save, but it might do well against some 1000 point armies, as it has a lot of wounds, attacks etc...

Vattendroppe
31-03-2007, 18:25
As long as you paint it up really nicely.

I'd say about what has been said, not too much for gaming purposes, but definetly a centerpiece and awsome display!

eleveninches
01-04-2007, 11:24
i reckon that with a few modifications to the rules listed on that site, it could be a good monster to play against with a 1000 point army:

+1 strength to flame attacks
double width and length of flame template used
increase scaly skin to 1+ when not in combat
double flight range from 20" to 40"
immune to instant-kill type attacks
regeneration
+1 to hit when attacking it with missile weapons

Wings of Doom
01-04-2007, 19:28
Chaos lord (mark of tzeentch, lv 4 magic, crown of everlasting conquest, enchanted shield, berzerker sword, fire dragon mount)
2x10 warriors with mark of tzeentch, shields (one with banner of wrath)
5 screamers
15 horrors

Illegal army list- only two core at two thousand points.

In my opinion, it doesnt need any improvements (and shouldn't really have rules) but looking over your 'improvements':



+1 strength to flame attacks
double width and length of flame template used

I can see why, but still extremely hardh. You could get about twenty-five models under that size template.



increase scaly skin to 1+ when not in combat
double flight range from 20" to 40" Insane- that flightrange means an automatic first turn charge. There's a reason nothing has a basic movement of more than twenty inches, and that reason's first turn charges.


immune to instant-kill type attacks

Allready is...


regeneration

Insane...


+1 to hit when attacking it with missile weapons
Allready a large target...

Lexmechanic
01-04-2007, 20:07
Can you even use it as a mount?
If I recall correctly it has no rules for being a mount, so you have to take the lil one if you wanna ride.

Linkusmax
02-04-2007, 11:47
It is not a mount, and cant be used in under 3000points (Unless your an High Elf army using the Emperor Fire Dragon rather then the chaos version).

It can be effective in a 3000 Point game, its a weird build though

Dragon Lord
Loremaster 3x Dispel Scrolls

Dragon Lord
Vambraces, Enchanted Shield

Asarnil The Dragon Lord

Emperor fire Dragon

4x 5 Silver Helms (HA and SH)
5 Silver Helms with Standard anc champion (HA and SH)

2994 points

kiron
02-04-2007, 16:13
um....you do know that the only reason the fire dragon is broken is not due to its fighting strength or insane toughness, it's the fact that it's freaking US 30 and causes terror! Against anything that is not unbreakable that's instant break as soon as the dragon deals 4 wounds! (cancels 3 rank bonus and standard) and the dragon wins by larger US! with 8 attacks, on average 5-6 hits, and wounding on 2s is average 4-5 wounds which is enough to break any infantry unit/elite or strong calvary in a frontal charge! think of how many freaking standards the dragon alone can rack up....

eleveninches
02-04-2007, 16:36
i just realised that the fire dragon has scaly skin 2+ with s5 flame breath.
I was thinking of the chaos one that has 3+ scaly skin and s4/s2 flame breath

eleveninches
03-04-2007, 16:18
maybe give it the following rule:

roll a D6 at the start of each turn and apply the according rule (only applies for that turn):
1: dragon cannot move or shoot flames for a whole turn, as he is overcome with pride and feels too powerful to bother with lesser races. (dragon can still fight back at -2 WS if he is attacked in close combat, and if so, he always strikes last regardless of initiative)
2: Flame attacks get +1 S
3: Flame template can be increased to a one with double the area of the normal one
4: Dragon can fly up to 40" instead of the normal 20"
5: Dragon is immune to magic
6: Scaly skin becomes a ward save

Maelx
03-04-2007, 18:22
why would the dragon be confused?

Wings of Doom
03-04-2007, 19:32
maybe give it the following rule:

roll a D6 at the start of each turn and apply the according rule (only applies for that turn):
1: dragon cannot move or shoot flames for a whole turn, as he is overcome with pride and feels too powerful to bother with lesser races. (dragon can still fight back at -2 WS if he is attacked in close combat, and if so, he always strikes last regardless of initiative)

"I'm so proud I'm going to allow myself to be beaten up!". This is an immensely stupid rule- being proud isn't going to stop one of the worlds greatest predators from killing puny prey.


2: Flame attacks get +1 S Its flames randomly get stronger/hotter?


3: Flame template can be increased to a one with double the area of the normal one
It's flames randomly get bigger? And you should really clarfiy that 'double the area'- does it mean just a template of the same size or twice as big (I assume so)? Because area doesn't confirm shape.


4: Dragon can fly up to 40" instead of the normal 20" It's randomly able to fly better/faster? Also, "Oh, I rolled a four on the first turn. First turn charge. Opponents first turn- everything takes terror tests". Increadably broken still.


5: Dragon is immune to magic It randomly becomes immune to magic? Does this include magic weapons and attacks that are magic, or just magic in the 'conventional' sense?


6: Scaly skin becomes a ward save It just (thats right...) randomly becomes divinely/magically/supernaturally protected? How did that happen? And, a 2+ wardsave? Insane.

Overall, there are five out of six chances of getting a positive bonus, and one of getting a negative bonus. Isn't that just a little unbalanced? It doesn't even need any of these rules- most of them don't make sense.

Please put some more thought into rules* before you write them.

*As such, they should also be in the rules development forum.

eleveninches
04-04-2007, 16:33
why would the dragon be confused?Hes not confused, hes just overconfident so doesnt think other races can harm him, and are not worth his time

Art
04-04-2007, 19:49
Sounds like a guy in his bedroom made those rules.

eleveninches
05-04-2007, 17:04
just a way to try and make the forgeworld rules worth 960 points