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Altair
02-04-2007, 00:21
Been wanting to start this game for years and having got some chaos ships from Hulkster in a trade I am now looking to build up a full fleet.

Anyways, my starter 1500pt force:

Desolator
-Ld 8 Chaos Lord, Mark Of Khorne
(I know MoK isn't the best mark but I have always liked Khorne the best

Acheron Heavy Cruiser

Carnage
Carnage

Devastation
Devastation

5 Infidel Raiders

= 1500pts total. 1 Battleship, 5 cruisers and 5 escorts. Any advice?

fracas
02-04-2007, 00:31
both the carnage and devastations are great choices imo, even better with 2 each

the archeron i have no experience with and don't see much of a usable role
some would tell you to stay away from a battleship at 1.5k but somehow for korne it seems fitting

DarkAzrael169
03-04-2007, 07:11
If you do take a battleship imo, the desolator is the best. Good choice with the devestation class.

Chimera
03-04-2007, 09:12
Acheron is a vicious little ship. Just sit it near your battleship and use it to lance something that's lost its shields. Real nasty.

Altair
03-04-2007, 10:53
well if the list ain't got no problems, this will be my new Chaos fleet then. Now to just find 4 more Cruisers and some opponents in Leeds area :)

horizon
04-04-2007, 07:24
Good list and indeed add the Desolator.

the Archeron *could* be replaced with the more all-round Hades, also do not forget the vicous power of the Slaughter class.

Zhai Morenn
04-04-2007, 10:21
Give the Desolator a CSM crew and you are set. Also MoK is at it's best when on the Desolator and here's why:

The Desolator is the 3rd fastest battleship in the entire game, clocking in at a respectable 25cm. Now heres where things get nasty with a CSM MoK Desolator- you are fast enough to get close and board someone within a turn or two and you are almost guaranteed to win- let's look at this example of such a desolator boarding the most resilient (to boarding actions at least) ship the IN has- an Emperor class

Boarding Values:
Desolator + MoK + CSM: 24
Emperor: 17

You both roll your D6
Lets say you roll a 1. You then add 2 for being CSM, add 1 for higher boarding value, you can almost guarantee a +1 for blast markers by having another ship shoot the target.
End result: your roll of 1 translates to 5, and it will be 6 if the enemy is on SO. If you had rolled even a mediocre number like 3, you could easily outclass any enemy in a boarding action (except the Ork Hulk).

You can do even better against smaller ships since you will almost always have double their boarding value. So while it's possible to lose still in a boarding action, it's highly unlikely.

DarkAzrael169
05-04-2007, 05:11
Even though their is a difference in points I would like to know how a Desolator would neutralize a Lunar Class Cruiser with its torpedoes screaming torwards you? For tactical reasons?

IncrediSteve
05-04-2007, 06:09
By launching some torpedoes straight back at it, the torps detonating each other as per the rules, is one option.

Or maybe just letting them hit, gunning about half of them down with it's 4 turrets, then slamming it's own 9 torpedoes into the poor Lunar?

Also a chance it's long range Dorsal Weapon Battery could take out the torps.


Either way a Desolater has little to fear from a single Lunar. Now, take two Lunars for the same approximate price as the Desolater, and things change a little bit.

But then battleships only really factor into larger games anyhow, and are meant to be supported by cruisers and/or escorts.

DarkAzrael169
05-04-2007, 06:12
What about a murder calss?

Zhai Morenn
05-04-2007, 10:49
Murder against a Desolator? The Desolator would probably laugh it's self silly as the Murder tried to get through the shields.

Or if you are talking about a Murder squaring off with a torp-happy Lunar, I'd say turn to avoid the torps if possible, rely on your turrets or just shoot at them with your prow lances, once you get into close range it just turns into a brawl anyhow.

fracas
05-04-2007, 12:04
combined arms
use the devastation fighters to take out his torpedo waves

Vladimir Deathblade
05-04-2007, 15:26
Opponent in the Leeds area you say?

I don't have much of a fleet at the moment (Crusers and escorts, upto around 1000points) If you don't mind fighting chaos of course!

Getz
05-04-2007, 16:56
Good list and indeed add the Desolator.

the Archeron *could* be replaced with the more all-round Hades, also do not forget the vicous power of the Slaughter class.

No, the Acheron is the right coice for this fleet. The Acheron has perfect synergy with the Carnage and Devestations, all kicking out maxiumum firepower on the beam. The Hades is perhaps a bit better one on one, but as a member of a Squadron the Acheron is much superior (and a bit cheaper).


Even though their is a difference in points I would like to know how a Desolator would neutralize a Lunar Class Cruiser with its torpedoes screaming torwards you? For tactical reasons?

By getting one of it's escorting Cruisers to launch fighters and take down the Torpedos... Seriously dude, think outside the box - Gothic, more than any other game, is not about individual units fighting individual units (hence my reasoning that the Acheron is better than the Hades).

Or alternatively, how about this for a poser - How is a Lunar Supposed to fight a Carnage standing off on the Beam at 60cm and battering it with battery fire every turn?

Zubb
05-04-2007, 21:02
There are generaly to ways Chaos plays:
abeam to opponent;
closing to opponent.
Murder, Slaughter are for 1st variant (backed by 1-2 Devastations or a Despoiler)
Carnage, Devastation are for the second.

The Deavastation is simply THE BEST cruiser in the game. For only 10 pts you get the same broadside as Lunar, 1 more turret, +5cm move, and 4 launch bays that easile neutralise the Lunars torps.

The more devastations the stronger your fleet is. But as our comunity watches BFG as a friendly-game, leaving the sport for WFB&W40k, we've introduced a home rule, that you must have less Devastations than the total number of over cruisers.

IncrediSteve
06-04-2007, 00:00
That, and the Plastic cruisers are too precious and rare to max out on all the same thing just for competition's sake.

Altair
06-04-2007, 00:18
Opponent in the Leeds area you say?

I don't have much of a fleet at the moment (Crusers and escorts, upto around 1000points) If you don't mind fighting chaos of course!

Aye, trying to get some of the guys in GW Leeds to get building up fleets. So far there is myself (chaos), 1 tryanid and 1 possible Imperial/ Tau (hasn't decided yet)

I'm still waiting for my order of 4 crusiers and a blister of Infidels from GW online- got the rules and counters from online downloads.

Looks to be a fun game which isn't too expensive so might aswell be giving it a try (plus the models look cool)

Thanks to all who have given me feedback on my fleet composition :D

Getz
06-04-2007, 01:35
There are generaly to ways Chaos plays:
abeam to opponent;
closing to opponent.
Murder, Slaughter are for 1st variant (backed by 1-2 Devastations or a Despoiler)
Carnage, Devastation are for the second.

Hang on a second, haven't you got those mixed up? The Carnage, Devestation and Acheron are for engaging the opponent Abeam, whilst the Murder and Hades are best for closing with the oppont and then unloading those broadsides once you break their formation.

The Styx can do either, but I prefer to have it hang back and pump out air support, and the Slaughter is a great outrider adn vanguard unit, but develops it's best firepower on the beam.


The Deavastation is simply THE BEST cruiser in the game. For only 10 pts you get the same broadside as Lunar, 1 more turret, +5cm move, and 4 launch bays that easile neutralise the Lunars torps.

The more devastations the stronger your fleet is. But as our comunity watches BFG as a friendly-game, leaving the sport for WFB&W40k, we've introduced a home rule, that you must have less Devastations than the total number of over cruisers.

No argument from me there. Even for gunnery duel oriented fleets like mine the Devestation is essential because it can contirbute to the long ranged firepower whilst giving each cruiser squadron organic fighter cover. The are the very lynchpin of the Chaos Carrier fleet build...

DarkAzrael169
06-04-2007, 07:04
Whats up with the "Planet Killer?" And in comparison to the Space Marine Nova Cannon?

IncrediSteve
06-04-2007, 08:31
Think of the planet killer as an extra nasty battleship with a 90cm "Nova Beam", as in it is a beam that does the same thing as a nova cannon blast.

[Also this post makes me a librarian. Hooray]

DarkAzrael169
07-04-2007, 07:30
So how good are the Chaos escorts (Infidel, etc...) and in comparison to Space Marine Escorts (Hunter Destroyer, etc...)?

fracas
07-04-2007, 15:29
escorts are not as crucial to Chaos as they are to the Imperial navy

i would not make direct comparison between CSM escorts and SM escorts but i think SM can probably be played without any escorts at all. while the same can be said for CSM, it is a bit more challenging to do so.

Getz
07-04-2007, 20:45
Iconoclasts are very useful for screening you capital units and cheap with it, whilst Infidels are probably the best conventional Torpedo destroyer in the game, possessing both armour and speed, plus a respectable gun battery (for an escort).

Personally I've never found much use for Idolators, although I'm told they're great in raid scenarios...

ReDavide
07-04-2007, 21:43
My main problem with the Chaos escorts is that they're butt-ugly. Have any of you ever tried using proxies for them? How did your opponents respond? I have a few brute ramships, but it bugs me that an opponent would have no idea what sort of escort they are just by looking at them - I'd like to find something whose WYSIWYG is a bit more obvious.

The sleek-looking rogue trader escort is a shoe-in for an Idolater I think (alien tech theme and big lance-ish guns), but I'm not sure what ships could fill in for Infidels and Iconoclasts while being WYSIWYG enough for an opponent to tell what they are.

Altair
07-04-2007, 21:53
I kinda like the design of the Infidels- though I don't like the bridge desgin that can be seen here: http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk?do=Individual&code=99060802004&orignav=300808

Thankfully you get random bridge variations in the blister packs.

IncrediSteve
08-04-2007, 00:57
Idolators and Infidels look great if you clip off those gaudy cannons pointing in every direction. Trim up the bridges [and for the love of gork don't use any of the bridges or cannons that look like giant skulls], clip the guns, and use the standard 4 barrel plastic cruiser turrets for the lances, and they look darn good. My project log will feature these some day, just need to snap a pic or two and it's set.

fracas
08-04-2007, 17:10
i take a squadron of inconoclast because i kinda like how they look

DarkAzrael169
09-04-2007, 20:34
The SM Hunter Destroyer is a good torpedo boat. 35 cm, 5 all around armour, 2 prow torpedoes, 1 weapons battery and some good leadership. And cheap to, for what it has.