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Mahatma
09-04-2007, 13:53
I've here used the Cathay army book that was released on this site. It can be found at www.warseer.com/articles if you look hard enough. The special Nippon list has been used so that I can access Bolt Throwers.

The general idea was to make a balance army, with a mix of infantry; both common and elite, missile fire, cavalry and warmachines. The infantry will be provided by Perry Miniatures Samurais range, so will the cavalry and the Bolt Throwers will be Dark Elf Reapers (because they look cool).

General: Shogun, ha, shield, sword of might, pendant of jade (gives him regeneration), noble warhorse. 212 points. He's included because his ld10 will be a big help for my infantry.

Swordsaint Warbreather. Battle Standard Bearer. ha, enchanted shield. 124 points

Swordsain Warbreather. level 1 wizard, two scrolls, ha, shield. 191 points.
Simply a scroll caddie, will be helped by my Yan units to give a good magic defense. More on that later.

20 Warclad, la, spears, musician, warborn, sashimono (that's a standard to you)
20 Warclad, la, spears, musician, warborn, sashimono
Both are 142 points

These form the core of my army, being basic human level infantry with not much going for them but CR

10 Warclad with longbows. 70 points
10 Warclad with longbows. 70 points

Throwaway archers that can occupy a flank and die without giving away many VP's

6 Warclad cavalry, la, spears, shoguns guard (+1ws), musician. 102 points.

Light cav to be used as march blockers and for baiting

16 Swordsaints, ha, cathayan longsword, musician, kensai (champ), sashimono. 248 points

My elite infantry, with killing blow, WS4, S4 and always strike first, should be able to kill a few things aswell as look after my BSB and wizard. They'll go next to my two Warclad units in the center

8 Wind Shadows, keiyou cloak, additional hand weapon

Ninjas people. Flying ninjas. Couldn't have an army list without them. They scout, skirmish and have poisoned attacks. Will be used to kill warmachines and lone characters, and look good on the battlefield.

7 Swordsaint Hatamoto. ha, cathayan longsword, musician, champ and sashimono. 288 points.

Mounted Samurai with WS5 A2, S4 (+1 for riding an noble warhorse which makes them S5).

3 Storm hurler bolt throwers

Something to kill heavily armoured troops.

About the Yan units. There is a special rule, where units are divided into either Yan, Ying or Neutral. Yan units convert 1 Power Dice into a Dispell dice, Ying convert one DD into a PD. Neutral units choose which of these at the start of the battle. My level 1 wizard gives me a total of 3PD and 3DD.

I have one Ying unit, the Wind Shadows.
I have four Yan units, the swordsaints, hatamoto, and the two warbreather characters.

So I move 3 PD to the DD pool, giving me 0PD and 6DD with 2 scrolls.

One thing I've wondered is if people would be happy to play against an army list that isn't an official GW production. Do you see any problems because of this? Alternatively, I could use the miniatures to make an empire army if I needed.

Thanks.

zak
09-04-2007, 18:59
I don't see why anyone would have a problem. I'm sure the guys and girls who wrote this took a lot of time playtesting the army list to get GW's approval. I was very impressed by their efforts and thought the lists looked very balanced.

Rodman49
09-04-2007, 21:00
Your link it - does not work, please enlighten me.

Intranetusa
12-04-2007, 00:39
Is the army of Nippon going to be a combo of Nippon/Cathay?


cuz yin/yang is from daoism...

GodHead
12-04-2007, 01:03
It's quite a stupid list despite all of the effort put into it. It has the typical bane of any fan-made enterprise, which is an overabundance of meaningless special rules to try and make it unique.

All it does is muddle things up and make it far too complex to be playable. I would never use or play against such an army.

TheStrategist
12-04-2007, 01:15
And why not? Is it because you are afraid of a challenge? Frankly, I would love to play armies from other regions (Araby, Kislev, etc come to mind), instead of using DoW and other rules to make up things GW has not made rules for. Also, if a person wants to try his unique army (assuming its balanced from a glance), then I say, sure, why not? I have the Cathay army book that was mentioned and have looked over it more than once. And as far as I am concerned, until GW makes something better, that is the official list for Cathay.

Damn man, sorry for being so rough on you, but lets take me: I've painfully collected ideas, fluff and other things and now am finishing an army list for Kislev (using all the things that GW has given me to work with, and filling in the gaps). An now, after all that work, you mean to tell me that you would not play it, just because it does not have a GW stamp of officiality on it? Just to let you know, a lot of fan-made lists are better than some of the lists GW has put out, SAD (Skryre armies of Doom, basically, a Skaven gun-line army) comes to mind. So, honestly, I cannot understand whats driving you.

GodHead
12-04-2007, 01:47
No, I'm telling you I wouldn't play it because it's crap. I don't think I mentioned anywhere in my post "a GW stamp of officiality" so quit misrepresenting what I said.

Page 14 to 16 are my problem. In an attempt to make the list something other than a simple Empire clone the authors have soiled themselves in an attempt to offer a special rule for every occasion. "The Balance" in particular strikes me as a really stupid, poorly conceived rule which does nothing than needlessly complicate the game. Hell, it's not even explained well, if you have Yan units, do you lose power dice during your magic phase and have them act as dispel dice? What does "convert one power dice from the pool into a dispel dice" mean? One of the opponents dice? It's just dumb, but because they gave the "yin/yuan" garbage fluff for it they just have to have those rules or it wouldn't be a fitting way to represent their background...:rolleyes:

All the characters in the list have a ******* orgy of special rules. Swordsaints with Killing blow, strike first, S5, A4, cast magic, wear armour. Same thing for the Living Shadows and Celestial Dragons. And 215 points for the Swordsaint Firstborn? Even if he counts as a lord and a hero, get real.

As to whether the list itself is balanced, I can't say for certain but I daresay that it's not. It seems to me that the abundance of ridiculously over the top characters and special units combined with 4 point swarming core troops and skirmishers seems to be a balance disaster.

Basically I hate the list for ignoring one of the chief rules of Warhammer: Men are men. Even Chaos Warriors, given gifts from their gods have less special rules than these chumps, hell Chaos Daemons have less special rules. You want to make strong men? Give them +1 to a stat or two, maybe even +1 and a special rule. Not killing blow AND strike first AND a ward save AND casting magic without magic items. It's just lazy.

I'm sure a lot of work went into it, but it's still just another fanboy list and not something I'd wish to see in my playing group.

TheStrategist
12-04-2007, 03:49
Well, I'll admit that they did go a little over the top, but not so much as so that the list is unplayable. Also, fluff does dictate that the armies of Cathay are very diverse and there have been references in GW text about their awesome Dragon Monks, which would make their teachers (or whoever they are, seeing as what they do to those kids) even more so, so its not that bad. Also, in the Ambassador Chronicles, (I hope that you've read it), one of the antagonists is Sasha Kajetan, who was trained on "on island somewhere in the east", and his fighting skills were described as pure awesome. And, you do have to give the guys credit, even if they did make an unreasonable army list, but look at how much fluff they have added. Just for that they desrvfe respect.

And, if you say its crap, then why dont you make a better list? Im sure a person with such a marvelous understanding of in-game balance, and with this work to copy from, you could make someting better.:rolleyes:

Also: does anyone know how I can post my own work, the above mentioned army list for Kislev? I would prefer transfering it into Acrobat Reader and then posting it up. Please and thank you.

Rodman49
12-04-2007, 06:16
No, I'm telling you I wouldn't play it because it's crap. I don't think I mentioned anywhere in my post "a GW stamp of officiality" so quit misrepresenting what I said.

Page 14 to 16 are my problem. In an attempt to make the list something other than a simple Empire clone the authors have soiled themselves in an attempt to offer a special rule for every occasion. "The Balance" in particular strikes me as a really stupid, poorly conceived rule which does nothing than needlessly complicate the game. Hell, it's not even explained well, if you have Yan units, do you lose power dice during your magic phase and have them act as dispel dice? What does "convert one power dice from the pool into a dispel dice" mean? One of the opponents dice? It's just dumb, but because they gave the "yin/yuan" garbage fluff for it they just have to have those rules or it wouldn't be a fitting way to represent their background...:rolleyes:

All the characters in the list have a ******* orgy of special rules. Swordsaints with Killing blow, strike first, S5, A4, cast magic, wear armour. Same thing for the Living Shadows and Celestial Dragons. And 215 points for the Swordsaint Firstborn? Even if he counts as a lord and a hero, get real.

As to whether the list itself is balanced, I can't say for certain but I daresay that it's not. It seems to me that the abundance of ridiculously over the top characters and special units combined with 4 point swarming core troops and skirmishers seems to be a balance disaster.

Basically I hate the list for ignoring one of the chief rules of Warhammer: Men are men. Even Chaos Warriors, given gifts from their gods have less special rules than these chumps, hell Chaos Daemons have less special rules. You want to make strong men? Give them +1 to a stat or two, maybe even +1 and a special rule. Not killing blow AND strike first AND a ward save AND casting magic without magic items. It's just lazy.

I'm sure a lot of work went into it, but it's still just another fanboy list and not something I'd wish to see in my playing group.

I whole-heartedly agree with GodHead's viewpoint. Admittedly its hard not to make a new army you created uber awesome - we see this all time when people add sides to RTS computer games (in the modding community) but there has got to be a less convoluted way to make a unique oriental army.

On the other note, besides the rules; the formatting and presentation of the list is really awesome (baring the front cover).

TheStrategist
12-04-2007, 17:23
Still, for all its drawbacks, I felt he came down too hard on the author/s.