PDA

View Full Version : Shouldn't these units immune to poison?



him_15
15-04-2007, 22:25
1. Skeleton: The whole body being bone construct, it's rather weird that poisoned attack would work on them.

2. Tomb, Jungle swarm: These tiny, deadly creatures are already messive poisoned, shouldn't they immune to any kind of poison?

3.Ethereal Creatures: Although only magical weapon can hit them. A weapon with both magical and poisoned still wound them automatically on a 6 hit:wtf:

MalusCalibur
15-04-2007, 22:31
1. Skeleton: The whole body being bone construct, it's rather weird that poisoned attack would work on them.

2. Tomb, Jungle swarm: These tiny, deadly creatures are already messive poisoned, shouldn't they immune to any kind of poison?

3.Ethereal Creatures: Although only magical weapon can hit them. A weapon with both magical and poisoned still wound them automatically on a 6 hit:wtf:

Game balance trumps common sense sometimes. Think of it as acid, or magic poison: justify it however you feel comfortable.


MalusCalibur

Angry Lawyer
15-04-2007, 22:31
I can't remember where I read it (back in the days of 4th edition Fantasy/2nd edition 40K) inexplicable poison effects in both genres has creative reasons. Like, when an army knows it'll be fighting undead, the poison is actually some form of holy water they've doused on the blades. Or in 40K, certain toxins that wouldn't affect Tyranids are said to have been replaced with something specifically developed to fight them.

Or something.

-Angry Lawyer

Wargamejunkie
15-04-2007, 23:31
Your not the only one who has read it Angry Lawyer. I remember having seen that before, specifically the undead and holy water instead of regular poisons.

MadJackMcJack
15-04-2007, 23:43
It's pretty much a case of the posioners using different kinds of poisons for different targets. The WHRPG bestiary has a "Scholar's view" section for each kind of monster/race/whatever, and one of the scholars quoted is a Clan Eshin master assassin, and his view is always the correct kind of poison to use vs the discussed race/monster/thingy. Coincidentaly, skeletons are "Powdered warpstone in a linseed oil base" while banshees are simply "Warpstone weapons." Funnily enough, his advice for wraiths is "Avoid!".

Also, just because a creature makes poison doesn't make them immune to poison.

ashc
16-04-2007, 00:32
I concur with everything everyone above has said; horses for courses and all that.

Ash

Marcel
16-04-2007, 02:52
there are other types of poison. holy water, acid, etc that would be effective against undead and other things, or in the case of acid, everything. A lizard Warlord could request a slann to bless some water for the skink blowpipes.

forgottenlor
16-04-2007, 10:08
So, yes, they should be immune to poison (logically speaking) and no they should not be immune to poison (in terms of game balance) All these creatures are already costing lots of points for their special abilities and it just would not be good for undead armies if their infantry blocks costed even more. Both the swarm and etheral creatures also cost a bundle. I would rather have them as they are then spend more points and have them be immune to poison.

Archaon
16-04-2007, 17:48
2. Tomb, Jungle swarm: These tiny, deadly creatures are already messive poisoned, shouldn't they immune to any kind of poison?


There's a ton of different poisons and some animals are not even immune towards their own poison.. if it ever enters their bloodstream they will suffer and die like everything else.

Wintersdark
16-04-2007, 18:06
~nods~ The term poison, for Warhammer, refers to a wide varienty of substances/effects that all fall under a common ruleset. It doesn't necessarily mean poison in the traditional sense, it's just a convenient label.

xiau
16-04-2007, 18:28
i thought this a while back myself, i mean a skellie being poisoned? right and the poison flows through which bloodstream exactly? but then i looked at it with more thought and came to the conclusion everyone else has said, it's a fantasy game, so sometimes you need to incorporate a little thought, holy water for the undead etc

TheWarSmith
16-04-2007, 18:52
You would think they'd be immune to killing blow as well, as lopping off a skeleton head doesn't accomplish much, but for game purposes, they are.

EvC
16-04-2007, 19:22
Really poison should be race-specific, like with Hatred.

For example:
Upgrade Skink bows to poisonous: does not affect Undead unit.
Upgrade Archer arrows to silver-coating: affects Undead units.
Lace swords with rat-poison: affects Skaven units.
etc. etc.
But it would be too wordy to implement, so it isn't.

Doomclaw
16-04-2007, 19:39
And it would be unballancing, without list tooling poison would even become useless.

Hulkster
16-04-2007, 19:40
EvC why?

dont you think an army would plan in advance

besides, they only did this to makes things easier and make them viable options

people had stopped taking poisonous units in tournies because the points were wasted on undead armies and daemons

this way is much more fair and fun

Wintersdark
16-04-2007, 22:13
Exactly. You want to be able to design an army that can face all comers. Forcing armies to buy poison specific to a given opponent makes poisonous troops useless unless fighting those specific opponents. To do that would require VASTLY decreasing the point value of poison... which would unbalance poison vs. the correct opponent.

This way is simpler, cleaner, and makes poisonous troops useful.

Tooling lists to a specific opponent is kinda bleh anyways.

TheWarSmith
16-04-2007, 22:25
Really poison should be race-specific, like with Hatred.

For example:
Upgrade Skink bows to poisonous: does not affect Undead unit.
Upgrade Archer arrows to silver-coating: affects Undead units.
Lace swords with rat-poison: affects Skaven units.
etc. etc.
But it would be too wordy to implement, so it isn't.

That'd make it excessively cumbersome and give huge advantages to undead.

Angry Lawyer
16-04-2007, 22:57
You would think they'd be immune to killing blow as well, as lopping off a skeleton head doesn't accomplish much, but for game purposes, they are.

A killing blow doesn't have to be decapitation - you could cleave straight through the ribcage, seperating the skeleton into two neat pieces :P

-Angry Lawyer

ashc
16-04-2007, 23:14
If i am correct the fluffy reasoning for things like killing blow working on skellies is that a magical animation field holds the creature together; by breaking that field, the creature crumbles.

Ash

EvC
16-04-2007, 23:49
EvC why?

dont you think an army would plan in advance

Of course they would. So why doesn't the game reflect the fact that Empire armies fighting the undead would surely kit out their archers with silver-tipped arrows for insta-poison effect? ;)

I'm not seriously suggesting that you should have to buy race-specific poison in the regular game, I'm just saying that if you were to think about it "logically", then you can make any weapon poisonous to almost anything that exists in the game. Poison is a silly concept in Warhammer, implemented in a silly way, but it's simple so it gets away with it.