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Zombie Cow
30-07-2005, 21:31
Quick question:

I seem to remember reading something somewhere that said when a Character with Magic Resistance joins a unit, he gives that entire unit the benefit of Magic Resistance. Is this a real rule somewhere or did I just make it up? :confused:

Thanks!

Sylass
30-07-2005, 21:36
It was covered in a Q&As thingy that was published shortly after the release of the Bret's armybook (to fix the "Damsels & MR" rule):

Q: If a character has Magic Resistance and joins a unit, does the whole unit benefit from that Magic Resistance?

A: Yes

Zombie Cow
30-07-2005, 21:58
Thanks! So I am not going crazy. However, do you know where I could find this on any of the GW websites? Or is it published in one of the Annuals?

Thanks again! :cool:

Sylass
30-07-2005, 22:32
I know that it's part of the GW forum's Q&As thread (http://uk.games-workshop.com/apps/eshare.pl?do=ReadThread&BoardID=2&ID=3003347&template=uk).

I'd guess it's part of the 3rd version of the Chronicals/Annual too, but I can't check right now.

Griefbringer
31-07-2005, 11:23
And of course there is precious little in the actual rulebook to support this ruling.

Yet another "lets invent a new rule but put it into Q&A so it looks like it is actually in the rulebook" sort of rule.

I think that the earlier interpretation of the text in the rulebook was that a character with MR only gives it to the unit if a spell affects all the models in the unit.

mageith
31-07-2005, 13:00
I think that the earlier interpretation of the text in the rulebook was that a character with MR only gives it to the unit if a spell affects all the models in the unit.

On page 139 "A unit is considered to be the target of spell if any of the models in the unit are affected by the spell." So: A magic missile hits a big unit of like-sized models with a magically resistant character in it. The character is immune to the affects of the magic missile. Yet the character lends the resistance to the unit?? GW says it does, so I guess it does.

On the other hand if a spell somehow targeted only the character who was with a bunch of trolls, the trollic magic resistance would clearly protect the character even though the trolls would not be directly affected.

Mage Ith

GodHead
02-08-2005, 19:35
It's especially bad when you compare the points costs of EVERY SINGLE Magic Resistance item that includes the phrase "and his unit", to EVERY SINGLE Magic Resistance item that lacks this phrase. The ones which include "and his unit" are on average 25% more points than the ones lacking that specification for the same amount of Magic Resistance. You can claim cross army comparisons aren't fair, but when EVERY ONE of the items that state "and his unit" cost ~10 points more per MR dice than the ones lacking it, someone cocked up at GW headquarters, and my opinion would be the dumbass who wrote the "Worst FAQ Ever" (title may be superseded by the Ogre FAQ if they every become un-embaressed enough to make it official instead of just a stupid "sneak peak").

Selsaral
08-12-2005, 18:51
OK, I am bumping this again to provoke further discussion. This topic came up in my 'spelleater shield' thread.

I agree, I dislike the fact that magic resistance is always conferred to the unit, it goes contrary to the item descriptions and their points values, but we're stuck with it until someone can bust this Q&A quote up.

Someone have the ability to chop it up?

Threch
08-12-2005, 19:33
The points above about the items having the clarification 'and his unit' being more expensive makes a lot of sense to me. I would not at all be surprised if this Q/A answer was not well thought out or verified with other members of GW staff. The specific wording on some MR items seems to be more than a coincidence, which the Q/A answer indirectly implies.

At the same time, it does not seem entirely unreasonable to assume a character is 'affected by' the damage to the unit he is in. It seems that a character fighting in a unit is 'affected' by the unit strength and/or rank bonus that is provided to that combat result. Would it not also be reasonable to think that he is 'affected' when the said unit strength/rank bonus of his unit is reduced by a ranged attack, even if it does not have a chance of causing damage to the character?

oma
08-12-2005, 20:54
if a character is inside a unit and has MR, and the unit is targeted by a spell (2d6 s5) they do not gain MR cause the char is not affected, but if the char is sigled out then he might gain his rightfully MR cause then he is affected

SuperBeast
09-12-2005, 10:34
For magic resistance, there are two criteria I go by (unless the item's rules override this).

The unit must be a/the primary target of the spell.
If the character has MR and the unit does not, then the character must be a potential target for the spell (provided condition 1 is satisfied).


So, painting with a broad brush (these examples assume only the character is magic resistant)-
Magic missile cast at unit with more than five models - character may not be hit, therefore MR cannot be used.
Magic missile cast at unit with 5 or less models - character may get hit, so MR can be used.

With any spell that uses a template (regardless of whether or not a "Look out sir!" roll is required), if the character is touched by the template then MR can be used.
If a spell affects all models in a unit, then MR can be used.

mageith
09-12-2005, 12:51
For magic resistance, there are two criteria I go by (unless the item's rules override this).

The unit must be a/the primary target of the spell.


Primary target? I think you've made something up there. One of the two things necessary as a general rule for casting spells is to name it's target. If the unit is even just one of the targets of the spell, it's a target. A unit is either a target or it's not. Primary target is a house rule, IMO.



If the character has MR and the unit does not, then the character must be a potential target for the spell (provided condition 1 is satisfied).

I think we all played it this way until....

MAGIC RESISTANCE Q. If a character has Magic Resistance and joins a unit, does the whole unit benefit from that Magic Resistance? A. Yes St Patrick Day Q&A 2004 (On the GW website)

SuperBeast
09-12-2005, 13:11
Primary target? I think you've made something up there. One of the two things necessary as a general rule for casting spells is to name it's target. If the unit is even just one of the targets of the spell, it's a target. A unit is either a target or it's not. Primary target is a house rule, IMO.

Nah, just a clarification.:D There are plenty of spells where the unit the spell is cast on has an instant knock-on effect onto another. Good example being the TK Incantation of Righteous Smiting; the effect of the spell causes the unit to affect another, but MR is not usable.


I think we all played it this way until....

MAGIC RESISTANCE Q. If a character has Magic Resistance and joins a unit, does the whole unit benefit from that Magic Resistance? A. Yes St Patrick Day Q&A 2004 (On the GW website)

Fair point, well made - and I concede. Thanks for the clarification:angel:
But as I stated, "unless the item's rules override this".
Much of this thread has been arguing over demarcation, and having that precise info would have helped a lot earlier; I was just trying to pass on what has been used in the past by people to settle these disputes.

Morph
09-12-2005, 14:26
On a similar note, if a character with MR joins a unit with MR do you just use the highest value or do you add them together when the whole unit is the target of a spell?

And similarly if something confers magic resistance to a unit that already has it, what happens. E.g. a magic banner gives MR 1 to nearby units, what does it do to a unit which has MR 1 already?

Is this clarified anywhere? It caused arguments the other day...

Atrahasis
09-12-2005, 14:35
On a similar note, if a character with MR joins a unit with MR do you just use the highest value or do you add them together when the whole unit is the target of a spell?

And similarly if something confers magic resistance to a unit that already has it, what happens. E.g. a magic banner gives MR 1 to nearby units, what does it do to a unit which has MR 1 already?

Is this clarified anywhere? It caused arguments the other day...

MR specifies a maximum number of dice. Having the ability to add up to 2 dice twice still limits you to adding up to two dice.

MR does not stack.

Major Defense
10-12-2005, 20:56
It's really quite quaint, these house rules that some of you have made up to restrict magic resistance. With all due respect, I believe that the thread starter was asking for a rule clarification. Mentioning house rules in a tone suggesting that they are written somewhere official only adds confusion to an already complex myriad of official Q&As. Selsaral's spell eating shield sounds like it would pass all of it's benefits on to the unit. Otherwise it would be a rather useless lord-level item.



Here is another quote to solidify Atrahasis' answer to Morph's question about multiple sources of MR in a single unit...

Q. If a unit has multiple sources of Magic Resistance (e.g. MR(1)
from a character and MR(2) from a magic banner) do we add the
sources together for the MR value to apply or do we simply
apply the highest value?

A. Apply the highest value.
S. Gav Thorpe - Warhammer Design Team

GranFarfar
11-12-2005, 20:18
Even if it might be unfair as it is now with MR items being costed differently because of their wording, I belive in general that it is good that characters MR do count for the unit - otherwise I have hard to find it usefull in most cases.