View Full Version : Imperial and/ or Space Marines vs. Chaos? What Works?

05-04-2007, 05:51
I'll try to make this as short as possible.
Hi I played my first game of Battle Fleet Gothic last fFriday and I decided to start a army in BFG. I have a army in 40k (Dark Angels). I lost in a game of 500 points of ramming Orks, I played Chaos, used three cruisers, I forgot what they were. (The other player had just started playing too, his second game, both Chaos). I like the Imperials, Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines. I donít know what army to start. I have downloaded the BFG sections of the rulebook, basic rules, advanced rules, tournament rules and scenarios. The only ship stats are of the Murder Class and Lunar Class (Chaos and Imperial). I have read up to ordnance rules in basic rules.

I have also been reading the threads for BFG for the past week to get a general feel. I need to get a general direction as where to go in choosing. That was until I played myself with the two cruiser stats (Lunar and Murder); before hand I wanted to play the Imperials and/ or Space Marines and design them like DA ships (I like the nova cannon and the front 6 armour). Now I'm not so sure. I want to know the pros and cons of the three armies. This thread will be devoted to tactics and opinions. I need to get a general direction as where to go by Friday, so please any input and help will be great.
Sorry for me being a noob.

05-04-2007, 06:17
You need to get "Ships of the Gothic Sector" first and foremost.

This is the section that has all of the ship stats and fleet lists for each of the core races.

All of the armada sections are pivotal as well, they're named things like "To Cleanse the Stars" and other Cryptic [though admittedly cool] things that don't really tell you anything until you download and read them, then renamed them something helpful.

Really you need to download just about every article there is and organize them in folders on your PC.

Alternatively, as a shameless plug you could follow my project log [the links are in my signature]. I have a contest of sorts where if you catch me not getting stuff done, within the terms and conditions, you can win stuff. I offer a choice in prizes but one of the prizes would be a mint Brand new BFG 1.0 rulebook. [I can afford to give it away as I have 3.] It's not the most updated 1.5 version, but 1.5 was rubbish for the most part. The .pdfs are are not compressed and take up far too much space [and download time] and the book itself has pages mixed up and rules only partially cited. Best to just ask lots of questions that we'll all gladdy answer at a moment's notice ;)

05-04-2007, 06:25
I have tryed adding "Ships of the Gothic Sector", I can't seem to download it, probably because I nee the most updated version of Adobe Reader. And I have ordered the BFG rulebook, I'll get the Armada rulebook at my local GW ( they were out of the regular BFG rulebooks). The downloaded stuff was to have a basis of something to go through.

So what is good about the fleets in question?

05-04-2007, 10:53
Expensive, I downloaded just what I needed from Armada and printed it.

05-04-2007, 12:05
if you already have DA in 40k, i would say play SM in BFG, that will allow you to tie the two together in campaigns later.
for the SM fleet, strike cruisers are your best friends

05-04-2007, 12:24
I'd say thunderhawks and bombardments cannons are also his best friends ;).

The SM fleet is very, very tough.

05-04-2007, 18:34
I'd say thunderhawks and bombardments cannons are also his best friends ;).

both come nicely gift wrapped in a package we call "Strike Cruisers" :evilgrin:

SM: tough, mobile, but specialized
IN: more varied, but not as tough nor as mobile

05-04-2007, 23:58
Strike cruiser?
Thunderhawks and bombardment cannons?

06-04-2007, 00:06
Space Marines can be found in the Armada document "To Cleanse the Stars".

Strike cruisers are the light cruisers that transport a single Company of Space Marines.

Bombardment cannons are the subtly named weapons Space Marines use to pummel ground-based defenses before launching an assault.

In space combat, they are short ranged weapon batteries that cause more criticals and do damage more easily.

Space marines don't do quite as well in protracted long range duals, having a major deficit in ordinance and long ranged weapons. The Thunderhawks they do have [in small numbers] are resilient to damage and can be used as fighters or as assault boats.

Space Marine escorts are more expensive but also superior to their Imperial Navy Counterparts, much faster being the main advantage [some of them are even faster than chaos stuff.]

06-04-2007, 07:00
What about the destroyer or something that DA really seems to like? It seems that Space Marines are just like chaos, but only Chaos gets special stuff. Just like in 40K :).

06-04-2007, 08:37
Actually they are very different in BFG, aside from boarding and leadership.

Chaos Marines just use standard Navy vessels as their transports, meaning it's all the standard ship to ship combat focus with Chaos Marines just thrown on board.

Space marines have dedicated Strike Cruisers and Battlebarges which are unique vessels, and only make use of Thunderhawks as their attack craft.

All of their ships are designed to get the Marines on the ground [or on board the enemy's ship], and then provide orbital support, with some weapon batteries thrown in for taking out orbital defenses and for personal defense from attack, though Marines will prefer to capture defenses and ships when able.

Finally Space Marine escorts are unique constructions that fulfill the same niches the main 3 Imperial escorts, but are faster [and better designed with more advanced tech one can imagine].

Zhai Morenn
06-04-2007, 16:53
Well while SM and CSM are very similar in 40k, it's quite different in BFG. Main reasoning being that after the Horus Heresy, Robard Guilliman redesigned the Imperial heirarchies so that Space Marines had mostly planetary/exterminatus oriented ships that suffered in space, the Imperial navy and the Imperial guard all being separate entities so if there is a high ranking traitor in one, it is unlikely that they will be able to make much progress without the others.

SM Capital ships are among the most resilient ships in the game, being heavily armoured and well armed once they are able to bring the Bombardment Cannons to bear. SM Escort ships are probably the best humanity has to offer.

Nova class Frigates are resilient against ordnance thanks to their 2 turrets. Also they have wide fire arcs for their lances and batteries alike which allow them to present their harder to hit sides to the enemy as they engage. Faster than any ship in the Chaos armada.

Gladius class Frigates are also resilient against ordnance and are frightningly powerful battery boats. (also they have really nicely done models from Forgeworld). Only Slaughters can match their speed.

Hunter class Destroyers are amazing. 40 points of escort gets you a 35cm moving ship that can launch either 2 torps or 2 boarding torps. Absolutely beautiful.

07-04-2007, 07:23
I played my second BFG game today, Friday. A combined list of Imperial and SM. I lost my fist game ever and tied my game today. I played Orks, same person I played first time. Space Marines are good. Don't like Imperials because their slow, heavily armoured, short ranged and horrible at boarding.

Space Marine Strike Cruiser
Imperial Tyrant Class Cruiser
Upgrades (Nova Cannon, all weapons batteries 45 cm)
3 Hunter Destroyers
500 pts

The Hunter Destroyers work because DA likes them in the fluff, and their good; wow I don't know what to do with the other crazy good escorts. I did not know that the torpedoes could also be boarding torps. After the game I decided I would start Chaos or Space Marines. I like Chaos for the options, speed and definetely the Planet Killer. I like Space Marines for their escorts, Strike Cruisers, and Battle Barges (which I have not used yet). I am so confused.

How can I get my Space Marines, if I start them to be better at boarding? Because if I started them it would all be assaulting close range.

Hows this:
Space Marine Strike Cruiser
Space Marine Strike Cruiser
Hunter Destroyer
Hunter Destroyer
Hunter Destroyer
Hunter Destroyer
Hunter Destroyer
490 pts

Are Chaos escorts any good anyway?

I'm going to Brookhurst Hobbies tomorrow (Saturday) to get a fleet (GW at LA Battle Bunker dosen't have any) and I don't know which one to start. Tournament coming on the 28th of April, need to get the models and start painting soon so please help. Please help me, opinions please.

Zhai Morenn
07-04-2007, 11:15
Chaos is easier to play than the SM, mainly because Chaos is fast, has average durability, plenty of long range weapons, and a wide selection of possible upgrades and ordnance types (Marks, Daemonship upgrade, CSM Crew, etc). Also: You can get the Planet Killer, one of the coolest and most sinister ships in the 40k universe.

Chaos escorts are alright:
Infidels are average torpedo boats but can also launch boarding torps since they are chaos which is handy.
Idolators are actually one of my favorite non-eldar escorts in concept- especially since it is the only escort with 45 cm guns.
Iconoclasts are cheap, but weakly armed and thinly armoured.

Space Marine capital ships (Strike cruisers and BBs) are much more resilient. A SM SC can match the speeds of most chaos ships and can outmanoeuver all but their escorts, which could prove quite handy. SM's aren't typically good at 1 on 1 boarding actions but two SCs boarding an enemy cruiser tends to work out rather nicely. They can Ram with less risk of taking damage and never underestimate a SC squadron combining bombardment cannons at point blank range.

Personally I thinik I like the dynamics of the Space Marines more but then again I like challenges and it is a challenge to use the SM s well. I really wish that Strike Cruisers were a little more variable but thats a topic for another thread. If you can make use of terrain and other special circumstances which favour your greater manoeuverability and close range firepower, you can win.

07-04-2007, 15:27
seems like you enjoy the SM
again i endorse you start SM
and while it is possible to play a combined SM and IN fleet
i would go with a pure SM force.

07-04-2007, 19:20
Really helpfull. And I must agree that the Strike Cruisers should be more variable, it even says so in its fluff! Any tips on how to beat the other fleets using Space Marines will be helpfull. I have to go I'll continue on this when I get back tomorow. I'm going to get my fleet now, I'll be back tomorrow.

Zhai Morenn
08-04-2007, 11:14
Against most standard fleets, such as chaos, orks, IN, Tau, Tyranids, etc I would say that your goal should be to render as many weapon systems on as many ships as possible inoperable due to H&R attacks from boarding torps and thunderhawks. Once an enemy target is unable to return fire effectively, you are free to either concentrate fire in close quarters or to move onto disabling another warship. I once played against 3x Chaos cruisers with my 3 SCs and 3x Hunters and managed to render the weaponry on one of them ineffective, and then I hid my Hunters in an asteroid belt so they could remain unmolested while the SCs dogpiled one of the remaining cruisers in a boarding action which crippled it. Basically the SM's are at their best when they can use their ordnance to diminish incoming fire and then use their guns or combined boarding actions to bring a target down.

Against Necrons, you have a shift in how you should fight, since most Necron capital ships will repair H&R damage before the turn is even out untill they get reduced to a few HP. So Thunderhawks and Boarding torps are less effective unless you can just pile the H&Rs on beyond their number of hitpoints. One advantage you do have is that the Necrons never generate blast markers for getting shot at so you can fire batteries and bombardment cannons without suffering detrimental shifts to one of them on the gunnery table. In this case bombardment cannons are your friends, so bring SCs and Nova frigates.

09-04-2007, 20:38
In this case bombardment cannons are your friends, so bring SCs and Nova frigates.

Thats exactly what I take now, maybe with a few Hunter Destroyers and definitely Battle Barges.

Grand Master Raziel
21-04-2007, 23:08
Dark Az, take the advice of someone who's been there: do not make Space Marines your starter fleet! I made that mistake. Played that fleet for an entire year before I figured out that it was a bad fleet. It's outclassed by all the other fleets in the game, especially by Chaos.

Chaos would probably make the best starter fleet, with the Imperial Navy being a not-terribly-close second. If you really, really need to have Space Marine ships, you can use the Armageddon Fleet List (found in the Armada book) to include some SM ships in your IN fleet.

06-05-2007, 17:00
Grand Raz, I am surprised you saw this thread (Very Old). I have been playing with my Space Marine Fleet in some tournaments at GW along with small games. Their good. However, I have been theinking about this fleet:
(Keep in mind that Daemonships can move when they come in, just not shoot or be shot at). Mark of Slaanesh is -2L to enemy ships whithn 15cm and daemonships have a -1L 15cm, because they scare people (Haunted Ship) And thats cumulative... If you have the Strike force pop in or around the enemy fleet and then just have Carrier Force chill back and unload wave after wave of bomber and shoot away with long range weapons...

Strike Force
Chaos Repulsive Class Grand Cruiser/ Daemonship, Mark of Slaanesh
Chaos Slaughter/ Daemonship, Mark of Slaanesh
Chaos Slaughter/ Daemonship, Mark of Slaanesh

Carrier Force
Chaos Desolator Class Battleship/Warmaster,
Chaos Devestation Class Cruiser
Chaos Devestation Class Cruiser
Chaos Devestation Class Cruiser
Chaos Devestation Class Cruiser
Chaos Devestation Class Cruiser
Chaos Devestation Class Cruiser
Desolator not worth it, field way more ships for its price?

06-05-2007, 19:34
(Keep in mind that Daemonships can move when they come in, just not shoot or be shot at)

Are you making this a house rule? Because in actuality Daemonships can't do anything but sit in place and scare people until they become fully materialized. The way it's worded in Armada you wouldn't pause to think that they couldn't, but in the FAQs and several articles it's clearly stated that they cannot move.

Quite lame really and I encourage a house rule for it even if you weren't.

08-05-2007, 01:59
So you can't move them when they come in, thats not right. When you go in and out of the warp your MOVING, and in Battlefleet Gothic you can't just STOP... WOW