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Belerophon709
22-04-2007, 01:02
Hey all!

This situation came up at the start of a game between 2 of my friends that I was watching with a bowl of popcorn in one hand and a be... erm... can of soda in the other. They started arguing from the get go and suddenly both turned at me for an answer and I reckon I looked like a huge question mark...

The reason for all this is the deployment rules as described in the BfSP RB.

It says:

*Taking turns the players setup units, one at a time. (not a direct quote)

*All the war machines in an army are deployed at the same time, though they can be deployed in different parts of the deployment zone (direct quote)

*Deploy characters, all at once (not a direct quote)


Now, they're listed like that, one after another.
Friend A claimed that all "regular" units must be setup first, then all warmachines at once, then all characters at once.
Friend B claimed that warmachines can be setup at any time prior to the characters, as long as they are all set up at once.

I usually play by the "Friend B" option, but given the way it's presented I can see where confusion might arise and I started to doubt myself (actually told them to agree or roll a die).

So I turn to you WarSeer for an arbitration on the matter.

Cheers,

Bele

Masque
22-04-2007, 02:33
My belief is that Friend B is correct. For Friend A to be correct the rule concerning the deployment of warmachines would need to include something like 'then', 'next', or 'after that'.

larabic
22-04-2007, 03:02
Friend B sounds like...uh..no wait hes right....

Palatine Katinka
22-04-2007, 04:57
As I see it, you can deploy your units in any order with warmachines being deployed, effectively, as one unit. Characters (all of them at once) are stated as being the last unit you deploy while warmachines are not stated to be second-last or after other units etc.

Vattendroppe
22-04-2007, 09:50
I'd go with friend B, that's always how we've played here. I think with the exact wording it is clear that warmachines can be set up anytime whilst characters must be placed last. But I'm not sure.

T10
22-04-2007, 11:44
Note that Playing the Game is a standard scenario as indicated in the start of the chapter. Expect deployment rules to vary between one scenario and the next.

I'm not going to quote the entire relevant section, but I see where the confusion is coming from. The first three bullet-points describe how players take turns deploying units. Note that it does not distinguish between types of units (see p.7).

The final three bullet-points describe how particular units, or units with the Scouts special rule are deployed. The descriptions seems to support the idea that this establishes a sequence: Warmachines are noted first, then characters with a "deploy last" clause and finally Scouts with a "deploy even laster!" clause.

Anyways.

Only the character's entry make specific mention of when in the deployment sequence they are to be deployed: "The characters in an army are all deployed as the last unit the player deploys."

Warmachines lack this clause and should be read as an exception to the normal deployment rules with regards to "how" and not "when".

-T10

DeathlessDraich
22-04-2007, 12:59
Some additional considerations:

1) Armies with Tunnellers always count as finishing deployment last since their markers are placed after Scouts.

2) For deployment purposes, the character 'stuck' to a Warmachine e.g. Casket or Anvil is treated as a character? - Seems the common way of playing this but I'm not sure whether the rules cover this situation.

3) Deployment in a building - the fair method would be only if the whole building is within the deployment zone

Vattendroppe
22-04-2007, 13:02
2) For deployment purposes, the character 'stuck' to a Warmachine e.g. Casket or Anvil is treated as a character? - Seems the common way of playing this but I'm not sure whether the rules cover this situation.

That's a tricky one... Maybe you're supposed to place the anvil/casket/whatever with the warmachines and then place tha character belonging to it in the character placement? (IE it's practically as a warmachine)

On the other hand they're kind of upgrades to characters, but at the same time not. Tricky one indeed.

Tutore
22-04-2007, 14:03
Warmachines may be put at any time on the table, even as first things.

I've always played, to answer Draich, that characters, regardless if mounted or not, if on chariot or not, are always deployed after all other units, except for scouts.

vilo
22-04-2007, 21:54
anvil, casket, screaming bell act like warmachines but are in affect add ons for the lord like a dragon or horse so will be deployed with characters.

deployment in buildings can only be done if the building is fully in your deployment zone as it says the unit fills up the building.

and a marker isn't a unit so doesn't count for setting up purposes

WLBjork
22-04-2007, 23:52
Check the actual wording on those. I know that the Anvil rules state that it is a warmachine for gaming purposes, thus would be deployed before the characters.

Palatine Katinka
23-04-2007, 02:25
I believe that the Screaming Bell is a Chariot, not a Warmachine.

Azoth
24-04-2007, 04:06
Interesting

lparigi34
24-04-2007, 04:57
Way off topic...


Interesting
How comes you can post that? :confused:

Not that I personally mind, it is just that I tried to make comments like this before and I keep getting the "message too short" thing :wtf:

vilo
24-04-2007, 10:16
was using the screaming bell as an example of an item bought as an upgrade for a character.

just read through the rules for a dwarf anvil and it does state that it is a warmachine, and so i suppose it must be set up before characters are deployed.