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huitzilopochtli
15-04-2007, 23:15
"Argh! By the gods these things are terrible!"
This was my reaction when i last played with my TKs. I dont know why, but i've always been really bad at battle strategies with these guys. I usually play about 2000 points and lose miserably (i have however won against the scaven: thank god for fear causing!!) because i have no overall plan. recently i started collecting lizardmen and so far i've managed to win the magority of my battles with them, so i decided to have another go at the TKs.

The last time i played the TKs my plan was to hold back and allow my enemy to come forward while i peppered them with arrows and magic, before charging with the chariots. however, i only managed to kill at most 2 people a turn with my arrows and when my chariots attacked they were quickly flanked and killed before they could destroy even one unit!

i'd like some ideas on what i could do with the models i have, based on a 2000 point army. i am likely to be fighting dwarves, vampire counts, scaven and orcs, and would like to know what the best ways of using my army are to defeat them.

Here 's what i own
Tomb King/prince with chariot
Liche priest
Liche priest on horse
Liche priest on casket of souls

16skel warriors with bows
16skel warriors with hand weapons and shields
16skel warriors with spears
8heavy cavelry
5chariots

3ushabti
4carrion
a tomb scorpion

I know its not a great selection, (i really wish i had a catepult!) but as i'm building on my LMs now, i'm not going to expand more on these guys for a while.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Mad Makz
16-04-2007, 01:38
That's a really tough list to do anything with... The only thing I could possibly suggest is proxying the Skeleton warriors as Tomb Guard to give you SOMETHING that can fight.

One of the issues with Tomb Kings is that they are not a combined arms list really until you get above 3000 points. They are either heavily offensive, or heavily defensive. Your available units are all undersized to take advantage of fear causing, and lack hitting power.

The only thing I could suggest with your models is to turn your chariot unit into a 'Eggs in one basket' heavy hitting unit - it's not that great but it might work. Tomb prince in one, Tomb Prince in another (conversion required), Icon bearer in a third, Banner that gives +1 to hit on the first round of combat on the Icon Bearer, Warbanner on the unit's Standard.

And a Liche High Priest on foot. This unit basically hammersthe opponent and uses a combination of the two my will be dones from the tomb princes and the incantation for the Liche High Priest to guarantee getting off devestating flank charges.

As you have a unit strength of 20, +3 combat resolution, 6 high strength attacks from the two Tomb Princes, two high killing blow attacks form the Icon bearer, potentially 4 x D3 S4 Impact hits, and a very mobile unit thanks to incantations you'll create a fairly decent sledge hammer that the enemy will have to deal with. The rest of your army would be equipped to harass the enemy with the carrion, and use the tomb scorpion and ushabti to support the skeleton warriors.

The entire army would deploy in a refused flank, so that you can keep your Liche High priest near all the troops on one side of the table.

It won't be 'great', but it maximises the hittiness of your army without buying a lot more models (just making a few conversions.) Plus it gives you a unit that your opponents might actually really fear, which is always good for moral.

forgottenlor
16-04-2007, 08:36
I actually think you can win with these minatures. I almost never play with the tomb guard and do fine with tomb kings. I would suggest splitting up your chariots in two group of 3 and putting your skeletons together into two units of 24. That way you have more flankers and your skeletons can hold enemy units longer until you can hit their flanks. The tomb king skeletons, the Ushabti, and perhaps the scorpion can be used for hitting power. Before you play consider if it is worth burying the scorpion (does your opponent have lots of nasty siege engines) or if it better supporting an infantry block to use its hitting powert.

mortetvie
16-04-2007, 11:19
The Tomb King rare choices really make the army shine. You are pretty much shooting yourself in the foot by not taking any.

If you want to be aggressive, assaulty. Take a bone giant or two. They hit hard and will take most of the armies punishment. You can move up with the rest of the army and support their charge.

If you want to be defensive, a catapult and a casket (or two catapults) work really well. These sort of force the enemy to come to you.

I'd expand one unit of archers to 20 or 24 and have the other warrior squad be 24. This makes your skeleton units big and survivable and more forgiving if you take casualties, which you will. Banner of undying legion helps here too.

The TK cavalry never did much of anything for me. I don't use them because I play a defensive list. How do you LIKE to play tombkings? I can give you better advice on what to buy and so on because some people like to be aggressive, my list is defensive with offensive capabilities.

I also am a strong advocate of tombgaurd. When they take the icon of rakaph, they become very maneuverable and can do amazing things. A free reform before the movement phase has won me many a battles.

huitzilopochtli
16-04-2007, 13:11
thanks for your advice.

I was thinking of getting a bone giant before i started the lizardmen, but i really hate the model so i decided against it. i'll look into it again as soon as i can.

anyway... with the models i have i was considering this idea.
liche high priest on foot, (with the cloak of the dunes)
tomb prince
liche priest on horse
liche priest on casket

skels 24 bow
skels 24 hand weapon/shield
chariot 3
heavy cavelry 5

ushabti 3
tomb scorpion 1

my plan would be to try and take out enemy wizards with magic/arrowfire (always hitting on 5s helps) and dominating in the magic phase, allowing the enemy to come to me before hitting the centre units with a block of skels, and flanking with the cavelry and chariots on either side. The ushabti and scorpion would serve as protectors, blocking anything that gets in the way of the plan.

What do you think of this?

forgottenlor
17-04-2007, 08:02
If you don't like the bone giant, you could always get a catapult. They aren't easy minatures to put together, but they look cool when you're finished, and you can shoot them twice a round with magic. I think you should have the points. OTherwise I like the list. I normally guard my priests with heavy rather than light clavary, since I don't want him to end up in combat.

huitzilopochtli
17-04-2007, 09:44
i love to give my heirophant the cloak of the dunes to just run away from anyone who comes too close. but i'm not using the heavy cavelry anymore. i decided to turn them into light cav for more manouverability. plus it gave me something to do when i had nothing to paint. lol!

Hazhumie
17-04-2007, 13:00
anyway... with the models i have i was considering this idea.
liche high priest on foot, (with the cloak of the dunes)
tomb prince
liche priest on horse
liche priest on casket

skels 24 bow
skels 24 hand weapon/shield
chariot 3
heavy cavelry 5

ushabti 3
tomb scorpion 1

my plan would be to try and take out enemy wizards with magic/arrowfire (always hitting on 5s helps) and dominating in the magic phase, allowing the enemy to come to me before hitting the centre units with a block of skels, and flanking with the cavelry and chariots on either side. The ushabti and scorpion would serve as protectors, blocking anything that gets in the way of the plan.

If you have the extra bowmen models to raise, you may want to split the block into two units of 12. Then you could add on. The tomb scorpion is best served as a mage/war machine hunter, in the open it will probably get hosed by either shooting or a hitty fast cav unit. I do not field less than four ushabti, they seem to attract missile fire faster than I can heal them.

Getz
17-04-2007, 13:15
How does this sound for 2300 points (the point value used in my club WHFB tournaments)

TP with Spear of Antarhak and Shield of Ptah
LP with Cloak of the Dunes and dispel Scroll (Heirophant)
LP on Horse with Heiratic Jar
LP with Dispel Scroll

20 Skeleton Archers

20 Skeleton Archers

30 Skeletons with Spears and Shields

8 Light Horsemen

8 Light Horsemen

24 Tomb Guard with Banner of Undying Legion (TP goes here...)

3 Ushabti

3 Ushabti

Screaming Skull Catapult

Add standards, musicians and champions to taste.

It's a bit rough an ready at the moment (probably a bit over 2300 once you throw in all the toys), but you get the basic idea...

The theory is a strong defensive force backed up by some decent shooting and the Horsemen for harrassment and protecting the flanks...

huitzilopochtli
17-04-2007, 13:16
If you have the extra bowmen models to raise...

raising bowmen? i thought you could only bring back models that had been killed, and not add to an existing unit? have the rules changed?

and normally i would be more wary of takeing ushibti, but my friend plays VCs and has no missile fire, and i want to add a bit of strength to my foot troops.

i have a different list for fighting dwarves that i'll (hopefully) get to use today, and i'll see how it plays out... in it i think is;

LHP cloak of dunes
TP chariot
LP horse
LP casket

24 bowmen
24 warriors
8 light horses
4 chariots

tomb scorpion

i hope to simply overpower them in the magic phase, (he'll have to hold back a good few DDs to keep the casket at bay, i dont think he'll take the chance of just letting it work, even with dwarves high ld.)

Tate
17-04-2007, 18:09
check out the invisionfree khemri forum (google search it)

they really helped me when I started TK

I have too many comments to post here. . .

Esco Thomson
17-04-2007, 18:44
raising bowmen? i thought you could only bring back models that had been killed, and not add to an existing unit? have the rules changed?

and normally i would be more wary of takeing ushibti, but my friend plays VCs and has no missile fire, and i want to add a bit of strength to my foot troops.

i have a different list for fighting dwarves that i'll (hopefully) get to use today, and i'll see how it plays out... in it i think is;

LHP cloak of dunes
TP chariot
LP horse
LP casket

24 bowmen
24 warriors
8 light horses
4 chariots

tomb scorpion

i hope to simply overpower them in the magic phase, (he'll have to hold back a good few DDs to keep the casket at bay, i dont think he'll take the chance of just letting it work, even with dwarves high ld.)

Correct, you can not raise bowmen, only heal everything in the list up to its full number of models/wounds.

I wouldn't take the casket at much below 2500 points at all. It's a huge points sink and a liability.

Morph
17-04-2007, 22:21
Are you sure you can't buy that catapult? So many games I've won by firing one twice a turn with magic.