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lust_
03-04-2007, 11:04
so I get the hero free and then I have 500 Pts to spend on units and 50 for magic Items I have the following models
48 skinks
2 skink cheif
skink priest
40 saurus
2 jungle swarms
stegadon
old blood on carnosaur
any advice would be apreiceated

Kroxhandler
07-04-2007, 10:10
I'm guessing you're building a border patrol list (500 pts max, 1 char, limitations on rare/special slots)?

Anyways, at 500 pts you don't have a lot of options I'm afraid. I recommend taking a slimmed down Scar-Vet. for the leadership and general hth prowess. Don't overdo the decorations, keep it simple with mundane equipment and as few blessed spawnings as possible.

Skinks are your friend at 500 pts, get some and try them out. Don't take them in large units, they're still going to die....That's their whole job, standing in the way of the enemy, pelting them with poison and then taking the heat when the enemy retaliates. Rather them than your saurus. I'd recommend 2 units of 10 skinks at 500 pts, pipes or javelins is a tricky question, try one of each and see what works for you.

With the new rules for swarms Jungle Swarms aren't as good as they used to be. In the good old days (2006) you could stick 3 bases of swarms up anyones nose and they'd be trapped for several turns. Now they will get squashed by combat resolution, though they are still good against large monsters since they have poison (and monsters usually have little armour, just high toughness). At 500 pts I say leave the swarms at home.

An Oldblood or Stegadon is out of the question, one is a lord-choice and the other takes up far too much points to be of any use. The Steggie needs a little support if you want to take on an entire army. Still, if you want to go bananas with a large monster feel free, it's bound to be loads of fun for at least a couple of turns.

If you're after some practical suggestions for a reasonably robust army worth 500 pts I'd say try this:
1 Scar-vet(La, Sh)
19 Saurus(Full command)
2x10 Skinks
That should even out at 467 pts, leaving some room for improvements.

The lone unit of Saurus might be a bit vulnerable, it would be nice to have some flanking units or 25 models in the units but there isn't much points left. Keep the saurus flanks clear by shooting anyone coming close with poison. Magic is just going to have to suck, without a Shaman (a.k.a. priest) there isn't much to do about it.

Another road to try would be to go with multiple units of skink skirmishers and one or two units of Kroxigors. A very fast list with good offensive capabilites, only trick to it is to get the Kroxigors in a flank charge, else they will be beaten by combat resolution. Hence the 2 units of them, with 12" charge range they should complement each other well enough.

Hope this helps a bit along the way, making small armies for Lizardmen isn't all that easy.

Rodman49
07-04-2007, 16:57
I'd have to agree with the above post of taking a mundane Scar-Veteran for your general.

On the other hand I would try taking MSU rather than one block of 19 Saurus - just so you have more actual combat effective maneuver units.

Maybe something like . . .

1 Scar Vet
15 Saurus with Spears and Shields
10 Saurus with Hand Weapons and Shields
10 Skinks

Put the Scar Vet with the 10 man Saurus squad and you're hot to trot.

Dead Man Walking
08-04-2007, 02:38
If I were playing a 500 pnt list I would not worry too much about saurus warriors since horde armies are going to hand you your can anyways. On that note I would do a mostly skink list.

Now I am not going by exact points because I dont have time but my list would be based on manueverability and shooting. I would field 3 units of skinks, a unit of 2 salamanders and probably 2 units of kroxigors that are 4 strong. If you cant field more than one mage I would probably go with a suarus character on a coldone.

Kroxhandler
08-04-2007, 20:52
Seems like the really big bonus of using a Scar-vet. for a general is when using massed skinks, regular saurus won't benefit one bit from the general's influence. The rest (skinks, salamanders, kroxigors etc.) gets upgraded to really topnotch troops in terms of morale, coldblooded Ld8 is close to unmodified Ld9, which is pretty good. The really depressing downside is that the Scar-vet. sucks up a lot of points (justified IMO) and leaves you wide open for magic-heavy armies like Vampire Counts, Tomb Kings or High Elves. The other option is to take either a skink Chief(watered down version of a scar-vet.) or a Priest which would give you zero leadership but some magic defense. I'd say a lvl.1 Priest with the Diadem of Power could do very well in low point games. It would take up an entire 20% of the army but is adaptable to both defensive and offensive use of magic, though with a somewhat limited list of spells.

I'm afraid Dead Man Walking's (and my) suggestion of taking multiple units of kroxigors suffers from a serious lack of points. With barely 500 to spare, one unit of kroxigors is draining the coffers, two units is just too much. Just consider the minimum requirements of fielding 2x3 kroxigors with 2x10 skinks for support: 468 pts....that's 32 pts left to buy a general....You could trim away a unit of skinks to afford a weak Priest or perhaps a Chief but not much else. I'm afraid without sacrificing all the skinks in the army there isn't much room for multiple units of heavy-hitters as expensive as Kroxigors.

Going MSU with Saurus might actually work against some armies but like Dead Man Walking suggests hordes will probably be difficult to handle. Also a missile heavy (magical or mundane) could probably rip apart the small units without much effort, High elves with a Repeater Bolt Thrower and Silver Helms would be just murder. I reckon the tattered remains of the unit of Saurus would just bounce of enemy ranked units, doing fair enough damage but losing due to ranks, outnumber and standards. MSU also requires, as far as I've gathered, some units to be expendable in order to get charges off, which is really hard to afford with only 500 pts available.

A salamander (maybe two) might be really good in small battles, I've used them a number of times myself with varying results. They move fast, have a decent range and are often overestimated by the enemy. Against armies with a lot of armour like Chaos or High Elf cavalry, the sallies aren't much good but they really are excellent at picking out small enemy support units. Any wood elf player will probably throw everything they have at the sallie, it only takes on round of autohits to realize how much potential damage they represent, as will anyone relying on archers parked on top of a hill.

One suggestion would be to combine a unit of Kroxigors (for hth offensive manouvers) with the general shootyness of skinks and a salamander(a good bargain by any standard). Throw in a Priest with the Diadem to ward off magic missiles and you've still got some points left!

An even 500 pts:
1 Priest(General, Lvl.1, Diadem of Power)
16 Skinks
3 Kroxigors
2 Salamander Hunting Pack

High mobility, heavy hitters from both Kroxigors and Salamanders(just don't get the skink handlers in the way). A little too much skinks in one unit for my taste but you need 10 to form a unit so that would mean dropping a salamander, which leaves too few points over to be of much use. Still, it might be a fun list to try, even though 2 sallies is a bit cheesy in such a small battle. You could replace the Priest with a Chief or even a unequipped Scar-vet for the Leadership boost but I vote for having some magic defense.

Dead Man Walking
08-04-2007, 23:31
Good points, I think however I would drop the diadem for a level 2 mage upgrade. Extra spell, extra power dice.

A unit of 2 salamanders in a 500 point game is easily going to tip the scales in your favor. Your hindered by low points but so is your enemy. 10-12 wounds to -any- unit is going to hurt your opponent, horde or not.

You are going to want a mage, not a scar vet. We played warbands recently in my gaming club and the Gobbo & Skaven armies did the most damage cause they could afford to buy 2 mages. I came in second place with an all spider rider army and no mages. I chose manueverability. It worked well.

Dead Man Walking
09-04-2007, 01:09
You also may conscider taking a Tepok Sacred Hosts list. (Google it) I am not sure if you would need who ever is running the events (or your opponent if its not an event) permission but you can always ask.

With Tepok all core can take tepok's mark and still count as core. On saurus it adds 1 dispel as long as they remain on the table (even if running). On Skinks (Yes, blessings on skinks!) they get 1 magic resist die. Your priest is forced to use light magic instead of heavens which is not as powerful as heavens but everything is easier to cast (Most spells go off on a 5 or 6) but the effects would help your army well. It is more damaging to undead and deamons. It can give a skink priest better fighting skills. IT CAN HEAL WOUNDS ON KROXIGORS AND SALAMANDERS! It can make an enemy unit ws 1 (Great for those average ws massive strength kroxigors to open a can of whoop ****). It can rally fleeing troops and make them immune to psychology (Careful of this one as you may want your skinks to flee sometimes) and a dmg spell for all opponents within 12 inches.

I cant really see any other blessings being worthwhile for skinks to take (As they can already pass through water, really dont want to be in combat for + attack or +scaly skin, and can already pass through woods.

Dead Man Walking
09-04-2007, 01:27
Note: This is in the GW sacred spawnings list:
"These rules are official. The armies decribed herein can be considered balanced for all styles of play."

So you dont need permission.

Rodman49
09-04-2007, 05:12
Wow, I had not that at all about Salamanders, not a bad idea guys.

@ Dead Man Walking . . .
Gobbo magic was that effective at 500 pts, can you explain further. I know that Skaven absolutely dominate at 500 pts, two warp lightning throwing engies and two ratlings guns easily fit in 500 pts and will maul any army, but what's so good about two Gobbo mages?

Kroxhandler
09-04-2007, 09:40
I've actually found the sacred host of Quetzl to be quite effective on skinks, armed with javelins and shields that is. Even if they are T2 they get a 4+ save, which will drastically alter their survival rate, though not make them that great. It makes for some interesting encounters, as most players (myself included) does not count on being charged by skinks and will happily advance against them trying to get within charge range themselves.

That's when the kamikaze skinks attack! Charge! Since you're skirmisher you should get a good number of skinks into combat, causing minor to moderate damage (they have S3 after all) and taking moderate to heavy casualties in return. They don't do well against ranked units of course but against other skirmishers or support units they actually manage to pull a victory every now and again. This will give you an advantage if you decide to scout with any skinks, they can charge archers and warmachines on turn 2, with a reasonable chance of winning or at least stalling them. An additional bonus is that the mark of Quetzl is dirt cheap, it costs less than a champion upgrade.

The lore of death (i think) that the Priests have to take isn't all that bad, there are some nice damage spells, especially against highly armoured foes. Steal soul is rather good against enemy characters with little magic defense, as they are bound to have only one and have built their army around that character. Making skinks cause fear is also a hilarious opportunity, just imagine your opponents face when the defending unit fails their test and bravely runs away from the charging skinks....used in combo with kroxigors it could actually be a real killer tactic.

So, I recommend everyone to experiment with sacred hosts, you just might find something useful there.

EndlessBug
09-04-2007, 10:27
the thing with the Tepok list is it gives skink characters/units MR 1 not +1 Dispel die.

Still good IMO, I use this list for bigger games. It soaks too many points in smaller games.

lvl 1 skink Priest with Diadem is useless, lvl 2 is a must, with lvl 1 you can only convert 1 PD to DD a turn, and 1 DD to PD, where those 4 PD you cannot use due to lvl 1 mage being able to cast 1 spell with a maximum amount of dice being 2 (therefore 2 dice are wasted). lvl 2 is the ONLY way to do it, giving you either 5 PD and 2 DD or 2 PD and 5 DD allowing lots of defence or 2 spells at 2 dice and 3 dice respectively.


My Suggestion :
Scar Veteran - Tepok, Light armour, Shield, Quetzl
14 Saurus - Standard, Champion
10 skinks - Javelins & shields
3 Salamanders

Dead Man Walking
09-04-2007, 11:39
I played gobbo calvary (Spiderriders, wolfboys, snotling pumpwagon and squig riders.) I could avoid missile fire with terrain, but magic was sure death for me. 1 mage I could handle, 2 I could not. d6 str 2 hits no save, 2d6 str 4 hits, all 6's count as 1's (No poison from spiders), d6 str 6 hits, getting a movement in the magic phase would surely ruin my day.

I would not suggest average saurus in a 500 point game, they cost too much and have no manueverability. Any horde list is going to have 2.5 units of rank and file to your one and that means they can out flank you easy. The skaven player had 2 units of warriors, 2 units of slaves, 2 mages, and 2 ratling gunners. His mages were engineers so they got the 2d6 str 5 hits spell. At one point he had a warp canon.

Also remember that Salamanders can charge and do a great job at combat. I would move them or the kroxigor in a flanking formation. The advantage to the kroxigor is that they remove flanks, its harder to do though and most people will choose to face the kroxigor. The salamanders can flank easier as they are skirmish. Most people won't expect you to charge with the salamanders.

lust_
09-04-2007, 19:19
unfortunitly last week i was playing aginst a skaven player and by the time i did reach him it was to late my skink shields, sallamanders and saurus were gone leaving fleeing units everywere but second game my skinks manged to chase most of his army away and last game against a O&G army was a landslide in my faveor the extre 30 points i won really helped i used the folowing troops
10 skinks
skink warchief
10skinks
slamanda
10 skinks
scar vet on cold one (free)
saurus 10

the next day came a high elf player by this time i had 535 points so i gave scar vet light armour he chose to deploy HE spearmen, cavelry(were his genral was) and archers
first i sent my saurus into the open but about 20 skinks were close to ther flank and i decided to take the sallamander to his arches using a nicky placed wood the cavelry harged the skinks and with ll ther might the mighty skinks fledleaving him in range of about 20 poison shots in the as you can gues cavelry didnt make it next came the spearmen the saurus absalutely owned them they fled and the saurus caght up about 2 turns later the salamander finished the arches so in all hte army ilsts you provided were good i took difrent aspects of them and used them to produce a goodarmy i forgot to mention only level 1 wizards are alowed unlesss you have a wizards tower
special thanks to dead man walking