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redbaron998
14-04-2007, 02:23
Well it has finally happened here. The Intrest in GW and really gaming in general in Georgia at the Hobby Town where I play is almost dead. They are starting to downsize the GW section little by little. We are down to two Regulars that come every other week other than myself. So is gw actually florishing anywhere? I know Chicago and LA have some busy places but I keep hearing of GW stores and franchises closing and not much growth.

So is GW growing anywhere?

devolutionary
14-04-2007, 02:27
It seems to be doing very well in Auckland from what I have seen, but we're in a completely different hemisphere ;)

Warboss Grimmtoof
14-04-2007, 03:16
Yea wargaming died about 2 weeks ago in my gaming club too. We have about 3 people that come in a week. Thats it. My shop now carries no warhammer fantasy, a 3x4 shelf of 40k boxes and blisters (all pretty old, newest thing is genestealers!) and a bit of warmachine. Oh well!

BodhiTree
14-04-2007, 03:18
My local Indy has begun downsizing its GW stock, particularly Fantasy, and has begun expanding on the other companies. Although, another shop I frequent further off in the city has just begun to stock GW products, and the local GW store is going strong (at least, it seems to me that it is). Overall, I'd say the real concentration of GW gamers seem to have migrated to the downtown core of my city. I don't think they're in any state of decay though.

sephiroth87
14-04-2007, 04:09
I dunno. We've always had a huge community where I live, but we're a college town and there's always a lot of new players. We probably have 35-40 regulars and about another 30 on the fringe who play occasionally in 40k.

We have about 20 regular fantasy players and about 10-15 more on the fringe.

On a separate note, we have 1 guy who "collects" lord of the rings models because no one else will play the damn game.

Mikhaila
14-04-2007, 05:05
Philadelphia seems to be doing fine.

My two shops have about a dozen LOTR players, 50 or so 40k players, and 70 fantasy players. These are people that stop in the shops on a weekly basis, play games in one of the other, or at their own clubs. There a couple of other independents that have GW gaming at their shops, and two GW company stores. I sell a half dozen starter sets a week, giving us a lot of new players, but we also have a very good group of veterans that attend the various GT's.

Gaming is always in flux, going away in some places, growing in others.

LessThanSimple
14-04-2007, 07:10
I live an hour north of Chicago and I know of at least 4 places that either fully stock GW products or have a rather large stock and can order. At three or those stores are gaming tables and two of them and official GW stores. All within a 30 minute drive. I would say it's pretty strong around here.

snurl
14-04-2007, 07:15
There's 4 shops within an hours drive of Lancaster PA, seems alive and well here.

Melchiah
14-04-2007, 08:08
The "geek scene" is getting bigger by the day here. But sadly the interest in GW ebbs and flows here. But its generally seaonal too, more geeks get out as the poor weather passes.

blongbling
14-04-2007, 10:18
and people complain that GW spends its time focusing on new customers, even when it is it still finds it hard to keep the hobby alive. independant stocksits rarley put the effort into recruiting new stockists that GW does...thats why the hobby comes and goes in areas with them

GideonRavenor
14-04-2007, 10:21
The hobby seems to be growing, if anything, in the UK.

Belisarius
14-04-2007, 16:09
Up in Northern Minnesota we are starting to see a bit of growth after a year of decline. I have found there is a lot of ebb and flow around gaming groups we now have 11 people in our group compared to 7 a month ago and at the height of 3rd edition we had 23 people so take what you will from it.

Carot
14-04-2007, 17:00
Growing interest up here in Colorado. I'm surprised we don't have dedicated GW stores in the Springs or Grand Junction yet.

:chrome:

superknijn
14-04-2007, 17:05
It wanes in one area, and waxes in the other. Personal experiences absolutely do not hold truth for the rest of the world.

Killgore
14-04-2007, 19:37
a lack of interest isnt just because of the latest releases, but also things like friendship groups, local trends and other such things

in my area an entire gaming social group went down the pan because half the members desided they wanted to sacrifise their gw time for world of warcraft, the community also died a year or two before that when the local gw gaming store shut down due to money problems

it only takes the promise of something like a campain to bring the gamers back again or split friendships to reform

RavenMorpheus
15-04-2007, 04:11
Well it has finally happened here. The Intrest in GW and really gaming in general in Georgia at the Hobby Town where I play is almost dead. They are starting to downsize the GW section little by little. We are down to two Regulars that come every other week other than myself. So is gw actually florishing anywhere? I know Chicago and LA have some busy places but I keep hearing of GW stores and franchises closing and not much growth.

So is GW growing anywhere?

The town where I live is dead as well, we used to have a independent stockist a few years ago, but they stopped selling GW products and have now shut down, the only GW stores are 11 and 16 miles away and I think in that 16 mile radius there are only 2 independant stockists?!

And don't get me started on finding a "local" games club - one that's within a reasonable distance of my house, a 7 mile radius would do, fat chance though.

Not good times for GW on the high street.

blongbling
15-04-2007, 10:44
GW's indy presence is driven by how many stores there are out ther, same as any distirbution companies lot. if there are less stores then it stands to reson that there can be less locations to get the product stocked.

a declining hobby store business means that you will find less locatiosn for GW to get their product stocked

The game is afoot
15-04-2007, 19:27
My local club no longer plays Fantasy at all, the odd game of 40K appears but mostly now it is WAB, Flames of War and Armies of Arcana.
Also, the price of GW products on eBay has dropped 20% over the last couple of years.

RavenMorpheus
15-04-2007, 19:42
GW's indy presence is driven by how many stores there are out ther, same as any distirbution companies lot. if there are less stores then it stands to reson that there can be less locations to get the product stocked.

a declining hobby store business means that you will find less locatiosn for GW to get their product stocked

Good point - my local indy stockist was going downhill years ago when they stopped selling GW stuff. Not many people where I live seem to play GW games and if they do they're in the "closet" about it.

I think GW gaming on a whole is patchy - some towns have some don't, at least in the UK anyways.

JT-Y
15-04-2007, 20:21
a lack of interest isnt just because of the latest releases, but also things like friendship groups, local trends and other such things

Very good point that...

However, the club I run still has more than 40 members and an average attendance of 25 each week which has increased from 20 two years ago, and an average age of 25 (which surprised me when I worked it out, as most of us feel and look much older:p ).

40k and WFB are popular of course, but last week there were 6 games of WAB to 1 game of WFB and 0 games of 40k.
And there is increased interest each week in other systems (Heart Of Africa, Future Wars etc., not really for other big name stuff like FoW, IK Warmachine or Rackham *whatevertheycallitnowgame* so much though).

Make what you will of that, but I don't see it as a lack of interest in the hobby per se so much as GW itself at present.
If wargaming were losing interest we'd have fewer each week and wouldn't still be attracting new members.

Light of the Emperor
16-04-2007, 05:23
The indy store here is doing quite well. Well enough to warrent the attention of GW to try out some new things.

Adept
16-04-2007, 06:52
the only GW stores are 11 and 16 miles away and I think in that 16 mile radius there are only 2 independant stockists?!

Dude, I have only one indy store within 30 miles, and the nearest GW store is over 120 miles away.


And don't get me started on finding a "local" games club - one that's within a reasonable distance of my house, a 7 mile radius would do, fat chance though.

What, do you walk to games nights? I'm happy to drive 35 miles or so once a week for a decent evening of gaming. At least try expanding your horizons a little before you write off the 'local' gaming scene.

Cpt_NinjaPants
16-04-2007, 06:59
Growing interest up here in Colorado. I'm surprised we don't have dedicated GW stores in the Springs or Grand Junction yet.

:chrome:
i would be pissed if a 'real' gw store opened in Springs, it might shut down the best indepedent store ever, gamers haven.

RavenMorpheus
16-04-2007, 07:03
Dude, I have only one indy store within 30 miles, and the nearest GW store is over 120 miles away.



What, do you walk to games nights? I'm happy to drive 35 miles or so once a week for a decent evening of gaming. At least try expanding your horizons a little before you write off the 'local' gaming scene.

Yeah actually I do walk, unless I use public transport - some of us don't drive because we can't afford to learn and have no wish to learn due to the high cost of driving in the UK at the moment.

And I see your not from the UK so you wouldn't have a clue about the cost of driving over here.

The local gaming scene is 11-20 miles away, and I don't call that very local! You wouldn't call a pub, or bar for those of us not in the UK, local if it was the nearest one for 20 miles would you?

And when it takes 1-2 hours to get to the local gaming scene and you can't get home after 22:30 because there's no public transport it's not really pratical travelling 11-20 miles is it?

I'm sure in Australia you have a brilliant public transport system and driving is dirt cheap but here in England it's not.

Sorry t-tauri and other mods but taking the michael out of someone just because you have a car and they don't isn't on. Hence the reply.

Adept
16-04-2007, 15:22
Yeah actually I do walk

Well, that sure puts a different spin on it.


some of us don't drive because we can't afford to learn and have no wish to learn due to the high cost of driving in the UK at the moment.

Sure, but do you want to depend on your legs, a bike, or public transport for the rest of your life?


And I see your not from the UK so you wouldn't have a clue about the cost of driving over here.

:rolleyes:

And I see you're not from Australia, so wouldn't have a clue about the cost of driving over here.

I also see you aren't a car owner, and are likely un-informed about the cost of vehicular maintenance in any country, but despite that liklihood I'm not going to assume anything, be it about your knowledge base or the relative costs of driving in either Australia or the UK.


The local gaming scene is 11-20 miles away, and I don't call that very local! You wouldn't call a pub, or bar for those of us not in the UK, local if it was the nearest one for 20 miles would you?

Australia is a big place. If you can drive somewhere in under an hour, it's local.

Angelwing
16-04-2007, 15:31
Yeah actually I do walk, unless I use public transport - some of us don't drive because we can't afford to learn and have no wish to learn due to the high cost of driving in the UK at the moment.

And I see your not from the UK so you wouldn't have a clue about the cost of driving over here.

The local gaming scene is 11-20 miles away, and I don't call that very local! You wouldn't call a pub, or bar for those of us not in the UK, local if it was the nearest one for 20 miles would you?

And when it takes 1-2 hours to get to the local gaming scene and you can't get home after 22:30 because there's no public transport it's not really pratical travelling 11-20 miles is it?

I'm sure in Australia you have a brilliant public transport system and driving is dirt cheap but here in England it's not.

Sorry t-tauri and other mods but taking the michael out of someone just because you have a car and they don't isn't on. Hence the reply.

driving is expensive to start with, lessons, first insurance, etc but it will get better. Learn now, because the test will only get harder! It also helps immensely with the job market.
Local. well my local club is half an hours drive away. If my nearest pub was 20 miles away it would still be the local, as its the closest!
i appreciate not being able to get back after 22.30, but could you not taxi share with your buddies? Leave early?

Gaebriel
16-04-2007, 15:46
Locally the wargaming scene is going through a rough time, but still active with one healthy open club and a couple of private groups - the company store is closed on Mondays since last year, and the independent that stocks GW is not going well.

Nationally GW opens a few new shops every year and to my information didn't close any so far.

Europewide the hobby seems to be growing, the same for the UK - only in a small percentage.

Worldwide it seems to be growing as well - again only in small percentage.

Perhaps it's just problematic in your specific area?

Osbad
16-04-2007, 15:57
I've said this before and I'll say it again: setting up your own "club" shouldn't really be that difficult.

Usual caveats apply in that I am speaking from the perspective of the UK, with its realtively high population density, but in the small village I live in (population 1,400 souls) I easily (posted up half a dozen home-made posters in local shops, library etc., and contacte a couple of people I met via the internet) attracted 3 other "mature" guys to set up a regular club meeting in my home every week. I am also aware of a bunch of wargaming teenagers who live in the village were excluded on the basis I only asked for interest from those over 16 (I'm a grumpy old fart and didn't want the hassles invloved with "child protection" issues), so potentially I could have had an even larger nucleus of a club if I had been so inclined.

Now, I also appreciate that if you are a teenager or younger it may be more difficult to get your parent's permission if needed, but that aside the mechanics are easy - all you need is some basic terrain and a room big enough to "borrow" for the evening.

So, my mantra is that premises-permitting, if gaming at your "local" venue is drying up, try recruiting a bunch of friends locally.

Of course you may find you have to make compromises, but generally speaking most gamers seem to be fairly generously minded and will, if given the option, do stuff like "I'll play the game you're interested in this week, if you'll give the game I'm interested in a shot next week". If all you are interested in is setting up a one-system club, then things may be a little harder (unless that one system is 40k in the UK perhaps, or WM in the States).

The advantages of keeping things small and in your own home are that it is no hassle at all - players are all guests in your home, so if things don't work out then your say is final (never had any problems though). There are minimal costs - there is no need to rent premises, and of course no need to stick to "GW official figures only" bull-poo which means you can use cheaper or more interesting models from other manufacturers at will.

Starting to ramble now, so I'll wrap up!

Seriously though, all prejudice aside, setting up a club meeting in your own home is definitely my preferred route.

Obviously I accept that for many this may not be an option, but if it *is* possible for you to do it, I highly recommend giving it a go. And if it doesn't work, well at least you tried. Beats sobbing into your beer because your local store went belly-up!

Zink
16-04-2007, 16:16
Ah, I had a good laugh about what's "local". I live on a farm that's 30km from a town of 500 people. Like adept anything that's an hours drive or less it's considered close. I used to have a group of 10 people from my home town and close relatives that visited often. Now there's me and one other guy. Does that mean wargaming is dying? Most of the people grew up and left for better jobs elsewhere. I'm not a great promoter because I'd prefer to play with my friends rather than recruit new kids. And at the cost of things now their parents would linch me if they got addicted like my friends were. Bad enough I converted half the town to paintball players.
Is there a point to my post. Not really,I just wanted to bitch about my woes. That's what the net is for isn't it?

Easy E
16-04-2007, 18:34
I'm curious to hear from people in the U.S that have had success setting up a games club.

I'm thinking of doing it myself, but I am wary. I am especially interested in learning about clubs that are hosted someplace other than your house.

RavenMorpheus
16-04-2007, 19:35
Well, that sure puts a different spin on it.

Sure, but do you want to depend on your legs, a bike, or public transport for the rest of your life?

:rolleyes:

And I see you're not from Australia, so wouldn't have a clue about the cost of driving over here.

I also see you aren't a car owner, and are likely un-informed about the cost of vehicular maintenance in any country, but despite that liklihood I'm not going to assume anything, be it about your knowledge base or the relative costs of driving in either Australia or the UK.



Australia is a big place. If you can drive somewhere in under an hour, it's local.

Actually Adept I am very well informed of the costs involved in running and maintaining a car, I happen to have worked for my father until recently and he runs his own mechanics business. I also know that petrol in Oz costs somewhere in the region of AUS $1.34+ per litre which it shockingly soared to recently (in Canberra anyway) whereas we in the UK pay at least AUS $2.70 for a litre of petrol, if not more like AUS $3, and then there is road and vehicle tax, insurance all of which are sky high and climbing. And our government is thinking of introducing a "pay per mile you drive" scheme on top of all of that, so your right to not assume anything about my knowledge base, because it's not as limited as it seems.

And if I end up walking for the rest of eternity at least I'll be as fit and healthy as those of you out there that drive - but I won't have had to spend hours in the gym because I've developed a lardy **** from driving :p


driving is expensive to start with, lessons, first insurance, etc but it will get better. Learn now, because the test will only get harder! It also helps immensely with the job market.
Local. well my local club is half an hours drive away. If my nearest pub was 20 miles away it would still be the local, as its the closest!
i appreciate not being able to get back after 22.30, but could you not taxi share with your buddies? Leave early?

Less traveling time = more game time.
Less £/$ spent on cars = more £/$ for other things like mortgage, hobbies etc.


Ah, I had a good laugh about what's "local". I live on a farm that's 30km from a town of 500 people. Like adept anything that's an hours drive or less it's considered close. I used to have a group of 10 people from my home town and close relatives that visited often. Now there's me and one other guy. Does that mean wargaming is dying? Most of the people grew up and left for better jobs elsewhere. I'm not a great promoter because I'd prefer to play with my friends rather than recruit new kids. And at the cost of things now their parents would linch me if they got addicted like my friends were. Bad enough I converted half the town to paintball players.
Is there a point to my post. Not really,I just wanted to bitch about my woes. That's what the net is for isn't it?

Yeah well when you live in the middle of nowhere I can understand that an hours drive is nothing to you, but in the UK we don't generaly live somewhere where the nearest toilet (or dunny for the benefit of Adept and others in Oz) is 100 miles away.

I don't call something 30 miles away whether its the nearest of its type "local" - and I think the point to the topic has been missed, whether I drive, fly, swim, or site-site teleport to a games club is irrelevant the fact is like redbaron998 from GA, USA who started this thread my local gaming scene in the town I live in and the immediate surrounding area, 5-7 miles-ish is dead and never really got off the ground anyway.

And because of that I have no choice but to travel further afield if I wish to take part in a games club - this isn't the same case for everyone in the UK though a lot of big towns/cities have many games clubs/GW stores/indy stores and people in those areas are spoilt for choice, but it is a bit random and patchy, but on the whole unless you live in a big town/city I believe GW gaming is on the decline as far as GW shops/Indy stores and possibly even gaming clubs are concerned in the UK.

Zink
16-04-2007, 20:24
Sorry if me laughing at you offended you. Nothing personal. I know very little about the abundance of GW and gaming in general in the UK. But saying that there's nothing in a 7 mile area was funny to me. Is transport that really crappy that you can't ride at least part of the distance and then walk some to game? Not saying you're wrong. But it's one very small area even for a small country like England.

I've lived in large cities for awhile (1 city of 1 million, another of about 2 million people) so I'm not a total hick with no idea of what it entails. And while I lived there I had to use a bus because I didn't have a legal drivers license for that country.

RavenMorpheus
16-04-2007, 20:27
Sorry if me laughing at you offended you. Nothing personal. I know very little about the abundance of GW and gaming in general in the UK. But saying that there's nothing in a 7 mile area was funny to me. Is transport that really crappy that you can't ride at least part of the distance and then walk some to game? Not saying you're wrong. But it's one very small area even for a small country like England.

I've lived in large cities for awhile (1 city of 1 million, another of about 2 million people) so I'm not a total hick with no idea of what it entails. And while I lived there I had to use a bus because I didn't have a legal drivers license for that country.

No offence taken, I can and do use public transport but like I said previously the nearest clubs/GW shop is 11-20 miles away and takes upwards of 45 minutes on public transport. And believe me compared to most countries our public transport system is a total joke, and that's an understatment, but also like I said it's irrelevant - if GW supported the game a tiny bit more after sales there might be a bit more of a "local" community outside of the large towns/cities.

lanrak
16-04-2007, 20:30
Hi all.
Swiftly moving on..
My friends and I set up a 'free house' gaming club at our local independant stockist.
We were allowed to use a vacant upstairs store room on saturdays.
At a nominal admission charge of a pound stirling,(to go towards the cost of gaming tables and other parifinalia.)

Any one interested could come and have a look see.If they wanted to bring thier own favorite game for us to try out ,even better.
Over 9 years we got to play in exess of 30 different games systems,covering all genres time periods and scales.Variety is the spice of life,as they say..

The store improves its customer base,as the club probabley attracts more folk to the store.
If you ask at your local hobby store ,see if they can accomodate you and your fellow gamers.They might like the idea,if they dont at least you have tried.

TTFN
Lanrak.

RavenMorpheus
16-04-2007, 20:37
If you ask at your local hobby store ,see if they can accomodate you and your fellow gamers.They might like the idea,if they dont at least you have tried.

TTFN
Lanrak.

Isn't the point of the thread - GW gaming is it growing anywhere?

Part of the problem is that a lot of areas in countries don't even have a "local" hobby store, my town doesn't and it's a fairly afflluent and medium sized town in the London region (well it's full of people from London who commute to London for work anyway) the nearest hobby store I can think of is 7 miles away and it's easier to get to the GW store 11 miles away, unless you drive which we've already covered.

So because indy hobby stores and GW shops are few and far between in certain areas the GW hobby is on the decline, people won't take it up if they have to travel for miles just to get a game and people who are currently gaming may just give up eventually IMO.

Karnage
16-04-2007, 20:44
Sadly my local hobby store, Classical Toys and Models in Port Talbot has closed, which is a shame as it used to be a good source of cheaper paintbrushes (including finer grades than the Citadel ones) as well as a relatively decent (but small) collection of GW items. There wasn't any real gaming area to speak of though.

I don't know if there's anyone local to the Swansea/Port Talbot/Neath area who uses the boards and can tell me what the community at the Swansea store in terms of gaming is like, or even if there's any alternatives around at the moment. The closest I remember hearing about was a club in Baglan, but that was a good 7 years or so ago now and I've yet to hear anything else about it (the staff at the store has pretty much changed completely since I heard about it).

Crazy Harborc
17-04-2007, 02:20
Well, the one local indie chain of comics, boardgames and GW products.....Now has GW products at the main store (for the chain of them) only. 3 idies closed in the last year/year and a half. The GW store is "making all it's monthly quotas" (last heard by me a month ago). A new indie stocking GW (other companies as well) opened about a hour from my location and WAY south of my location.

The "other" local (historical) wargamers (who have a club/group) who play VERY little GW systems, are still going at it weekly. They are meeting way south of my location. They host a tourney/convention yearly. I believe a couple of three hundred attend (I don't care for tournies)

I don't know how the "GW hobby" is doing. The hobby of wargaming is still going on. The hobby of wargaming predates GW by at least 150 years, by the by.;)

RavenMorpheus
17-04-2007, 02:23
The hobby of wargaming predates GW by at least 150 years, by the by.;)

Even before that, Sun Tzu probably played wargames. :)

Osbad
17-04-2007, 10:44
As RavenMorpheous reminded us "is GW actually florishing anywhere?" was the point of the thread, so I'd better address it from my perspective as I did dribble OT for a while there...

I see GW stores still staying open in the UK. From my understanding of the mechanics of these things (which is only second hand at best) GW stores' main custom tends to come from the newer end of the market - for many, many people their first exposure to any sort of wargaming is walking past the bright orange store front and seeing the little painted men in the window. Over time, for whatever reason, people arguably drift away - certainly GW's own internal business model expects people to stay as a GW customer for only 2 years on average, and thereafter for whatever reason their buying tails off.

So the very fact that GW stores haven't withered on the vine indicates that there is a significant enough amount of new blood entering the hobby to justify their existance. At least how I read things. Whether this is more or less than there was before and whether price rises/rules changes/lack of rules changes/competition etc. has made this number smaller or not is not the point. It is simply a truism that GW stores get closed if they don't make enough sales, and that most sales through GW stores are to people who have been playing the games for 2 years or less. Ergo, in many areas GW games must be "flourishing" to that extent in regard to the level of new interest.

Further evidence of this was the success of the Adepticon tournament in the US this year. For many years previously the US GT scene had been a dwindling joke. The success Adepticon made of things and the general improvement in the official tourney scene would indicate that there is still a "flourishing" base of players interested in playing the games to a serious level. In the UK the tournament scene remains storng and vibrant.

On the other hand, at the level of "experienced gamers" there is much to suggest that GW is not flourishing as it used to. In my own club we have experienced a drift away from GW games - partially due to price (no one can afford - or chooses to afford - to splurge on new releases every few months), partly due to the increased competition now available from all sorts of areas (we all like trying new things rather than just sit playing different variants of the same old game week after week). I have heard anecdotal evidence that in "indie clubs" across the UK, this picture is repeated. It isn't scientific, but I hear lots of comments from people reducing the amount they involve themselves with GW games and increasing the amount they involve themselves with the competition. Of course there remain clubs I know where GW games almost exclusively the focus of their activities. Presumably there, GW is "flourishing".

Generally the picture I see around the place regarding GW is that there is still an active and enthusiastic community participating in their games. Arguably less large and to an extent (mainly because of price rises) somewhat less enthusiastic than it used to be, but still significant.

What else I have noticed is that in the UK, the non-GW gaming sector is growing fantastically. Only 5 or so years back it seemed like the only visible non-GW wargaming around were the beard-wearing, pot-bellied, real-ale drinking old farts clubs that held massive 10mm scale re-enactments of Waterloo which took 6 weeks to resolve one turn of combat. While that held some sort of attraction in and of itself to me, I am much more turned on by the upsurge in alternative Sci-fi/Fantasy gaming I have witnessed in the last few years.

I see plenty evidence that the wargaming sector as a whole is "flourishing". There are peaks and troughs, and the unbridled growth of the last 3 or 4 years won't last forever, but the evidence I see around me points more towards a conclusion that GW's slice of the pie is reducing, but the overall pie remains a similar size to what it always has.

Rob0362
18-04-2007, 17:50
Well it has finally happened here. The Intrest in GW and really gaming in general in Georgia at the Hobby Town where I play is almost dead. They are starting to downsize the GW section little by little. We are down to two Regulars that come every other week other than myself. So is gw actually florishing anywhere? I know Chicago and LA have some busy places but I keep hearing of GW stores and franchises closing and not much growth.

So is GW growing anywhere?


Well as I am in Georgia IT is Growing Quite well in Gwinnett we have a Store In Duluth and Store at the Mall of Georgia( GW HOBBY CENTER) and they both do well

GW is focusing its growth in 10 Metro Areas in the US

ashc
18-04-2007, 18:04
the gaming group here at uni (Leeds UK) Don't play 40k or warhammer (although i may be able to get some people together for that one; or convert them all to armies of arcana...) and its pretty much all Warmachine/Hordes going on here, or specialist games. Everyone here has or had 40k and fantasy armies in the past, but got bored and moved on.

Ash

FarseerUshanti
18-04-2007, 18:18
I have to say that here in Pittsburgh, Games Workshop systems in general are doing pretty well. We have 2 stores just around Pittsburgh and several stores an hour away. We also have a club that has grown to over 50 members within two years and another club that is large on Fantasy and still does well with 40k. Our new club also has the ability to run around 4 tournaments for 40k a year in addition to some Fantasy and Warmachine tournaments. So if anythng i wold have to say the population is shifting in terms of where GW games are being played.

Lockjaw
18-04-2007, 23:06
All the gaming stores I used to go to to play are closed down out of business, but they sold more than just GW. There's a comic shop by campus that also sells gaming supplies, but they're getting rid of their GW stock and have said they have no plans to ever carry it again. as for playing though, there's still a fairly large number of players of WFB and 40k (mostly 40k) and I've been able to get a game in at least once a week or so

Lord Martel
19-04-2007, 04:32
While in Chicago GW is still strong in the far Western burbs (Rockford) GW is nearly dead. The local gamming stores are carrying limited GW products. Our Hobby Town just sent their remaining stock back to GW and said “see ya” to its gamers.

Historical are starting to reemerge as the local gamers are starting to “grow up”. ;)

redbaron998
19-04-2007, 13:28
I friend of mine told me about a place called "The War Room" which is a store in Duluth GA. He told me its mainly Flames of War and such but much of the 40k and WFB congregation has moved there, due to the fact that they actually play tournaments and are dedicated soley to Wargaming instead of just a model section in a Hobby Store. I will have to go check it out but maybe there is hope.

Hope...what a dangerous thought

GAWD
19-04-2007, 22:18
Historical are starting to reemerge as the local gamers are starting to “grow up”. ;)

Interesting how "growing up" and GW seem to be mutually exclusive.

I've been saying this for a while, and GW's own financial reports back this up ... GW is receding in the US.

In my area, GW has been on life support for ~4 yrs. Up until this past year, we hadn't seen a decent batch of new GW gamers for a long time. Most of them are already moving onto other things.

GW will always do well were there are bunch of rich people w/rich kids to feed their overpriced "hobby." This is why GW is still doing fine in the big coastal urban areas (Philly, Chi, Pitt, NY, LA, etc...). GW is very quickly making itself a metropolitan brand totally out of reach for the average person, and as a result, GW is losing traction in middle America.

Crazy Harborc
20-04-2007, 01:37
For many years, GW(in the USA at least)and it's stores have chosen to ignore established adult wargamers (non-GW gamers). GW now pretends it's systems are a seperate hobby, not part of the hobby of wargaming. The hobby of GW, the hobby of Warhammer. Hey, I have and do play GW's systems/rules. The "hobby of Warhammer" ramblings out of GW officialdom is so much drivel.

The supply of potental newbies is seeing way more to choose from than GW and it's toy soldiers. Yes, PCs, Gameboys, etc are expensive, so are the games to play on them. BUT, open the box and the games are ready to insert and turn on;) Then there's GW's also expensive minies needed to build a army. Just as soon as the minies are assembled and painted....A few days/weeks/months after opening the boxes....maybe the minies will be used.

Old style hobbies (that includes wargaming THAT includes GW) are not as popular with pre-teens and teens.

Dtrik
20-04-2007, 02:36
Well here in Rhode Island there isnt a GW in the whole state and there is only one indie store! One! They just added tables this past summer so before then there were 0! The only decent indie shops we've ever had (Your Move Games and Tactics Games) went strong for awhile but suddenly disappeared, out of business. I just recently discovered a small group of half a dozen 40k players and I just found one fantasy player on WarSeer. Seriously, NO ONE in Rhode Island plays. It may be a small state but driving out of state for a game is pretty bad because Im pretty much in the center of RI. We need some players here!

carlisimo
29-04-2007, 20:16
Adept, I don't know about Australia, but here in the US getting your driver's license costs a few hundred dollars at most. In Europe it's a few to several thousand (USD), and the tests hold you to a very, very high standard (compared to American tests).

In the college city I was at, the hobby was doing well - mostly because of the great hobby store there. Now I'm back in my hometown half an hour away, where a great hobby store was bought out to make room for a mall. A chain hobby store popped up and it tries, but it's not even close in its support of GW games.

When it comes to working people, I think the Specialist Games range is a lot easier for people to get into. I'm very happy to see them being relatively well-maintained by GW.

The game is afoot
29-04-2007, 20:30
For what it's worth I have owned vehicles and driven in Australia and the UK, (and a few other countries) and it is definitely cheaper to do so in Aussie than in the UK.

Mikhaila
30-04-2007, 01:14
Interesting how "growing up" and GW seem to be mutually exclusive.

I've been saying this for a while, and GW's own financial reports back this up ... GW is receding in the US.

.

Really? I guess you missed the many multipage threads that came out with their 6 month numbers. The US went from 21.9 million in revinue up to 22.9 million, during the same 6 month time period in 2005 vs 2006.

I've also got about 50 customers over the age of 40 that game regularly at my shop, playing GW games. So the whole 'mutally exclusive part' doesn't hold in all areas.

The game is afoot
30-04-2007, 06:36
I've also got about 50 customers over the age of 40 that game regularly at my shop, playing GW games. .

I find that extremely difficult to believe Mikhaila.
50 customers aged over 40 years playing GW games at one single shop?
I used to run the most successful Veterans night in the UK (120 stores) at a GW store, regularly clocking in at over 30 players attending on a Thursday night. I used to have ONE player over 40 and he was bringing his 16 year old son.
Hmmmm....
I've only ever seen 50 gamers over 40 years of age at Tournaments.
All of those tournaments were for the historical systems, DBM and DBA.
I've lived in 4 countries, played Warhammer in all of them, and travelled to another 4 countries specifically to play Warhammer at tournaments and I have never seen fifty over 40 year olds playing WFB or 40K in the same room.
Those GW tourneys had 150 people attending but the average age was around 24.
I have never seen or heard of any store anywhere having those kinds of numbers in that demographic.
That doesn't mean it's impossible, but I find it extremely unlikely.

On occasion I make it down to the largest Wargaming club in the entire UK, (thats knocking on 60 million people in a smal geographical area and it's the home of GW) South London Warlords.
I went there three times last year.
On a good club night they will have over 50 members attending. Not all of them will be over 40 but the great majority will be over 30.
On those three occasions last year I saw a total of six players engaging in GW games, that was two out of over 50 players on each night I attended.
The chap who was trying to run a WFB League gave up because the numbers that signed up were low and then they fell away quickly.
He is now playing War Machine more than anything and he also attended the 'Armies of Arcana' tournament here in London yesterday (Sunday).
Older gamers have been gravitating away from GW games in large numbers for a few years now.
Thats why initially WAB swelled in numbers of participants (until power creep in the books started to cause problems) and now Flames of War is doing very well.
Many of the new recruits are older gamers and former WFB players of many years.
Older gamers have been and continue to gravitate away from GW game systems.

starlight
30-04-2007, 06:51
Actually us older gamers go where we're treated well. If Mikhaila treats his customers well (and I presume he does based on seeing him around these parts) they'll flock to him in droves - *because GW treats them like crap*.

I spoke with a *F*LGS a bit ago and he said he wasn't interested in running events that appealed to older/veteran gamers. Why? His words:

"Because I don't want to bring out those type of gamers."

:wtf:

Imagine if someone started a bunker type store that had a dozen tables and facilities that catered to *gamers* and was staffed by people who loved gaming?

Maybe Mikhaila runs stores like that? I know I want to.

grickherder
30-04-2007, 08:10
The funny thing is that it's the older/veteran gamers who have the cash. While teeny-boppers can get their parents to spend a few hundred and beg for birthday presents, a 40 year old who likes the hobby usually has the income to do what they enjoy well. Forgeworld models, ambitious terrain projects, new armies for every big tournament and other things are often done more by gamers over 40 than under-- atleast that's what I've seen.

I'm not quite there yet myself, but I've seen older gamers walk into a store and drop nearly a thousand dollars on miniatures in one visit. I've seen people who have an army they want to sell try to get some good coin for their paint job if it's decent. Everyone else around them tells them "you're asking too much" and then an older fellow with more money than time snaps up the painted army for three or more times it's retail price if he'd bought it new. He wants to play the game, but between work and the wife and kids, he can't spend a lot of time painting-- so he buys a nice painted army. The 40+ crowd are the crowd to cater to when it comes to wargaming.

"Because I don't want to bring out those type of gamers."

:wtf: indeed

N0-1_H3r3
30-04-2007, 08:30
On occasion I make it down to the largest Wargaming club in the entire UK, (thats knocking on 60 million people in a smal geographical area and it's the home of GW) South London Warlords.
I went there three times last year.
On a good club night they will have over 50 members attending. Not all of them will be over 40 but the great majority will be over 30.
I wonder what the definition of "largest wargaming club in the UK" is, then. I'm a regular at Spiky Club in Reading, Berkshire, and used to be on the committee there. We get 65-80 people a week there, most of whom are adults (the venue is a Post Office Social Club, with a bar on site, so we don't admit anyone under 16, and discourage under-18s), and about half of whom are over 30. Most of the wargames played are GW ones (Warmachine has a small following, but most of the Warmachine players also play Warhammer or 40k), which covers about two-thirds of the people attending every week (the other third are people playing CCGs, Board Games or RPGs). And we've been growing in size every year for almost a decade now.

Then again, gaming (in general) has never suffered in Reading. Several local book shops stock a token amount of RPG and CCG products, we've had a GW store for about two decades, which is currently in a larger venue than the previous two locations, we've got two independent retailers who deal with all the non-GW games (no retailer in Reading really bothers with GW stuff, as we've got a GW store in the town centre). Further, until a couple of years ago, the Colours gaming convention was held in Reading, and GenCon UK is held in Reading University, which if memory serves has a significant population of gamers.

Mikhaila
30-04-2007, 12:32
I find that extremely difficult to believe Mikhaila.
50 customers aged over 40 years playing GW games at one single shop?

My shop sells nearly what a GW company store in the US sells, and sells more core sets than they average. We have 8 tables that are available 7 nights a week, and their aren't many nights that we don't have games of one type or another being played. Most of my adult gamers do multiple game systems. We also sell a ton of Warmachine and Flames of War. We stock every figure that is currently in print for WFB, 40k, LOTR, FOW, WM, and Hoardes, and usually in multiples. The store is large, air conditioned, in a large mall with easy parking. Lots of food places inside the mall, and a bar. We stay open late on Fridays a lot to accomodate veterans. Sometimes until 2am and a run to the local Denny's for breakfast. (Painting class for the kids is rough on me the next morning!). We ahve two different clubs that use the store on a regular basis.

I didn't originally think "what kind of place would veterans like to play at". It just evolved. I like the GW games myself, and have a dozen different armies. Over the 20 years we have been in business I went from a 25 year old with 1 army to a 45 year old veteran with lots of them. The stores always reflected the type of shops that I wanted to play at.

Gaebriel
30-04-2007, 16:10
... The stores always reflected the type of shops that I wanted to play at.
The more you talk about your stores, the more I wish to live in Philadelphia... ;)

Technically, I don't find that hard to believe, The game is afoot. If I had a store with that dedication around, I would nurture it - spend most of my budget there instead on the Internet, and I'm sure regularly overspend (but die happy at the end of my life). I would also happily play in such an atmosphere - and I'm usually a private place gamer, not too fond of stores and clubs. A solid location with a likeminded clientel will easily draw more of the same - and I think that's doubly true for older hobbyists, who may be easier repulsed by sub-par circumstances.

Crazy Harborc
30-04-2007, 21:28
Don't forget, there are many, many GW gamers who don't know that wargaming is more than just a GW invention.

Mikhaila likely does have 50 plus GW players, over the hill players (STILL young ones;) ). If (I can't say, Philies a LONG way to go)he is walking the talk, he'll keep them too. I wonder who sells minies for the historical gamers ?

Our local GW store (only one in the state) has cornered the market on GW players....GW players, NOT wargamers in general. The other stores have chosen NOT to try to attact the large number of non-GW players.....they don't stock the "other" (historical) minies just the other "niche" miniatures games rules and minies.

Mikhaila
01-05-2007, 06:35
I wonder who sells minies for the historical gamers ?

.

I sell a ton of Flames of War as well.) We do FOW on Tuesday and Saturday nights. Even split between old fogey historical guys, and 18 and unders who want to play with WW2 models. We have 3 big historical cons a year that are about an hour drive. Most of us pick up a hodgepodge of other minis at those, for various systems.

I just finished a 12 foot gaming table for the normandy invasion, we try it out this week, and next, and then it goes into the shop window for 4 months.

fwacho
01-05-2007, 11:18
here in the Dallas area it seesm that about 80-90% the gaming is done in home on friday and satuday nights. When the store closes at 7pm that's it, man. In college (1500 students only) another guy and I trained about 8 other players from scratch with our own armies. i believ the game has died there since we left.

here I play with the local gamers frm the local college as well as pack of single 25-40 yearolds who also do Flames of war when I can get a satureday night off from waiting tables.

I'll be joining the military soon and hoping for a tour in europe so I can get in some more regular gaming. i average about 3-4 games a month right now.

The hobby is alive in Dallas you just have to be willing to make calls and connect to people. Anotehr way is to hang out at one of the few game stores and ask every person that comes in if they play GW games.

Crazy Harborc
02-05-2007, 02:15
I sell a ton of Flames of War as well.) We do FOW on Tuesday and Saturday nights. Even split between old fogey historical guys, and 18 and unders who want to play with WW2 models. We have 3 big historical cons a year that are about an hour drive. Most of us pick up a hodgepodge of other minis at those, for various systems.

I just finished a 12 foot gaming table for the normandy invasion, we try it out this week, and next, and then it goes into the shop window for 4 months.

You got a shop window that can hold a 12 foot table??

Do you stock or special order minies for other historical players such as WAB? Um.......not looking for a place to order. I am just trying to get a better mental picture of your store.

GAWD
02-05-2007, 02:19
Mik's store is heaven on earth, a veritable shangrila. ;)

Mikhaila
02-05-2007, 14:54
You got a shop window that can hold a 12 foot table??

Do you stock or special order minies for other historical players such as WAB? Um.......not looking for a place to order. I am just trying to get a better mental picture of your store.

When we set up the store in Granite Run Mall, one side of the frontage was 12 ft. of continuous glass. The store frontage is slanted a bit, so the area behind the glass was a bit of an alcove, and we decided to turn it into a display area. About twice a year I build 12'x4' displays to go into it, and we paint up a few hundred miniatures. Current one shows off a small army for each of the 14 different Warhammer Fantasy armies. We used every large model they make, including every dragon and 4 different conversions of the new giant. Next up is D-Day invasion of Normandy, using Flames of War. Half the area is beachfront with bunkers, wire, tank traps, and underwater obstacles. Landing craft and DD shermans storming the beach. The inland area is a small village with US paratroopers, and a couple hundred stands of german infantry and tanks racing to reinforce the front.

Lots of work, but as each display comes out of the window, we gain huge amounts of figures for store armies and demos, and an interesting array of new scenery. The window displays are a kind of showing off, and drags in the people walking by that might not bother to take a look otherwise.

For special orders, it basically depends on the manufacturer. If they are using a US distributor, I can place orders for product. If they only use overseas distribution, or self distribute, it gets trickier. Some don't wholesale at all. I have several accouts set up with different distributors, as each one carries a bit different stuff.

Dread Lime
02-05-2007, 15:50
It comes and goes. Interests tend to drop off in the fall and pick back up in spring. There's also a tendency for games to rotate in and out of favor.
Folks'll play Fantasy for a bit, then move to 40k, the on to B5-, then Warmachine, a bit of historicals, then back to fantasy and so on. If your game isn't up then you either look for whatever pickup games you can find, take a break, or learn a new game.