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Brother Pepe
07-04-2005, 16:05
I do stage combat and I've been asked to start training people in longsword and broadsword. It's been a few years (5 if I recall) since I was trained. I was wondering you guys know any good websites or book on swordplay.

I don't need this to 'train' me but rather I would like to see how they show a novice the basics.

I don't care if it's real sword fighting or just stage. You need both for stage combat. I would prefer to keep it to western styles of fighting but there are a lot similarly between east and west. I've personally found the German hand and a half swordplay to be very similar to the katana.

Inflammable
07-04-2005, 19:20
What good is a sword when you can have a gun?

Ass Goblin
07-04-2005, 21:30
Not sure of any sites other than tof google for them. But me and a mate do reanactment sword fighting. Western style with shields. It's quite fun until you take a bastard sword in the knee, I couldn't walk for a week.

EVIL INC
07-04-2005, 22:27
Been doing it myself with swords of all types plus axes, spears flails .. the works. It's great because you learn self defence in a way that scares most people. By learning all of the weapon "types" you can pick up just about any handy object and be proficient in thier use whether it be a pencil or a chair. Since I started 22 years ago, I have gotten to be very good. (Of course, there is always someone better)
As for teaching others, I would reccomend getting a set of shinias (never could spell) or bamboo kendo swords. The length and balence on them are nice and they are easily used to demonstrate tactics and a variety of styles in a safe manner.

It's quite fun until you take a bastard sword in the knee, I couldn't walk for a week.
Try a machete across the ribs or a gig into the crotch or a blowgun dart into your arm bone.

What good is a sword when you can have a gun?
Very good point. However, Many, myself included, find guns to be dishonorable. then again, hand to hand weapons do not run out of ammo or jam. Thier use can teach how to use just about any handy item as an effective weapon for defence. It also allows you to carry "weapons" legally, if you know what items to carry whether it be a long keychain or a cane or any number of other items. Not saying that guns are useless, just that not all like thier use and other items can be mnore versitile. True though, using both is even more so.

Lord Lucifer
08-04-2005, 00:57
What good is a sword when you can have a gun?

Swords work even when drenched ;)

Swords don't need ammo

Swords don't have a safety catch

And most importantly of all, Ninjas don't have guns ;)

neXus6
08-04-2005, 03:08
I was pretty intereted in getting into battle reinactment and the like, but never got round to it. Seems like a lot of fun.

Mind you I havn't even done fencing in a good few years, never mind having done kendo or any other kind of training.

Delicious Soy
08-04-2005, 03:17
Stage sword play requires theatrics for the most part, actual sword duels had a tendency to last less than a minute.

neXus6
08-04-2005, 03:52
Very true...I mean at worst I can get some cash together buy a couple of kendo swords, some BMX armour, and a couple of Icehockey helmets, then challenge my friends. :D

Brother Pepe
08-04-2005, 04:04
Well you can't have a gun because its stage combats. Meaning that it isn't real. The fight between Romeo and Tybalt would be a bit different if Tybalt drew his sword and Romeo drew his 45.

I thought about the kendo swords but they said no to that teaching method.

I do find it hard sometimes to translating real combat into stage combat. Of course the nice thing about stage combat is you don't get hit in the knees with a sword. Well most of the time. I've been hit in the forehead with a spear and hit in the knee with a sword.

The worst I've ever seen is a guy almost got his thumb cut off. That is why I'll never wear poofy shirts.

The real problem is that there isn't a western style teaching place near my town.

Delicious Soy
08-04-2005, 04:37
Just make it very stylised with long sweeping arcs.

EVIL INC
08-04-2005, 11:19
You are absolutely correct about "real" sword fighting not really translating well into "stage" fighting. The theatre students came to me at collage to act in some of thier projects because they knew I "did swords". They tried to get me to do stuff and I would tell them they were crazy. They would also try to get me to "slow down".
A shame you got vetoed on kndo swords. Thats a great way to teach. My buddies and I grew up swinging real swords and axes and stuff at one another (the edges were dulled but points werent). It wasnt till after we had been doing it for 15 years that we discovered the bokkens and kendo swords. :rolleyes:
How about the hardwood swords? They make the bokken and I have also seen the tia chi hardwood swords. The are also good for training in the use of longswords. Although they DO pack a lil more of a whallop.
If you lived close enough, I would volenteer to teach.
Possible options...
1. get sheets of particle board and make "cut outs" of people with the proper hitting areas marked. Make the cutouts in a variety of poses.
2. get a large pole maybe a 4by4 and attachsmaller boards in lue of arms for a more 3d version of the cutouts. Again, make a variety of poses.
Have your students hit in order different spots.
3. develope a kata for them. a series of attacks, defensive moves kunges and withdraws ect and do it repeatedly.
4. FOOTWORK work on thier footwork. dance moves can work. if nessessary, put marks on the floor for them (doesnt work as well with taller or short people)

I mention this thread to my fiance and she said you could try your closest college or uni. They often have proffs who know stage combat in thier theatre departments.

Badgobbla
08-04-2005, 11:29
And most importantly of all, Ninjas don't have guns ;)
Aaaah, but don't pirates have guns?

And we all know pirates are cooler than ninja's, no?

The Phoenix
08-04-2005, 14:13
I've done my fair share of theater over the years, and I think a lot of you are missing a VERY important point about stage combat. (I'm sure brother pepe knows this, this is more for some of the other people.)

Stage combat is to real combat as dancing is to boxing.

Stage combat is, effectively, dancing. It is taught by a coreographer, with very spcific moves and sequences. Training your actors in real combat is a good way to help them look like they know what they're doing, but you still have to give them a specific sequence of footwork, "attacks" and "blocks". The fight can't be different every night, between memorizing lines, making sure they're in the correct lighting, etc actors can't actually be fighting, someone is going to get hurt.

Ever watched a jackie chan movie? Ever single move is painstakingly pre-planned by a choreographer, usually chan himself. Same thing with Gladiator, Braveheart, etc.

-Phoenix

Shadowheart
08-04-2005, 14:28
I continue the quest to find ways of referring to Bleed Like Me (Garbage's album out next week) by quoting from the chorus of one of the songs: "The boys wanna fight, but the girls are happy to dance all night.

Yes, stage combat is certainly acting (well, performing anyway) rather than fighting, but what guy doesn't like to pretend he knows how to fight well? Being able to dance and look pretty on stage doesn't have the same pull on most of them, so making them believe you're teaching them how to handle themselves in an exciting, manly situation they'll never be in could be a handy ploy.

The Phoenix
08-04-2005, 16:57
I almost took a dagger through the stomach once because the yo-ho who I was performing in King Lear with didn't realize that the way you make it look like you're stabbing someone on stage is completely different than how you run them through in real life.

Pretending stage combat is anything but stage combat is very, very dangerous.

-Phoenix

neXus6
08-04-2005, 17:13
Aaaah, but don't pirates have guns?

And we all know pirates are cooler than ninja's, no?

Ah the new Ultimate Question (http://s9.invisionfree.com/Omen/index.php?showtopic=32) :p

At the very worst you just have to go through everything really slowly seeing what works and looks cool, then once you've got what you want down in slow motion you practice till you can do it quicky.

Easier said than done I know.

Brother Pepe
08-04-2005, 17:35
I'm going to have to agree with Phoenix on this one guys. While stage combat is still staged there is still very much an element of danger there at all times.

I've always considered myself more of a fighter than an actor. The problem I found is that the 'stage' is the only place I can really use what I've learned in martial arts, when it comes to hand-and-a-half swords anyways.

I don't think stage combat is to real combat like dancing is to boxing. It's more stage combat is to real combat as Tai-bo (the exercise kick boxing thing) is to boxing. If you want a good looking fight then you'll need your actors to have a martial background.

I have looked in to the nearest college (UF, go gators) which I'm currently on. They don't really have much in the way of teaching stage combat.

I do think the footwork is the most important thing to teach next to maybe eye contact. If you can train your people to have good footwork I think everything else will fall into place. This also applies to real combat.

Which brings up the 'kata', I will have them drilling their footwork with attacks and 'blocks'.

I just want it to be said that I hate slow fights. I have been told over and over again that my fights are too fast and that I need to slow down.

It may just come down to who I end up teaching.

InIronClad
09-04-2005, 05:47
use broadswords! the fools would be so preoccupied with how heavy the swords are, all u have to do is get a pointy stick and poke them. and then they might consider using kendo swords.

arxhon
09-04-2005, 06:22
I continue the quest to find ways of referring to Bleed Like Me (Garbage's album out next week) by quoting from the chorus of one of the songs: "The boys wanna fight, but the girls are happy to dance all night.



I downloaded the album about three weeks ago, and reviewed it.

The summary of the review is "garbage". ;) If you like the really new stuff, then you'll like Bleed Like Me. If you like the old stuff, then you probably won't.

Back on topic: You might want to check out the ARMA at http://www.thehaca.com/

Thewse guys are serious. :)

Shadowheart
09-04-2005, 07:49
If your tastes are so much either/or, then the album's going to be very hit or miss anyway, no matter what your preference is. It's rather varied (might say inconsistent) in itself, but with an even moderately broad musical taste I think it ought to be appreciated.
The only reason I'd see for a Garbage fan to be disappointed (besides the fact that it took even longer than usual and is the shortest album yet) is that it doesn't do much in the way of breaking new ground. Beautifulgarbage at least did that, even if it wasn't particularly succesful (though I still think it was good overal, just below the band's proven abilities and accompanied by horrible b-sides).


Anywho... on topic, I certainly didn't mean to suggest stage combat isn't dangerous. Like with many things people that don't know what they're doing and aren't able to work together well are a danger indeed. Take figure skating, or even some forms of dance. I was just mocking men's eagerness of making such things out to be fighting, even if it isn't.

Rich
09-04-2005, 09:57
I do stage combat and I've been asked to start training people in longsword and broadsword. It's been a few years (5 if I recall) since I was trained. I was wondering you guys know any good websites or book on swordplay.

There was a channel four documentary a while back on weapons, and each episode was about a different weapon. The one about the sword was very interesting, and best of all he explained how to fight with a sword and actually trained a load of people up on using them. I've been looking for the link but I can't find it - does anyone know the program I am refering to?