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Dodgy Ed
20-04-2007, 13:12
Ok, so the situation is that my local store has been running a campaign for a while now and its moved in to the end game, and I have a challenge for next week. I need to come up with 6000 or 7000 to take on an elven alliance (2 WE and 1 HE) now normally this wouldn't be a problem but the campaign is rather limiting. Due to selection criteria, only two characters (one of whom has to be a runesmith) can be taken and only two special and two rare choices are allowed per army. So this leaves me facing a rather tricky situation (I guess it wasn't called an underdog game for nothing:rolleyes: )

So I come to you Warseer, suggest me an army. models shouldn't be an issue so for now you have carte blanche on ideas (I have some of my own but I want to hear yours before I post)

blurred
20-04-2007, 13:18
Are the elves allowed to take two characters per army or just two?

How 'bout a huge number of quarrelers and thunderers, two organ guns and two flame cannons? The organ guns take care of those annoying skirmishing welves and flame cannons to deal with forest spirits. My suggestion for characters is two runesmiths with spellbreakers to stop hostile magic.

Good luck. Report the outcome. :)

EDIT: Oh. Organ guns and flame cannons are probably both rare. Tricky situation indeed.

Dodgy Ed
20-04-2007, 14:25
The elves are allowed their full complement of choices per army. oh and I should also mention I'm limited to three war machines as well, on the upside I do have a funky reusable( if I'm lucky) dispell scroll that works even against ultimate force, not great anti magic potential though, specially as I'm fairly certain to be facing several mage lords

Dodgy Ed
20-04-2007, 17:27
Well seeing as there hasn't been much input I thought I'd post my potential list
Characters
Lord
Dwarf Lord
w/ Master Rune of Steel, Master Rune of Spite, Rune of Resistance, Rune of Stone, Great Weapon and Shield Bearers
301

Hero
Runesmith
w/ Great Weapon Shield
76

Units
Core
25 Warriors
w/ shields full command
250

25 Warriors
w/ shields full command
250

25 Warriors
w/ shields full command
250

25 Warriors
w/ shields full command
250

10 Longbeards
w/ Great Weapon, Champion
140

10 Longbeards
w/ Great Weapon, Champion
140

10 Longbeards
w/ Great Weapon, Champion
140

10 Longbeards
w/ Great Weapon, Champion
140

10 Crossbowdwarves
w/ shields Champion, Musician
135

10 Crossbowdwarves
w/ shields Champion, Musician
135

10 Crossbowdwarves
w/ shields Champion, Musician
135

10 Crossbowdwarves
w/ shields Champion, Musician
135

10 Crossbowdwarves
w/ shields Champion, Musician
135

10 Crossbowdwarves
w/ shields Champion, Musician
135

10 Crossbowdwarves
w/ shields Champion, Musician
135

10 Crossbowdwarves
w/ shields Champion, Musician
135

10 Thunderers
w/ shields, Champion, Musician
165

10 Thunderers
w/ shields, Champion, Musician
165

10 Thunderers
w/ shields, Champion, Musician
165

10 Thunderers
w/ shields, Champion, Musician
165

Special
118 (Yes 118:evilgrin::eek: :evilgrin:) Ironbreakers
w/ full command, Rune of Courage
1594

30 Slayers
w/15 Giant slayers standard musician
573
War Machines
Rare
Flame Cannon
140

Flame Cannon
140

Army Total 6124 and somewhere in the region of 400 models

Now I Should explain a few things, the campaign means that I am severly limited on everything; magic items only being allowed a total of four with a value of no more than 175 points as well as the aforementioned issues, I am however 'compensated' by the fact I have acquired territories that give me extra points, hence the additional 125 on the total, anyhow thoughts please, particularly from HE and WE players as to how you'd go about beating this list in a standard 6 turn game on a 6x4 board, and conversely thoughts from everyone on how to improve the list

Belerophon709
20-04-2007, 19:06
You're going to play with 400 models per side on a 6x4 board???

*runs away screaming*

EvC
20-04-2007, 19:11
If you get hit with Conflagration of Doom on your Ironbreakers, then after about half an hour of dice-rolling, you're going to be pretty upset...

Dodgy Ed
20-04-2007, 19:29
Meh it's not going to be that bad, of each d6 they should end up taking one wound on average, if however you mean flames of the phoenix then you have a point (but at least the rest of the army isn't being toasted:p ) although on avg I still won't lose enough for a panic check

EvC
20-04-2007, 19:38
I origininally said FotP, but that stays in play and gets stronger each turn and there's ot much chance that it'll last longer than a turn really...

DesertDirge
20-04-2007, 19:59
Dwarves are good in this situation!

Seriously... is a 7000pt army that hard to come up with?

a tooled up Lord (not much can beat this guy)

tooled up Rune smith.

Core toorps are a no brainer.

I wouldn't waste time on warmachines, unless you want Gyrochopers to hunt. I would make a unit a Hammerers and a unit of miners.

RavenBloodwind
20-04-2007, 20:19
For your characters, does an Anvil count as 'magic item' or is it otherwise restricted by the scenario? If not, having the spare dispel die and a magic effect your opponents can't dispel can be quite handy. Additionally, since you're likely to face potential sodomy-by-magic against those opponents I'd have to suggest the MR of balance on the runesmith.

As to your actual list, the longbeards are really far too small to do much other than act as slingshots wherein they get beaten and run down to provide an overrun. If you're using them simply to allow your warriors to reroll panic checks when the missile troops flee through your line, well, okay...but I don't really like it.

You have 120 missile troops on 20mm bases. While my math skills aren't the best, that still comes to 2.4 meters of troops on 1.85 meter table... Obviously deploying on hills will help this, but only minimally.

118 Ironbreakers seems, well...silly? Unless you have a means to make them unbreakable they remain vulnerable to a host of insults. HE repeater bolt throwers can dig a deep trench in them and if he's not restricted could conceivably bring 8. Multiple flank/rear charges may be an issue as well. Since you're restricted on number of special choices, I'd be more tempted to make a monster-sized unit of slayers instead and keep the iron breakers down in the 30-range.

Flame cannons aren't a bad thought for squishy T3 elves. On a similar note though, the gyrocopters steam cannon can actually make a mess of HE cav.

Your basic tactic here appears to be a 'so many damn units i'll never get flanked' approach. While this is fundamentally true you may take a serious beating from magic, return 30" range missile fire and insanely fast cav.

I think you might really benefit from changing out some of your troops to pick up a unit of rangers and a unit of miners just to get some advanced deployment and potentially harrass his lines.

Dodgy Ed
20-04-2007, 21:27
Cheers RavenBloodwind some useful stuff in there

I would consider an anvil but in it's current incarnation it's just so undwarfen I refuse to use it unless it's in really big games where I need to make up points

I agree with a good deal with what you said however especially the sodomy by magic thing (great turn of phrase BTW) but I don't think I made myself quite clear, everyone has similar restrictions I know none of my opponents have bonus rare or character slots(with the exception of one), so that means one or perhaps two wizards per army I reckon I'll be facing about fourteen levels of magic and with the number of bodies on the field I think I'll just have to suck it up:( ,

As for the silliness of the Ironbreakers, yes it's absolutely silly but there really is very little to counter them and they're only a third of the army:p (not to mention I'm almost at the limit of painted models without them)

I have made a monster size unit of slayers (they're max 30) however if they guard one flank of the Ironbreakers whilst the board edge does the other I think that should cover it.

The Longbeards are there more as a support unit for the large units of warriors (in theory). the warriors take the frontal charge whilst the Longbeards are staggered behind them in a sort of dwarven detachment, as although dwarf warriors are good at taking punishment they really dont have all that much punch in return so GW armed longbeards are there to flank things like treemen and such that are slowly (I hope) munching the warriors and of course there's the re-rolled panic checks thing as well.

The truly glorious thing about dwarves is the crossbows are the same range as Elf bows, so anyone coming in to range is a viable target for me as well and with T4/5+ save they're tough for elves to take down from shooting, as for elf fast cavalry it is indeed obscenely fast but so is it obscenely fragile and pricy (mmmm kebabed elf)

You're half right about my basic tactic, the idea is to try and make it so that any flank charge that might be possible will seem sufficiently unattractive that the opponent will think twice before doing it

I'm hoping my missile fire will be enough to harass his line but I take on board what you say about Rangers unfortunately miners are out because they are a special choice:mad: My concern is they'll end up unsupported and just be easy points for the enemy, any suggestions there Warseer?

@Desert Dirge no a 7K army is not that hard to come up with and I know dwarves are scale well with points unfortunately as you can see from my earlier posts I can't tool up the Runesmith and the Lord can just ask why you'd take hammerers (I could swap the IBs for them if I wanted to) to me they just seem too fragile for their cost.

rexim
20-04-2007, 22:21
i would have kitted the dwarf lord alittle diffrently and taken three scolls on the rune smith. a lord with MR of kragg the grimm and then 2 runes of extra A makes him really killy. and with shildberers and rune of stone and the rune of re-roll failed armour saves you get a character that survievs the most. I would make a 30 block of crossbows-rangers to hunt dragons and tree men with :P. that would take alot of you points so you can drop some of that ironbreakers.

The problem with your thinking of longbeards is that you have to be in the side with the longbeards, you dont have the great rule to always be in the flank.

Dodgy Ed
20-04-2007, 22:44
Normally I would kit my lord out differently but with multiple Treemen running around an him being my only LD10 I really need him to survive, killyness is a bit of a secondary concern.

I know I don't have the counter charge rule but even so I can still make a charge in my own turn assuming the warriors hold -as they should do nine time out of ten it's not easy killing 5+ dwarves in a turn, even for treemen and dryads

NakedFisherman
21-04-2007, 01:20
Use Hammerers instead of Ironbreakers.

LightBulb4631
21-04-2007, 03:57
wow thats alot of models. Im worried that with so many guys that all of those quarrelers and thunderers wont be able to shoot due to the line of sight rule

EvC
21-04-2007, 12:51
Playing on a regular gaming table sounds insane! But to cut down on the frontage of many of your units, you could consolidate a few of the Crossbowmen units into 20-Dwarf units; reason being is you can expect to face maybe three Treemen and 1-2 Dragons, so with all those large targets all the back ranks can still shoot.


I would consider an anvil but in it's current incarnation it's just so undwarfen I refuse to use it unless it's in really big games where I need to make up points

Man I'd love to see what counts as a "really big game" for you!

Dodgy Ed
21-04-2007, 18:11
You're probably right about consolidating the crossbowmen, but I find small units give a lot more tactical flexibility, (we shall see I guess)

Hmmm the biggest game I've fought recently was 27K dwarfs vs everything else people could bring documented here http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48756

So should I take the camera and do a bat rep for Tuesdays game as well?

EvC
22-04-2007, 13:55
I don't think anyone would be opposed to that ;)