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Jackster
04-04-2007, 03:55
I play Empire and i always wander what lores are more effective normally.
Fire seem to be good with all the destruction it cause, but its not that impressive either.
Heaven seem to be the best, with spells that help your units and comet is devestating.
Light also seem useful, much like heaven, especially against Chaos.
Metal is awesome against Brets and Chaos.
Anyone has more insight and experience on Magic lores?

Vattendroppe
04-04-2007, 05:15
You seem to have understood that you must use different lores depending on what you plan to do with them. I almost always use fire or heavens, but that's mainly due to fluff reasons, fire's darn good when you're trying do devestate things, heavens also. IIRC (don't have a BRB at home [shame]) beast is good when you've got lots of cavalry and when you meet lots of cavalry, shadows is fun when you've decided to go schneaky and surprise with characters etc. while death is... Well, death. Life is good for battles with lots of terrain and if you've got monstrous creatures that you want too keep alive extra long.

Elven Lord
04-04-2007, 07:11
Taken from Asur.net

Good breif indication what each lore has, but the way to chose is based on what opponent you are facing



Fire: Needs Range
Magic Missile + Flaming Lore
Lore Specific Spells Generalized Spells
- 1 Special Damage Spell - 2 Basic Magic Missiles (d6 and 2d6)
- 2 Straight Line Magic Missiles - 1 Mage Booster Spell

Metal: Needs Range
Anti War Machine + Equipment Lore
Lore Specific Spells Generalized Spells
- 2 Anti Armour + Weapons Spell - 2 Basic Magic Missiles
- 1 Anti Magic Item Spell (weak)
- 1 Anti War-machine Spell

Shadow: Needs Range
Friendly Support Lore
Lore Specific Spells Generalized Spells
- 1 Unit Movement Spell (fixed distance) - 1 Anti Infantry Spell
- 1 Character Movement Spell - 1 Anti Armour Magic Missile
- 1 Fear Spell - 1 Shooting Protection Spell

Beasts: Needs Range
Anti Beast + Beast Support Lore
Lore Specific Spells Generalized Spells
- 2 Anti Beast Spells - 1 Magic Missile
- 1 Unit Movement Spell (random distance + beasts only) - 1 Auto Rally Spell
- 1 Mage Booster Spell

Heavens: Unlimited Range
Damage without Need Line of Sight Lore
Lore Specific Spells Generalized Spells
- 2 Re-roll Spells
- 4 Damage Spells that don’t require range or line of sight.

Light: Needs Range
Anti WS and BS Lore
Lore Specific Spells Generalized Spells
- 2 Anti WS and BS spells - 1 Mage Booster Spell
- 1 Healing Spell - 1 Basic Magic Missile
- 1 Auto Rally Spell

Life: Unlimited Range
Damage + Terrain Lore
Lore Specific Spells Generalized Spells
- 2 Anti Movement Spells - 2 Shooting Protection Spells
- 2 Terrain Based Damage Spells - 1 Basic Magic Missile

Death: Needs Range
Anti Psychology Lore
Lore Specific Spells Generalized Spells
- 1 Multi Unit No Armour Save Spell - 2 Basic Magic Missiles
- 1 Anti Psychology Spell - 1 ‘Fight Back’ Spell
- 1 ‘Steal a wound’ Spell


I always take a chart somewhat like this when I go to battle. The idea is to look at the lore specific spells and choose which spell you want to really get off. With seer, you can choose the spell you want and some other filler spells like magic missiles. Magic missiles are great because they are not always high casting value and your opponent will want to dispel them. Let me give you 2 examples.

Example 1: Vs Gun-line Empire with a Mixed List
Empire’s number one weapon is devastating shooting and war-machines. The lore that automatically comes to mind is Metal because of its anti war-machine spell (but it doesn’t have any other useful support spells). However, if you look at the other lores you will notice that there are two other missile defence spells, one in shadows and two in life. When examining the other spells in shadows I see that there are 3 others that might help me against empire; the fear causing spell, the extra movement spell, and one anti infantry spell. However, the shadows anti- shooting remains in play, so it can be dispelled by my opponent in his magic phase before he shoots. Also, the movement spell might not be too helpful as I don’t have an all cavalry army and I will not be looking to engage him immediately. When looking at life, I notice that one of the anti shooting spells is not remain in play, and can potentially shut down whole units for the whole game. More importantly though, I realized that missile troops will most likely be deployed on a hill, and therefore master of stone will be an excellent choice. I would decide to go with Lore of Life.
Example 2: Vs Brettonia with an all cavalry list + dragon
Brettonia has a ton of heavily armoured knights, so id be looking for something that negates armour. Metal is a good choice as it can destroy the lances, but I’d also like a lore that maximizes the dragon. I could take beasts because I have an all cavalry army and so does my opponent, but the opponent has formed into a tight center with the ld 10 general nearby, so they have good leadership. I would go with death, and choose a magic missile, drain life and doom and darkness. Doom and darkness puts a unit at –3 leadership for potentially 2 turns. Against a dragon causing terror this would be very effective. Also, drain life lets me nail multiple units with no armour save damage at one time. The 2d6 St4 magic missile is just there to soak up DD and scrolls.

Tutore
04-04-2007, 07:22
Everyone has his most beloved lore. I decide the lore my wizards take when I know which race is playing my opponent. Rulewise I can do it. I don´t rely on heavens and light (bad number 1 spell), doubt on shadows (fine, but still often unuseful numer 1 spell), never tried life (but looks fine); fire is ok, metal and beast are ok, the best one (I think) is still death.

Crube
04-04-2007, 08:27
This is one of my main problems with my Empire army - chosing which lore to go with. Sure in friendly games, there are certain lores that are musts onc eyou know what youre against, but in Tourney scenarios, you have to take the same against allcomers (well I assume you do...)

Thats kinda why I'm looking at a more anti magic list at the mo, though undoubtedly that will change in a week or so time :rolleyes:

Tutore
04-04-2007, 10:12
This is one of my main problems with my Empire army - chosing which lore to go with. Sure in friendly games, there are certain lores that are musts onc eyou know what youre against, but in Tourney scenarios, you have to take the same against allcomers (well I assume you do...)

Thats kinda why I'm looking at a more anti magic list at the mo, though undoubtedly that will change in a week or so time :rolleyes:

I don´t think that in a tournament you have to choose a standard lore. At least not in those where I played.

balthier
04-04-2007, 10:45
I havnt really used any lores besides the WE lore of Athel Loren.

I have had the fire lore used aginst me by the empire and it had some good advantages, besides the fact that i basically use trees

Frankly
04-04-2007, 11:04
I take magic in my list for a reason and thats to get rid of skirmish units, so usually I go fire since I'm going to get a lot of damage spells.

I really like Heaven as why, it works well with shooting phase.

TheStrategist
04-04-2007, 17:44
With the new change in the Rulebook, Death is by far the most damage causing, folowed by Fire and Heavens. What I want to do when the new Wizard sprues come out is to make a wizard for every Lore, to have every type at hand. But yeah, each list has at least a couple of spells which are worth considering. I usually took Heavens (in previous edition) to get those nessessary re-rolls, but have tried pretty much all others to varying degrees of success.

My humble 2 pennies.

Jackster
08-04-2007, 04:25
Death is good, but all the spells are hard to cast, aside from first spell.
Heavens totally helps with shooting, in fact they saved my Crossbowmen several times in Stand and Shoot. (shot down Centigores, Furies and panic away a beast horde.)