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Nicho
06-04-2007, 18:13
Hey guys. I've never played necro before but ive played mordheim and figured i'd give the 40k version a go lol.

I'm planning on doing an orlock gang as i like there sort of biker/rebel look. I'm planning on modeling the gang from other gw stuff ( most likely guard) Any of you have some tips or advice on whats good to use for this? I was thinking of using catachans and just green stuffing bandanas and things on them?

cheers

Nicho

Dezartfox
06-04-2007, 21:56
yeah catachans are the best as there the only plastic ones without armour, and you get alot of them too

Nicho
06-04-2007, 22:30
I've written up my gang list. First necro one ive ever done so if its crap go easy on me :p

House: Orlock

Leader: 2 auto pistols,chainsword
Heavy: H stubber, auto pistol
Heavy: Flamer
Ganger: Lasgun
Ganger: Lasgun
Ganger: Shotgun, manstopper rnds
Ganger: Shotgun, manstopper rnds
Ganger: Chain, autopistol
Ganger: Chain, autopistol
Juve: Laspistol
Juve: Laspistol

Cost: 1000 creds

i figure they could work in small groups, say 1 lasgun ganger, 1 shotgun and one chain auto ganger together in a group.

The leader the flamer heavy and the 2 juves could be in another group and the H stubber heavy could be somewhere where he can get a decent field of fire.

What you guys think?:chrome:

Eazy-O
07-04-2007, 12:08
Sounds like a solid gang... However... :)

If your heavy runs out of ammo, the pistol won't help much, he'll prolly be out of range. You're better off giving that pistol to the flamer heavy as he has to pass ammo rolls on every shot and will most likely be in pistol range.

The two autopistols seem a bit strange... I think he could do with just one. Without the gunfighter skill he can't fire both anyway.

I'd prolly try to scrounge around for 20 credits and get an autogun for the stubber guy. I'd prolly change lasguns to autoguns, that's 10 creds. Maybe ditch the manstoppers, you may not need them all that badly for your first game. Or that leader's autopistol. But that's just me.

You're young, you gotta experiment. :P

Nicho
07-04-2007, 12:50
Cheers for the advice. I gave the heavy the autopistol kinda as a back up in case he got jumped by somebody but i guess that would rarely happen. Is the autogun a better choice cus of its better range? or has it got some other advantage ive missed?:)

Think ill ditch the manstoppers and the leaders auto pistol and prob swap the leaders other autopistol for a las pistol. I dont like the idea of these ammo rolls when using autoguns, 4+ seems to likely to fail imo so im gonna try my best to keep my lasguns on my gangers :D

Eazy-O
07-04-2007, 13:32
or has it got some other advantage ive missed?:)

Nope, just for the range. It's unlikely your heavy'll be jumped by someone if you watch out.

Myself i like autoguns, they're cheaper, letting you save some creds to arm more gangers. :)

Major_Gilbear
07-04-2007, 17:13
I agree with Eazy-O pretty much in whole (I love autoguns).

I'd suggest downgrading the Lasguns to Autoguns (-10creds), and dropping both of the leader's Autopistols (-30creds). Give the Flamer the Heavy Stubber's Autopistol, and buy him a backup Autogun instead (+20). That should (I think) leave you with 20 creds to buy your leader a Bolt pistol (make use of that BS4!). A Bolt pistol on your leader gives all his CC attacks a Strength of 4 too.

Also, I'm not a fan of the Laspistols on the Juves, as they are hard to shoot with over 8" and are S3. I'd suggest Autopistols (better to-hit chances when shooting) or a Stubgun with Dum-Dum ammo (gives you a S4 pistol, which is better for CC; you don't have to use the Dum-Dum ammo for shooting if you don't want to).
Autopistols and Stubguns can also be fitted with Silencers if you find any at the Trading Post.

As far as ammo rolls go, you will probably need to pass a few in a game, but not as many as you might fear (the Stubber and Flamer most likely tho). An Ammo roll of 4+ isn't that bad, and if any of your gang is luck enough to get the skill Armourer, they drop all the ammo rolls in the gang by 1! I know you can't rely on getting a skill off a table that isn't one of your gang's regular ones, but my point is that after a few games there are lots of ways of combating any problems you have with running out of ammo.

Oh, and good luck!

Nicho
08-04-2007, 00:49
sounds good but a bolt pistol doesnt seem to be in the orlocks gear list :( though the leader does have 2 chainswords listed for some reason. Maybe its a typo

Catferret
08-04-2007, 02:09
Bolt Pistol should be listed under Leader Only equipment. It is really worthwhile on a BS4 model. And are pretty darn effective on everybody else! Check out Weregerbil's gang (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66579) on my Campaign Thread!

Autopistols are great as far as cheap pistols are concerned. The 4+ ammo is good enough for most cases and they are more accurate than Laspistols at long range.

Ignore Stub Guns! Even with Dumdums they aren't worth it. Take a Club and Autopistol if you want to spend a lot on Juves. Otherwise Autopistol is sufficient.

Nicho
08-04-2007, 14:17
ok heres my refined list :D

Nicho (leader) Boltpistol, chainsword, knife

Heavys
Trent: Heavy stubber, autogun, knife
Locke: Flamer, autopistol, knife

Gangers
Ferrus: Autogun,knife
Brock: Autogun, knife
Marco: Shotgun, knife
Sanchez: Shotgun, knife
Jake: Autopistol, chain
Mick: Autopistol, chain

Juves
Chav-ez: Autopistol, knife
Gin: Autopistol, knife

gang rating: 1321

Territories:
Holestead x 2, settlement x 2, Mineral outcrop

thorgrim
08-04-2007, 17:27
I'd prolly try to scrounge around for 20 credits and get an autogun for the stubber guy. I'd prolly change lasguns to autoguns, that's 10 creds. Maybe ditch the manstoppers, you may not need them all that badly for your first game. Or that leader's autopistol. But that's just me.

You're young, you gotta experiment. :P

You can't give a heavy a autogun. As heavies aren't allowed basic weapons. Personally i would equip my leader with 2 chainswords and a laspistol as when in combat the 2 parries are invaluble more so against other starting gangs. but i agree to give the flamer a pistol as a back up. Also i always give my gangers ranged weapons. Usually 2 with lasguns, 2 with autoguns and 3 with shotguns and manstoppers (i always take 7 in a starting gang). the manstoppers are imo a must have for a starting gang as they are the best way to get strength 4 into a starting gang relatively cheaply.

I would also drop the chains from the gangers and give them to the juves instead. Simple reason being that if a juve knocks himself out you won't be too bothered.

Major_Gilbear
08-04-2007, 21:08
You can't give a heavy a autogun. As heavies aren't allowed basic weapons.
Has this been reviewed in the FAQ (again)? If not, it says quite clearly in the rules under the gang recruitment section that Heavies can take basic weapons!


Personally i would equip my leader with 2 chainswords and a laspistol as when in combat the 2 parries are invaluble more so against other starting gangs.
That's generally considered pretty cheesy actually, mostly because Parry is such a tremendously effective ability. Kinda like giving every ganger a Lasgun and a sword, or a sword and a hand flamer. Tactics like that are only good if your opponents are powergamers, or do likewise; outside that you may well find yourself struggling to get players to fight against as min/maxing in Necro makes it really tedious to play.


I would also drop the chains from the gangers and give them to the juves instead. Simple reason being that if a juve knocks himself out you won't be too bothered.
A fair point, but IIRC the two drawbacks with chains are that you can only use a chain in CC with no other weapons and that fumbles double your penalty. The only advantage of chains is that they cancel your opponent's parries. Since you'd still need more than WS2 to beat your opponent reliably (having not fumbled and cancelled any opposing parries), you'd be even worse off having lost the extra attack from not having a second weapon. Therefore to reliably win with a chain in CC, you need the best WS and the most attacks you can get on the weilding model; i.e. not a Juve.

Eazy-O
08-04-2007, 21:40
You can't give a heavy a autogun. As heavies aren't allowed basic weapons.

'scuse me thorgrim, this isn't personal, but how many ********** times will we all have to hear this? Because, really, i've heard that too many times. Heavies always were allowed to have basic weapons and it's logical that they can have them, come on... Okay, so the Rulebook Mk.II skipped it, but anyone who's played Necro before (first edition) let players arm heavies with basic weapons as well. If logic doesn't do it for you, here's what's in the Necromunda Rules Comittee 2005 FAQ & Eratta document:


Heavies (Page 77). Add ‘basic’ to the list of weapons a Heavy can be armed with.

Also, this comes from the NRC document for 2007:


This means that you could arm your fighter with a Heavy Stubber, shotgun, two plasmaguns, a bolt pistol or twos, some frag grenades, a stub gun with dum-dums, a chainsword, and let’s not forget his free knife either.

If you don't believe me, here's both docs online and official: http://www.specialist-games.com/necromunda/faq.asp

Seriously guys, Necromunda needs to be played with some common sense in mind. If you wanna go rules lawyering you won't get anywhere.

Cheers,
Oskar

Major_Gilbear
08-04-2007, 21:46
Seriously guys, Necromunda needs to be played with some common sense in mind. If you wanna go rules lawyering you won't get anywhere.

Absolutely correct; somebody give this man a beer! :D

Nicho
08-04-2007, 22:27
Cheers for all the advice guys. Still have a week to wait till i can actually have a game. Really looking forward to it. I'll post up pics of my gang once i get them made and maybe even a battle report or to :skull:

Fideru
09-04-2007, 01:02
Well, I don't exactly want to make another thread for the same thing as here. And since it looks like Nicho has been helped, I would like some as well (not trying to hijack, sorry if I am).

I'm trying to get an Orlock gang going and this is how it stands.
(All models assumed to have knife)
Leader with Meltagun, Chainsword 240
Heavy with Heavy Stubber 180
Heavy with Lasgun 85
Ganger with Autogun 70
Ganger with Lasgun 75
Ganger with Lasgun 75
Ganger with Autopistol 65
Ganger with Autopistol 65
Juve with Autopistol 40
Juve with Autopistol 40
Juve with Autopistol 40
Juve with only a knife! 25

As that stands, it is exactly 1000 credits with 12 models.
Anything horribly wrong that I must change?
And I've got to ask, is that too las heavy?

Quin 242
09-04-2007, 01:12
Man are you in luck.. I just put this auction on E-bay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=007&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=170099939686&rd=1&rd=1

There is a great Orlock leader and a heavy as well as a couple Kneeling guys that need weapons.. It would be perfect for an Orlock gang.
The plastics are a little bit smaller so are perfect for juves :)

Major_Gilbear
09-04-2007, 12:01
@Fideru:
I like your list a lot! Maybe drop the unarmed juve and use credits to get the Autopistol gangers a CC Weapon each?
Also I think three lasguns is fine, especially in a gang that size.

@ Quin:
Err, those models don't have half the weapons he needs anyway. Plus, the plastic Orlocks aren't noticably smaller than the Catachans; they just haven't been feeding their steroid addiction. Full marks for your plugging efforts though! :p

Quin 242
09-04-2007, 18:15
What Gang has figures that are tailored to your gang perfectly from the get go...
The benefit to those models is the lack of weapons :)

If I was getting into Orlocks they'd be perfect. But I have Ratskins, Escher, Spyrer, and Cawdor so those can go...

ash_wednesday
11-04-2007, 15:18
@Fideru:
I like your list a lot! Maybe drop the unarmed juve and use credits to get the Autopistol gangers a CC Weapon each?
Also I think three lasguns is fine, especially in a gang that size.


Naw..just give the juve a 2nd knife and let him run around the game trying to ingage H to H combat. If anything, he'll draw some fire on him while your other more well armed gangers are free to shoot people.

Major_Gilbear
11-04-2007, 17:43
@ash_wednesday:
Um, that would require 5 credits more than he has left though...

ash_wednesday
12-04-2007, 15:31
@ash_wednesday:
Um, that would require 5 credits more than he has left though...
Well...he could have one of his other juves give up his autopistol, which would be 10 credits right? Buy two knives. Have two juves with two knives each, running around.

Ozorik
12-04-2007, 16:03
Where do you play Nicho? Im in Middlesbrough ATM and thinking of starting up necro again.

Major_Gilbear
12-04-2007, 17:48
Well...he could have one of his other juves give up his autopistol, which would be 10 credits right? Buy two knives. Have two juves with two knives each, running around.

Nope: that's 15 credits freed up not 10. Also, a knife + Autopistol trumps two knives any day of the week.

Quin 242
12-04-2007, 18:29
except if the auto pistol fails an ammo roll...

Ozorik
12-04-2007, 19:06
Not really as if they fail an ammo roll this means that they probably have at least got 1 ranged hit and ranged hits are safer than melee hits.

ash_wednesday
12-04-2007, 20:20
Nope: that's 15 credits freed up not 10. Also, a knife + Autopistol trumps two knives any day of the week.
Which means the juve(s) will draw fire on them while the more armed gangers can shoot freely. That's what the juves are good for.

Major_Gilbear
12-04-2007, 23:09
@ Quin:
Ozorik is right; at least with the autopistol you can fire if you need/want to. Safer to charge a target that's pinned/down too (assuming you you hit, that is). If not, it still gives you a S3 additional attack in CC. Unless you bungle the ammo roll and still get into combat... But then, it's only a Juve!

@ Ash Wednesday:
Huh? Aside from pointing out that Juves can be used to draw fire (though only as the closest/easiest target), what do you mean? We know Juves can draw fire, but I don't see the connection your'e making with the knives/autopistols?

Plus, if they are not in charge range, I'd rather shoot pretty much any other targets first in preference to a green Juve armed only with two knives (targeting rules allowing as well, obviously).

ash_wednesday
13-04-2007, 20:43
My point is, a juve shooting sucks. Why waste 15 or more crds on someone who can't shoot the side of a barn? Think about it. He try to shoot an usally misses. Chances are he'll get shot at and gets either pinned or wounded. So he's not really doing much except drawing fire to himself.

The juves have a better chance of hitting someone in hand to hand combat. Give him that 2nd knife (saves you money) which gives him an extra attack roll, and have him run at people. If he gets into combat great, if not, he at least he drew fire at a cheaper cost.

And besides, have a model with two knives would look kind of cool (which is a good part of the reason why we play this game. Because it looks cool.)

ash_wednesday
13-04-2007, 20:53
Plus, if they are not in charge range, I'd rather shoot pretty much any other targets first in preference to a green Juve armed only with two knives (targeting rules allowing as well, obviously).
Even better, he can then have a better chance to sneak in for an attack. Also he might be the cloest target which means you'll have to shoot him. And..he won't be a green juve for long. As long as he doesn't die, he gets at least d6 exp per game.

Major_Gilbear
16-04-2007, 19:08
The beauty of the Autopistol is that it has a +2 to hit at short range. So if your Juve gets cold feet within charge range, he can opt to shoot with a pretty good chance of hitting (even with an abysmal BS of 2).
Even at ranges over 8", your Juve is more flexible with an Autopistol. Flexibility is really crucial in Necro, especially in a starting gang.
Finally, when your Juve eventually becomes a ganger, he will already have a gun too, and one which will be useful to him during his career in your gang.

(BTW can you please post once at a time rather than spreading you answer over several consecutive posts; daft as it sounds, it is easier to follow a discussion when ppl don't multiple-post.)

Tomothy
16-04-2007, 22:43
A ganger with an autogun costs 70 creds and can shoot at 3+ to hit up to 12".

A juve with an autopistol costs 40 creds and can shoot at 3+ to hit up to 8".

Are you seriously trying to tell me juves are much worse shots than gangers? I often get to within 8" of my opponents. Start 10-12 inches away, move up, shoot, charge next turn.

Catferret
17-04-2007, 03:31
I agree totally with Juves getting Autopistols. A 3+ to hit is good enough.

Also, if you play a Shoot Out, you really don't want to turn up with a bunch of kids armed with knives when the other guys are packing a Heavy Bolter. "Woo! I react first! I do nothing! Ow! My face seems to be missing now..." True story! :D

ash_wednesday
17-04-2007, 15:41
Also, if you play a Shoot Out, you really don't want to turn up with a bunch of kids armed with knives when the other guys are packing a Heavy Bolter.
Hehe.."Never bring a knife to a gunfight."

Catferret
17-04-2007, 15:46
Exactly. I made the mistake of having Juves without pistols and it cost me the game.

ash_wednesday
17-04-2007, 19:47
actually, if your gangers and juves bring only hand to hand weapons to a shootout, you would get the extra exp for not drawing and shooting first.

AMBS
18-04-2007, 05:56
actually, if your gangers and juves bring only hand to hand weapons to a shootout, you would get the extra exp for not drawing and shooting first.

LOL!! :D
genius.

Angelwing
18-04-2007, 12:11
I prefer juves starting with swords and clubs, going around in groups of 3 and whacking the opposition.

Quin 242
18-04-2007, 12:49
Those guys should get Bowler hats and talk about ultra- violence then retire to the milk bar?

Oh I forgot the suspenders and false lashes :)

Angelwing
18-04-2007, 14:26
Those guys should get Bowler hats and talk about ultra- violence then retire to the milk bar?

yes indeed! a bit of Beethoven (spelling?) wouldnt go amiss...;)

Nicho
23-04-2007, 01:29
Well, well, well. Finally got to have mmy first game or two of necromunda today :D

First game was quite a laugh as, due to my complete noobness, i got two of my gangers takin out of action straight away and after only firing once my heavy stubber packed it in for the day lol.

Second game went better and i actually managed to maim a few of my opponents gangers this time. Go heavy stubber go!! :angel:

A few of my guys were unfortunate to roll multiple injuries followed by 6's so are pretty banged up lol, though i did get a free juve from one of my settlements after the first game :D

Heres how my gang stands at the mo.....

Gang rating: 1446 Type: Orlock Name: The pit crew :cheese:

Territory: 2 x holestead, 2 x settlement, 1 mineral outcrop
Stash: 50 creds, Ratskin map ( +/- 3 to scenario )

m ws bs s t w i a ld xp
Leader: Nicho 4 4 3 3 3 1 4 1 8 bolt pistol,chainsword, Head injury 70

Heavy: Trent 4 3 4 3 3 1 3 1 7 Heavy stubb, autogun 92
Heavy: Locke 4 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 Flamer,autopistol 75

Ganger: Ferrus 4 4 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 Autogun, marksmen 43
Ganger: Brock 4 3 3 2 3 1 2 1 8 Autogun, impressive scars,head wound, left arm wound, old battle wound, shellshock. 27
Ganger:Marco 4 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 Shotgun,manstoppers,hates gang 25
Ganger:Sanchez 4 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 Shotgun,manstoppers,fast shot 31
Ganger:Jake 4 3 3 3 2 1 3 1 7 Autopistol,chain, impressive scars, old battle wound 27
Ganger:Mick 4 3 3 3 3 1 3 1 7 Autopistol,chain, quick draw 35

Juve: Chav-ez 4 2 2 3 3 1 3 1 6 Autopistol, knife 2
Juve:Gin 4 2 2 3 3 2 3 1 6 Autopistol, knife 9
Juve:Scruff 4 2 2 3 3 1 3 1 6 Autopistol, knife 5

Poor brock really took a pounding lol. I think its really funny how a juve's the toughest guy in my gang at the mo lol ( wounds wise)

Nicho
23-04-2007, 01:45
Heres a few pics of the gang too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Nicho2k5/DSC00193.jpg
leader and his 2 heavy pals

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Nicho2k5/DSC00199.jpg
a random ganger, sanchez and marco

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Nicho2k5/DSC00197.jpg
Mick, Jake, brock and ferrus

Nicho
23-04-2007, 01:46
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Nicho2k5/DSC00200.jpg
The juves ( minus scruff the new guy)

apologies for the poor pics. Had to use my phone cam :rolleyes:

Angelwing
23-04-2007, 03:01
poor pics? these are better than the digital cam i've borrowed!
As for the models, looking good!

Anatole Marius
11-05-2007, 13:50
Seriously guys, Heavy stubber and an autogun cannot go on the same model as both are counted as a two handed weapon. Secondly never underestimate the use of lasweapons, that ammo roll resistance is a life saver. Take it from me I've been playing for years and my most successful gang had laspistols on every model as a back up. In the old rules my gunfighter had two plasma pistols, two bolt pistols and two laspistols. This was when plasma weapons were more reliable and their were no restrictions on starting choices.

Major_Gilbear
11-05-2007, 18:04
Seriously guys, Heavy stubber and an autogun cannot go on the same model as both are counted as a two handed weapon.

Nope, that's wrong. This isn't 4th Ed WH40k.

Whilst it is true that heavy and basic weapons count as two-handed, that only means that you can never get the extra attack in CC even if you have two CC weapons as well.

However, aside from being limited to only one heavy weapon, you can still carry as many of any other weapon as you like. Necro FAQ, top of page 4.

The only limitations that I am aware of are WYSIWYG rules. In those instances, all weapons must be shown on the model. Holsters can be allowed to hold any pistol without modelling it and grenades and ammo don't even need to be modelled at all. Equipment doesn't need to be modelled either, but if it isn't then some situations forbid you from using it.

That answers that one. :cool:



Secondly never underestimate the use of lasweapons, that ammo roll resistance is a life saver. Take it from me I've been playing for years and my most successful gang had laspistols on every model as a back up. In the old rules my gunfighter had two plasma pistols, two bolt pistols and two laspistols. This was when plasma weapons were more reliable and their were no restrictions on starting choices.
Uh, I'm not aware that Plasma pistols have changed? Check Page 1 of the Necro FAQ.
And between having one gun with a great ammo roll and two guns with medium ammo rolls, I'd always pick the latter. More flexible you see, and your second weapon doesn't have to be relegated to "backup" status either.
That -1 to hit on the laspistols is the killer for me.

Jedi152
14-05-2007, 17:25
Just a quick aside: It it ever worth giving a starting gang a grenade launcher? Or is it too much of a points sink?

Major_Gilbear
14-05-2007, 20:55
Well, they're not very "competitive"; at least compared to other guns. But then again, I had one in my Redemptionist gang and it was great fun to use*.
They are especially handy if you manage to find any rare grenades. I would suggest that you start with just Frags though; buying Kraks as well makes this gun far too expensive for a starting gang. 160 credits is going to be a big whack as it is.

If you have the model and fancy a change, you could do worse than a grenade launcher.**




*Before the powers that be decides that GLs were somehow unfluffy for Redemptionists and removed them from the weapons list. Now, Redemptionists are a travesty; still cheesy as hell but with ***** models and lame restrictions.

**You should take a missile launcher to experience the real meaning of "useless".

Catferret
15-05-2007, 01:09
Agreed wholeheartedly with the Major. I would only buy a Grenade Launcher for a Ganger with Specialist, Weaponsmith and BS of 4 or higher.

Heavies can buy Heavy Stubbers for a fraction of the cost.

gitburna
18-05-2007, 15:34
hey there

Figured being as this is about new gangs i'd chip in.

Im looking forward to using grenade launchers! Ive ordered a few spare cadian sprues off th'ebay. I always liked the old goliath leader with the chainsword and grenade launcher, he looked hella cool. Sadly when i went to buy him back in the day i could only get hold of the meltagun chainsaw-head guy. Still, he'll make a neat veteran leader in a few games time.

Yes, where was i ? My starting gang. Im going from memeory to some extent but heres what it boils down to. Im using the Goliath house weapon list, and of course, im limited by what models i have available but here goes [more or less].

Leader:- Autopistol and Boltgun
Heavy :- Heavy Stubber
Heavy :- Flamer
Ganger:- Autogun
Ganger:- Shotgun
Ganger:- Shotgun
Ganger:- Shotgun
Ganger:- Shotgun + Flail
Ganger:- Autopistol
Juve:- Stubgun
Juve:- Stubgun+club
Scum :- Havn't rolled him up yet.

I've got plenty of models who will come in as replacements once ive got some credits, weaponry and skills under my belt. The main things i want to get hold of ASAP are two gangers with lasguns for reliable suppressing fire or maybe some special shotgun shells because its a flexible weapon. Depending on the skills i roll up for my scummer i could arm him with any of the combinations of weapons. Essentially he will be there to provide a bit of skilled back-up for my shotguns+juves.

I have a few other gangs for other houses which i built, and something i'd been looking into a lot was starting with a HeavyBolter [mainly because i didnt have heavy stubber weapons]. I began to like the thought of gangers who had strayed into the open going out of action and rolling up serious injuries right from the start of the campaign. I listed the pros and cons in my head :

Pro : powerful, wounds on 2's and multiple wounds means more chances at forcing out of action
Pro : could potentially force enemy into cover
Pro : after a few games + skills it will be extremely effective piece of kit, also good vs those multiple wound gangers that will start to appear.

Neutral : Once you start rattling off multiple shots or shooting into cover, you either need or will be bound to score 6's anyway. If so, could it be worth using on the assumption that you'll only get one round of firing off? Therefore the higher strength and multiple wounds trading off vs the heavystubbers [potentially] shots?

Cons: Bit more expensive than the trusty heavy stubber
Cons: Probably only get one or two bursts off in a game so important to pick targets carefully.

Major_Gilbear
22-05-2007, 15:00
1> (170) Leader - Boltgun, Autopistol
2> (145) Heavy - Plasmagun, Autopistol
3> (115) Heavy - Flamer, Autopistol
4> (70) Ganger - Autogun
5> (70) Ganger - Autogun
6> (75) Ganger - Shotgun + Manstoppers
7> (75) Ganger - Shotgun + Manstoppers
8> (80) Ganger - Boltpistol, Maul
9> (90) Ganger - Autopistol, Chainsword
10> (50) Juve - Autopistol, Maul
11> (45) Juve - Stubgun, Flail
12> (15+) Scum – TBC

TOTAL = 1000 credits

I’ve noted my suggestions to your lineup in red.

Particular things to note are as follows:

=> You may want to rearrange the weapons between the leader and gangers 8 and 9 so that your leader is CC-orientated and leave one of the gangers with the Boltgun. This is especially true if you find you are lacking, er… punch in CC. Also might be worthwhile if one of your gangers picks up a BS advance.

=> The whole point of shotguns (IMO) is the combination of Manstoppers and Knockback. Other shotgun ammo is rather esoteric; Solid Slug being rendered obsolete by MS, Scatter only useful if the target is in -2 cover or more, and Hotshot statistically wounds T3 less often than S4 Manstopper. Bolt ammo is overpriced and less effective than a Boltgun anyway.

=> I know the Plasmagun isn’t HWL-legal, but I don’t play with HWLs anyway. If you do, then keep the creds in your stash for a game and then use a Trade roll to buy it. Your heavy will be fine with an Autopistol for one game and could even swap with one of your ranged gangers for the first fight if you prefer. On the same note, the chainsword on ganger 9 may have to wait a fight so that it is no longer Leader-Only. <Sigh> Even when you don't want to abuse the rules, HWLs still kick you in the nuts...

=> Plasmaguns are move-and-fire unlike the Heavy weapons. With many of your gang shooting 16” and 18”, the Plasmagun adds its weight to this range category too. If you ever need to, you can always jack it up to max power for a higher strength shot or to get the SF dice. Plasmaguns are a fantastic (and economical) alternative to Heavy weapons that especially suit a mobile gang.

=> You still have “space” in your Income Table size bracket for an extra gang member.

=> One juve has a Stubgun and flail and is good for tying up sword-weilding foe. The Stubgun is a bit pants, but they look great and are cheap. The other juve has more reliable autpistol anyway, so I figured that having one with a Stubgun wouldn’t let you down too much.

=> Gangers 8 and 9 have a flexible combo of weapons that allows you to reconfigure weapon fits as your gang advances as well as ensuring each ganger currently has a decent gun and a S4 CC attack.

=> Overall, I’ve tried to include a good variety of weapons and have concentrated on those that are reliable and/or have high strength. Likewise, I’ve tried to give you a mix of firepower and CC ability whilst ensuring that most of the gang can work well together without having to leave any members out on a limb (as a heavy with a Stubber could be for example).

Model-wise I think you should be able to field this gang largely with stock models, and using the new Goliaths for members like 3, 8 and 9. A few may require a bit more effort but still be a simple conversion (like 1 and 2).

Heavy Bolters are a very effective HW, but don’t do so well if they are required to fire fairly often; that 6+ ammo roll ensures they’ll be jammed on their first/second burst pretty reliably. They fare better as a “heavy sniper rifle” where you would only squeeze single shots from them. As a move-or-fire weapon, you may not have the best choice of targets either unless you are prepared to sacrifice a turn’s shooting.
Ultimately, these guns are best reserved for experienced heavies (with Techno skills “Weaponsmith” and “Armourer” and/or BS advances) or for heavies in gangs with easy access to Techno skills like Van Saar. Also, any model in a starting gang that is over 200cr is rather a liability and tends to cut down on gang size and equipment.
Personally, I like HBs and I take them in preference to HSs. However, I rarely take HSs at all in any gang.

As a final note, you might want to read this (http://www.terrainosaur.com/necromunda/necromunda.html). I don't think that all the equipment choices the author makes are solid ones, but he makes several really good points on tactics that might help a gang like this one.

Catferret
23-05-2007, 01:34
I agree with the Major about using a Heavy Bolter in a sniper capacity. Single shot with a high Strength and good damage is better than the decidedly crap Needle Rifle.

Heavy Stubbers are worth taking though. Cheap and reliable. Good range and rate of fire. Decent Strength as well.

Tomothy
23-05-2007, 02:45
hey there

Figured being as this is about new gangs i'd chip in.

Im looking forward to using grenade launchers! Ive ordered a few spare cadian sprues off th'ebay. I always liked the old goliath leader with the chainsword and grenade launcher, he looked hella cool. Sadly when i went to buy him back in the day i could only get hold of the meltagun chainsaw-head guy. Still, he'll make a neat veteran leader in a few games time.
Grenade Launchers cost way too much. I'd at least try to convince my group to allow them to be move and fire.

Now, by my count, you still have 35 creds. So i'm going to help you spend them :p


Leader:- Autopistol and Boltgun
Heavy :- Heavy Stubber
Nothing really to suggest here.


Heavy :- Flamer
Needs a back-up pistol for those occassions where his flamer is out of range or ammo.


Ganger:- Shotgun
Ganger:- Shotgun
You need more long range, give one of them a lasgun and one a boltgun.


Ganger:- Shotgun
Ganger:- Shotgun + Flail
Give them manstoppers


Ganger:- Autopistol
Make him a juve.


Juve:- Stubgun
Juve:- Stubgun+club
Make their stubguns autopistols.


Scum :- Havn't rolled him up yet.
I'd recommend a ratskin scout but this guy is good for a meat shield.

Then you've got 5-10 creds left over depending on whether you take a ratskin or not. If you don't and you drop the flail you can give your heavy stubber an autogun (for those times when you want to move and fire or for when he's out of ammo, because with the sustained fire rules that will happen).


I've got plenty of models who will come in as replacements once ive got some credits, weaponry and skills under my belt. The main things i want to get hold of ASAP are two gangers with lasguns for reliable suppressing fire or maybe some special shotgun shells because its a flexible weapon. Depending on the skills i roll up for my scummer i could arm him with any of the combinations of weapons. Essentially he will be there to provide a bit of skilled back-up for my shotguns+juves.
I'd get the ranged gangers to start, like i suggested, in my experience they're a lot more useful than shotgunners.


I have a few other gangs for other houses which i built, and something i'd been looking into a lot was starting with a HeavyBolter [mainly because i didnt have heavy stubber weapons]. I began to like the thought of gangers who had strayed into the open going out of action and rolling up serious injuries right from the start of the campaign. I listed the pros and cons in my head :

Pro : powerful, wounds on 2's and multiple wounds means more chances at forcing out of action
Pro : could potentially force enemy into cover
Pro : after a few games + skills it will be extremely effective piece of kit, also good vs those multiple wound gangers that will start to appear.

Neutral : Once you start rattling off multiple shots or shooting into cover, you either need or will be bound to score 6's anyway. If so, could it be worth using on the assumption that you'll only get one round of firing off? Therefore the higher strength and multiple wounds trading off vs the heavystubbers [potentially] shots?

Cons: Bit more expensive than the trusty heavy stubber
Cons: Probably only get one or two bursts off in a game so important to pick targets carefully.
60 creds is a whole ganger more expensive for a gun thats about twice as likely to run out of ammo. Its a big difference, its much more likely to put guys down but the amount of times it ran out of ammo on the first turn of the game is ridiculous.

Catferret
23-05-2007, 13:16
I'd get the ranged gangers to start, like i suggested, in my experience they're a lot more useful than shotgunners.

My last gang had a mix of Autoguns and Shotguns on the Gangers. I was running with everybody in the first few turns then letting rip at a couple of targets at about 12" range. I found the Shotgunners were very useful for supporting the Autogunners. Scatter shot for targets in cover or Manstoppers for putting big holes in the tougher opponents with T4, multiple Wounds or, in rare cases, Armour.

gitburna
23-05-2007, 16:12
No disrespect guys, But if i had anything to take other than shotguns and the single autogun i'd have taken it!

Im using the HWL, thats already sorted, so thats lasguns out of the frame until at least game 2, which is admittedly a bummer but i figure i can live with it. This is why theyre my number one priority at the trading post. I agree i ought to buy an autopistol/laspistol for the Flamer ganger.

Given the creds [and models.. Which i have tried to Ebay] i'd have a heavybolter or some more autoguns for my gangers but never mind.

MajorGB the tactics and the Goliaths site you pointed out were excellent, particulalrly the point about level 3/4 buildings.

But really, the choice of weaponry i have is, for the starting gang, unfortunately limited by the models i have available. I went for the massed shotguns because i figured "In for a penny in for a pound" and being a long time Ork player hitting on low scores doesnt really bother me that much.
Besides, thats why i left the points aside for the Scummer!

Chimpeh
23-05-2007, 18:51
Hi fellas,

As this thread is about new making gangs I figured I'd post my list for your thoughts and comments. I'll be using the Unknown Warriors rule set. The weapons list and background for those interested can be found here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84815).

Leader @ 120
Plasma Pistol @ 25
Sword @ 10
Total = 155

Heavy 1 @ 60
Heavy Bolter @ 180
Autopistol @ 15
Total = 255

Heavy 2 @ 60
Plasma Gun @ 70
Total = 130

Ganger 1 @ 50
Lasgun @ 25
Total = 75

Ganger 2 @ 50
Lasgun @ 25
Total = 75

Ganger 3 @ 50
Lasgun @ 25
Total = 75

Ganger 4 @ 50
Shotgun @ 20
Manstopper Rounds @ 5
Total = 75

Ganger 5 @ 50
Autopistol @ 15
Sword @ 10
Total = 75

Total = 915

Q: Do I opt for a further ganger w/ autopistol & sword, or, alternatively two juves both with autopistols for 80pts? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Edit - Gitburna, just noticed that your from S-o-T. I'm based just outside Stoke near Uttoxeter. Do you play Necro at the GW in Hanley?

Major_Gilbear
23-05-2007, 22:13
@Gitburna:
Yeah, the terrain observations in that article are spot on. It is also a great example of a gang which goes on style and doesn't rely on cheesing the rules or weapon selections.
BTW, what models do you have/intend to use? And would you be looking to convert any from 'Chans or Marauders? Knowing this would help a lot!

@Chimpeh:
Hmm, well your House Ahl al-Bayt gang seems to be very much like AWN to me... Just a few small differences is all.
As for your list, it is 8 members, so you could fit one more in to max out your income bracket. Also, I can't help but the think list looks very min-maxed to me. I guess you'll be using Tallarn for these? If not, I'd try and add more character to them; it is really dull when half your gang has a Lasgun.
Anyway, as with Gitburna, if we know what your thinking behind the gang is and what models you intend to use, advice can be tailored to be a little more meaningful.

Chimpeh
24-05-2007, 09:23
@Chimpeh:
Hmm, well your House Ahl al-Bayt gang seems to be very much like AWN to me... Just a few small differences is all.
As for your list, it is 8 members, so you could fit one more in to max out your income bracket. Also, I can't help but the think list looks very min-maxed to me. I guess you'll be using Tallarn for these? If not, I'd try and add more character to them; it is really dull when half your gang has a Lasgun.
Anyway, as with Gitburna, if we know what your thinking behind the gang is and what models you intend to use, advice can be tailored to be a little more meaningful.

Thanks for the reply Major,

First question was does AWN mean? :confused:

Second, your correct, I intend to use Tallarn models. I have about 12 GW models and most are armed with a lasgun. I do have a couple of the sergeant models that are armed with assorted pistols and swords. In addition, I've purchased the Heavy bolter model and the Tallarn snipers from forgeworld.

Min-maxed, hmmmm, from what I remember a couple of years ago, min-maxed armies are considered bad -- right? :(

I'm undecided whether it would be better to take an additional ganger, perhaps with a shotgun? or autopistol and sword? or even take two juves? If taking two juves will put me into a higher income bracket, I'd be better with a single ganger for the time being and then 'press-ganging' some juves into action later?

I should probably forewarn you; I've had no experience with greenstuff and my previous conversions have been very simple. However, I'd love to make my gang more characterful, so any further advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Catferret
24-05-2007, 13:43
First question was does AWN mean? :confused:

Ash Waste Nomads.

Don't know off hand if the rules are downloadable. Will have a look.

EDIT: Here you go (http://www.specialist-games.com/assets/FO31NecAsh.pdf).

Jedi152
24-05-2007, 13:46
The rules are in the experimental section of the website i think, but no official models are available.

Major_Gilbear
24-05-2007, 14:03
AWN = Ash Wastes Nomads (rules here (http://www.specialist-games.com/assets/FO31NecAsh.pdf)). As I said, they are not the same, but seem pretty similar to me. If you choose to use the AWN rules instead, you can still use the same weapons or ones which are available form the existing Tallarn range I think (including one of your nice new snipers!).

Basically, min-maxed refers to minimising every possible negative and gaining every possible positive in the selection of a force, even if it is goes totally agains the fluff. In essence, it is choosing a cheesy force.

Now, in Necromunda, the bulk of the rifle weapons are Autoguns and Lasguns; the difference between them is a -1 Sv Mod (on the Lasgun) and a superior Ammo roll on the Lasgun. The Lasgun only costs 5 creds more. Having a Lasgun over an Autogun is a very modest advantage TBH, but it will very rarely die on you and saves the need for a backup weapon.

Plasma guns combine the best of S, reliability and cost whilst having a special option of getting a boost from them every other turn if you wish.

Swords are very undercosted as the "Parry" ability is extremely powerful in a WS3 A1 game.

Heavy bolters are (somewhat contentiously?) considered the "best" heavy weapon in the game; high strength, multiple shots (though you can fire single shot too), multiple wounds and affordable. Not cheap, but affordable. True, they are move-or-fire and have a lousy Ammo roll, but they are much nastier than Heavy Stubbers and so these disadvantages are usually considered a worthy tradeoff.

Now, none of these things are bad on their own, but when all your ranged gangers have a Lasgun, your CC members all have swords, and your Heavies have a HB and a Plasmagun, ppl you might play against will probably get a bit upset.

I suggest that as the gangers are individuals, you try and give them more individual armaments. There is nothing wrong with having a couple of Lasguns, but avoid having five identically armed. There is nothing wrong a couple of with swords, but avoid having your CC gangers armed exclusively with them.

For example, you might want to try something like this:

1> (165) Leader - Plasma pistol, Bolt pistol
2> (260) Heavy - Heavy Bolter, Autogun
3> (145) Heavy - Plasmagun, Autopistol
4> (70) Ganger - Autogun
5> (75) Ganger - Lasgun
6> (75) Ganger - Lasgun
7> (75) Ganger - Shotgun + Manstoppers
8> (75) Ganger - Autopistol, Sword
9> (40) Juve - Autopistol

TOTAL CREDITS = 980

Slightly tweaked, there are fewer Lasguns and swords. There are nine members (including the minimum five gangers required to potentially work every territory in post-game).
I've added a juve as they can either be cheap meatsheilds or turn into great gangers.
The leader has a different weapons fit that allows him to fire on the turns that the PP is recharging, as does the Plasmagun heavy. That Bolt pistol also gives him a S4 CC attack.
The Heavy Bolter has a backup autogun as he probably won't have the range to use the Autopistol if he ever needs to.
Finally, you might want to give the juve a flail or similar in order to give him a chance against any sword-weilding foe.

Minor changes basically, and I hope that these are convertible for you; the leader should be a weapon swap, and the ganger with an autogun can probably be holding it single-handed so that you can convert him easily from a Seargeant model.
I've posted as you've asked for comments, and these are just my ideas, thoughts and suggestions. The main thing to remember is to do whatever turns your handle!

Catferret
24-05-2007, 14:09
An important point to remember if you used the Nomad rules are that Autoguns and Autopistols have a reduced ammo roll so they pretty much have to use Lasguns and Laspistols.

If you do stick with the Unknown Warriors thing then a mix of weapons will look cooler on the models.

gitburna
24-05-2007, 15:48
@Gitburna:
Yeah, the terrain observations in that article are spot on. It is also a great example of a gang which goes on style and doesn't rely on cheesing the rules or weapon selections.
BTW, what models do you have/intend to use? And would you be looking to convert any from 'Chans or Marauders? Knowing this would help a lot!



I will try and get some pics tonight to show you what they're all about [and why i am kinda limited to shotguns for the moment]
Here are those pics.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e157/gitburna/40k%20pics

Thats my goliath gang see. The juves are gorkamorka models, and most of the goliath models i have use shotguns. I will get a few more pistol armed gangers at some stage hopefully, and the lasgunners will be in as soon as i roll up some rare trade lasguns

Chimpeh
25-05-2007, 15:34
Thanks for the advice so far Major & Catferret.

I've taken on board what you've both said. First, as the AWN rules are currently experimental I'm uncertain whether my gaming buddies would be willing to allow their use, however I'll enquire. Second, I agree that some variety amongst my weapons would help make the gang much more characterful. I'm thinking of purchasing this (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/chaosmilup.htm) sprue from FW, which contains a whole variety of weapons inc. autoguns.

Hopefully the Tallarn snipers I've ordered are multi-part. They haven't arrived yet, however if they are indeed multi-part models then it should be relatively straight forward to perform weapon & arm swaps. Additionally, I could make use of some of the new plastic Cadian legs to provide additional poses.

Looks like a plan. As soon as the Tallarn snipers arrive I'll post some pictures of the gang.

Jedi152
25-05-2007, 15:40
Chimpeh, you are a genius!

Scavvy gang using FW renegades! woo!

Major_Gilbear
25-05-2007, 22:48
@ Jedi152:
Been done (http://www.easternfringe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3568) ;). Best idea I came across was to use them instead of Redemptionists, and using the Redemptionists' rules to "Count As" a Chaos cult... Nice!

@ Chimpeh:
You're welcome! I seriously look forward to seeing your gang when you get the bits together!

@ Gitburna:
Hmm, old plastic Goliaths... TBH, that is what I was suspecting.
They are probably among the worst models GW has ever made, so I would suggest hacking them up for bits! At the very least, don't be afraid to do weapon swaps on them.
If you have any spare, you could try cutting off their arms and replacing them with Catachan/Marauder arms. Better yet, get yourself a frame of Catachans and a frame of Marauders and replace all the plastic gangers with new ones. Plastic models would be cheap, flexible for conversions and easy to get hold of. The old plastics can furnish your new models with useful guns like shotguns etc.
As a final note, having a gang with a useful mix of weapons is never a waste of time or effort; sooner or later you will use them all (even if it is just to try out a weapons fit!).

Chimpeh
27-05-2007, 20:16
My first order from Forgeworld turned up the other day and consisted of Tallarn Snipers (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/tsnipers.htm) and a single Tallarn equipment pack (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/tallequip.htm).

First, it has to be said that detail of these models is absolutely stunning. Much respect to FW.

Now, onto the conversion possibilities for one such as me, with only limited experience. Firstly, only one of the snipers is completely multi-part and this is the one standing. Secondly, the one crouching without a cloak comes without his arms and sniper-rifle attached and consequently it will be possible to equip him with an autogun from this (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/chaosmilup.htm) excellent sprue! The final Tallarn sniper, crouching with a cloak, is a complete model.

As a result I took a scan through the Tallarn range available from FW and noticed that the heavy weapon teams are multi-part. I've already ordered a Heavy bolter team, of which I'll make use of the spare trooper by equipping him with an autogun. Additionally, I've ordered a mortar team and have decided to make use of both crew members by equipping them with weapons from the renegade militia sprue (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/chaosmilup.htm). The mortar and additional resin mortar rounds will be based and used as a loot counter for various scenarios.

I'm going to take stock of what miniatures I have and get to work on an updated gang list, which I'll post sometime this week.

Major_Gilbear
28-05-2007, 00:35
Sweet! And thanks for the heads-up on the snipers, I did start to wonder myself if they were multi-part after you mentioned it.

Jedi152
29-05-2007, 15:09
Those ash waste nomads look amazing!

Just for a quick bit of feedback - how does this look for a starter Escher gang?

Leader: Boltgun, sword, laspistol.
Heavy: H. Stubber, lasgun.
Heavy: Plasma gun, lasgun.
Ganger: Shotgun + manstoppers.
Ganger: Autogun.
Ganger: Lasgun.
Ganger: Flail, laspistol.
Ganger: Sword, autopistol
Juve: Stub gun, pick.
Juve: Autopistol, club.

That should be bang on 1000 creds. I'd hoped to have a bit left in my stash to hire a Ratskin, so i might drop a ganger. I'd drop the plasma heavy, but then it's just a basic gang that pretty much everyone has - and the model is so good.

Any feedback please?

Major_Gilbear
29-05-2007, 19:05
(180) Leader: Boltgun, Sword, Laspistol
(200) Heavy: Heavy Stubber, Autogun
(150) Heavy: Plasma gun, Autogun
(75) Ganger: Shotgun + Manstoppers
(70) Ganger: Autogun
(75) Ganger: Lasgun
(75) Ganger: Flail, Laspistol
(75) Ganger: Sword, Autopistol
(45) Juve: Stubgun, Maul
(40) Juve: Autopistol

TOTAL CREDITS = 985

Looks good to me. My suggested changes in red; I think I got all the costs correct! I realise the first Juve is to use the cool Escher Juve. By swapping the Heavies' basic weapons to Autoguns and dropping a maul on the second Juve, you can now afford the Ratskin. Don't drop any gangers or you may not be able to collect your full income after each game!

Jedi152
29-05-2007, 19:16
Brilliant, thanks!

Yes the first Juve is the excellent model - otherwise i wouldn't bother with the stub gun - but then most of the Eschers are excellent models - i just had to include my favourite, the superb flail and laspistol ganger.

Chimpeh
02-06-2007, 17:34
Hi fellas,

I finally got round to re-assessing my 'Unknown Warriors' Gang and have a new gang list for people to critique. Hopefully it's a little less min-max and more characterful.

First, I decided to adjust the house weapon list to the following:

Hand to Hand Combat
Knife

Pistols
Autopistol, Laspistol & Stubgun.

Basic
Autogun, Lasgun & Shotgun

Special
Flamer & Plasma Gun

Heavy Weapons
Heavy Stubber & Heavy Bolter

Leader
Chainsword, Plasma pistol, Boltpistol & Boltgun


The adjusted gang now consists of the following:

Leader w/ Plasma pistol and Boltpistol
Points -- 165

Heavy 1 w/ Heavy Bolter and Autogun
Points -- 260

Heavy 2 w/ Plasma Gun
Points -- 130

Ganger 1 w/ Lasgun
Points -- 75

Ganger 2 w/ Lasgun
Points -- 75

Ganger 3 w/ Autogun
Points -- 70

Ganger 4 w/ Autogun
Points -- 70

Ganger 5 w/ Shotgun and Manstopper rounds
Points -- 75

Ganger 6 w/ Autopistol
Points -- 65

Ratskin Scout w/ Shotgun, club, knife & blindsnake pouch
Points -- 15

Total points -- 1000.


The leader, heavy 2, gangers 5 & 6 and the Ratskin scout form a 'unit' and close with the enemy engaging them in a short range firefight, whilst the remaining force provides covering fire.

House skills are the same as Delaques, with emphasis on shooting, stealth and agility.

ML Kurze
06-06-2007, 19:14
Hey everyone. Well, since this is the thread to post new gangs, I'd like to post mine. Me and a collegefriend are considering returning to the fold of Games Workshop by picking up this old game. I have the old rulebook and don't have a clue (yet) as to what has changed. So if I've made a mistake, then I can blame the new rules ;) So, without further ado (using 'old skool' buying system), my Orlock gang:

Leader, Knife, Chainsword, Bolt pistol - 165
Heavy, Knife, Heavy Stubber, Autogun - 200
Heavy, Knife, Chainsword, Flamer, autopistol - 140
Ganger, Knife, Shotgun (MS, Scatter, Solid) - 75
Ganger, Knife, Autogun - 70
Ganger, Knife, Autogun - 70
Ganger, Knife, Lasgun - 75
Ganger, Knife, Lasgun - 75
Juve, Knife, Autopistol - 40
Juve, Knife, Autopistol - 40
Juve, Knife, Autopistol - 40

Total cost: 990 credits
Total models: 11

Overall idea:
I'll use the Leader and Flamer-heavy (I don't have names yet, I first want to get a feel for the list) as my primary assault group. These guys get stuck in as quick as possible (after of course popping up some bolts and a good flush of prometium), with the juves as secondairy assault group/bullet soaks/speed bumps. Behind this assault based lot is one of my lasgunners and the shotgun dude, acting as a close-in fireteam. The heavy with stubber will gun down anyone foolish to show his head, backed up by an autogunner who functions as a sniper (at least, that's I'm hoping he'll become). The second autogunner's teamed up with a lasgunner, acting as a flanking unit.
So essentialy, I have four groups: 'longrange' fire-support (2 guys), flanking unit (2 guys), fireteam (2 guys) and assaultgroup (5 lads).

Background is still forthcoming. I personally liked the stories in Status Deadzone, especially 'The Lake', featuring the Brassers with their Slag Lord Orl. So it probably will be around that, but also a link with the Imperial Guard/Inquisition. That's why I've included two guys with lasguns (I want to drive a little story around those guys), with the shotgun dude as a possible ex-arbite.

If you could give me some pointers, I'd really appreciate it! :)

Major_Gilbear
07-06-2007, 18:06
Looks pretty solid TBH. Only change I'd strongly suggest is dropping the Flamer's chainsword and upgrading one of the juves to a ganger with the rest of the creds. More gangers are good in case of injuries so that you can still work all/most of your territories.

Aside from that, I think it looks good.

ML Kurze
07-06-2007, 20:24
What would be the best approach to spending those credits? Getting myself another autogunner/lasgunner, a shotgunner or a boltgunner?

Tomothy
07-06-2007, 20:58
Swords for the juves (and maybe one flail) would be my first stop. Depending on how close they typically get to the enemy in the first 1 or 2 games.

Major_Gilbear
07-06-2007, 21:10
I like to try and get plenty of S4 stuff into a gang, so maybe a boltgun could be good. Besides, more variation is good in a gang.

Tomothy's suggestion is a good one too, but I am almost scared of having more than two weapons with parry in a gang...

ML Kurze
08-06-2007, 05:25
What would be the best thing to do: drop the flamegunner's chainsword and upgrade a juve to a boltgunner (and get ten credits from somewhere) or should I drop the chainsword and use the remaining 35 credits to get flails, clubs and a sword for my young ones?


Tomothy's suggestion is a good one too, but I am almost scared of having more than two weapons with parry in a gang...
Can I ask why, 'cause I don't know what could be wrong with it. Perhaps it has to do with cheese (but how I don't know)?

Chimpeh
08-06-2007, 07:16
I think taking too many parries in a gang can be seen as a little cheesy simply because the parry skill is so effective. Personally, I think I'd opt with a boltgunner. To find the additional 10 creds required you could drop the leader's chainsword and purchase him a sword instead. After your first game you could then purchase a new chainsword when you have the credits and give the left-over sword to a juve.

Tomothy
08-06-2007, 07:35
I think taking too many parries in a gang can be seen as a little cheesy simply because the parry skill is so effective.
Thats only because that and antiparry (flail) are the only two abilities weapons have beyond more strength. Of course its gonna dominate the field (especially because antiparry has a big downside). If they had more variation there'd be more variation.

Personally, I think I'd opt with a boltgunner. To find the additional 10 creds required you could drop the leader's chainsword and purchase him a sword instead. After your first game you could then purchase a new chainsword when you have the credits and give the left-over sword to a juve.
Thats a good plan.

Major_Gilbear
08-06-2007, 21:15
Yeah, parry not only duplicates a skill, but is stackable too. So gangs with access to Combat skills could reasonably wind up with gangers toting three parries in CC! As Tomothy says, effects aside from a stat-boost to your strength or such tends be either too good or not good enough; parry is too good but its counter -the flail- isn't quite up to scratch. Since most min-maxed gangs take lots of swords, this problem really gets driven home to those unfortunate enough not to have their own sword-wielders and reinforces their cheesy image. I try and keep their use down to about 20% of my gang (so about two or three at most in a typical gang).

As for the Boltgunner, I think that you'll find it more useful in the long run, especially in a gang where you pick up Shooting skills and are bound to have a member roll a BS advance sooner or later!

ML Kurze
08-06-2007, 22:45
Wouldn't it be better then to replace one of my lasgunners/autogunners for a boltgunner, allowing me to retain one chainsword (it's more because of the cool factor I want it then anything else - at least, untill I can get my leader a power maul :) - ). And shouldn't I give my flamegunner a pick or axe to give him a little boost in hand to hand?

Major_Gilbear
09-06-2007, 00:47
Hehe, ultimately it's your gang, so you can do as you please! :p

Still, that might be an idea, but do remember that the flamer prevents the Heavy from using more than one weapon in CC anyway; if you have a pistol, he may as well use that. If it is a S4 pistol, then he has both a backup weapon and a S4 CC attack. Unfortunately, as flamers are likely to run dry pretty quickly, you might be relying rather heavily on the sidearm (which therefore needs to be a bit more reliable than a bolt pistol or a stubgun with dumdums IMO).

Catferret
09-06-2007, 01:40
A chain actually makes for a good CC weapon for Heavies. Flails can't be used with a second weapon. Heavies carry big guns most of the time so suffer -1WS, doubling fumbles isn't gonna make much difference to them! The Heavy can't be parried and would be at +1S if he did win the combat.

Tomothy
09-06-2007, 02:21
Oh I like flails, and i use them, but the combination of it being the only cc weapon you can use and double fumbles makes it not quite as good as having a sword.

It is a regular occurrence that a flail wielding ganger will get into hth with someone with no sword, and carrying a basic weapon so only 1 attack, and lose. Yes this can happen to anyone, but the double fumble and lack of extra attacks just makes it more likely.

Personally a little variation in the combat skills would be useful, too many rely on parry, secondly i believe they covered in a FAQ that weapon parries no longer stack (so a maximum of 2) or something like that. Thirdly i would like to see a couple more hth weapons. Whip (str as user, can't be parried), spear (str +1, loses draws, two handed, reroll an attack, cancels charge bonus), net (entangle a weapon, can't be used during combat, takes up a hand), axe (str +1 increase critical range to 5's and 6's), club (str + 1 increase opponents fumble range to 1's and 2's). These weapons would also allow for a lot more variation in the house weapons lists. I would also like to see a couple of new pistols and a couple of new basic weapons hopefully in that regard.

Catferret
09-06-2007, 02:31
Maybe Clubs and Flails could always grant High Impact? Not a huge benefit but maybe handy in multiple combats.

Major_Gilbear
09-06-2007, 02:36
Hmm, I dunno if more weapons is the solution... I think better rules for the ones we have would be a smarter move.
Swords need something other than parry (leave that for the skill table!), whilst the rules for flails and massive axes need to be tweaked to make them more competitive. Mauls are fine I think.
As for pistols, the same applies; if the stubgun had no range modifiers and the laspistol had the range modifiers +1/+0 instead, both would become more tempting choices and give the pistol section real choice.

Catferret
09-06-2007, 02:37
Swords are fast and light. They could always win draws! I reckon that could work.

Major_Gilbear
09-06-2007, 02:53
Or swords never fumble? That would be more useful, but not game-breaking.

Flails double critical hit bonuses and also double fumble penalties. Can be used with another weapon. So a critical adds +2 instead of +1, and fumble penalties likewise.

Massive axes count as High Impact if they roll any critical hits? I think losing draws and not being able to use two weapons would balance the strength boost and the proposed high impact effect.

ML Kurze
09-06-2007, 08:56
Hehe, ultimately it's your gang, so you can do as you please! :p
No hijacking of my gang for now? ;)


Still, that might be an idea, but do remember that the flamer prevents the Heavy from using more than one weapon in CC anyway; if you have a pistol, he may as well use that.

A chain actually makes for a good CC weapon for Heavies. Flails can't be used with a second weapon. Heavies carry big guns most of the time so suffer -1WS, doubling fumbles isn't gonna make much difference to them! The Heavy can't be parried and would be at +1S if he did win the combat.
The flamer doesn't count as a heavy weapon does it, because then he won't have to worry about fumble. Understand the problem though, but a bolt pistol is, indeed, unreliable and anything else is weaker. Well, except for the plasma pistol, which I can't get as a starting gang (if I remember correctly).
Now that I think about it, should I give my leader an additional pistol (laspistol or something) to keep him shooting once his boltshells run out?

Major_Gilbear
09-06-2007, 11:32
No hijacking of my gang for now? ;)
You cynic!:p




The flamer doesn't count as a heavy weapon does it, because then he won't have to worry about fumble. Understand the problem though, but a bolt pistol is, indeed, unreliable and anything else is weaker. Well, except for the plasma pistol, which I can't get as a starting gang (if I remember correctly).
Now that I think about it, should I give my leader an additional pistol (laspistol or something) to keep him shooting once his boltshells run out?
No, the flamer is a Special Weapon, so it gets the same treatment in CC as a basic weapon.

I've heard of ppl giving flamer heavies flails as backup and they've suggested it to be a good tactic. Personally though, heavies are expensive and advance slowly, so I try hard to keep them out of CC (more risky than shooting, less chance of not being down/out). That's why I favour the pistol option; you can still fight in CC with it and doubles as a backup weapon.

Your leader is going to be hitting plenty with his BS4, so at least you'll do some damage before you run out of ammo. Two pistols would be useful though; you get two CC attacks and have a backup weapon for the boltpistol. Still not as good as a dedicated close combat rig, but good enough for most situations and you can always pick up a sword or maul later. On the other hand, if you intend for your leader to be getting into plenty of CC, then don't worry as much; he won't be taking ammo tests when he runs, charges or is actually in CC.

ML Kurze
09-06-2007, 14:25
You cynic!:p
I try ;) Probably watched to much Black Adder when I got bored seven months ago :p


No, the flamer is a Special Weapon, so it gets the same treatment in CC as a basic weapon.
That's a relief!


I've heard of ppl giving flamer heavies flails as backup and they've suggested it to be a good tactic. Personally though, heavies are expensive and advance slowly, so I try hard to keep them out of CC (more risky than shooting, less chance of not being down/out). That's why I favour the pistol option; you can still fight in CC with it and doubles as a backup weapon.
Wouldn't it be better to give the guy a shotgun then? Getting in close with a heavy duty weapon keeps him out of harms way and gives him the chance to double as a close-range gunner. My former shotgunner can then become a close combat fighter.


Your leader is going to be hitting plenty with his BS4, so at least you'll do some damage before you run out of ammo. Two pistols would be useful though; you get two CC attacks and have a backup weapon for the boltpistol. Still not as good as a dedicated close combat rig, but good enough for most situations and you can always pick up a sword or maul later. On the other hand, if you intend for your leader to be getting into plenty of CC, then don't worry as much; he won't be taking ammo tests when he runs, charges or is actually in CC.
Point taken. I'll let him keep his bolt pistol and chainsword and give him a sidekick to cover his back in hand to hand. I first considered letting the flamegunner be that guy but now I'm considering giving him a ganger and a juve as back-up.