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RavenMorpheus
22-04-2007, 20:57
Hi there

I've been playing the same guys for years now and just lately when we've been using the Gamma rules (taking that off the top of me head, think that's the second rules option) and missions that have Victory points are ending in a draw when we use 1500pt armies, no actually not even that its when we play with larger armies as well.

And yet there are always significant casualties - more on one side than the other usually.

It seems to me that you have to decimate the opponents army to get a result other that a draw - Is this because we're just evenly matched or because the victory points system is slightly flawed?

Karhedron
22-04-2007, 21:23
More than likely it is because one side is paying more attention to killing the enemy than to the victory conditions. It is all very well killing most of the enemy but if he still has a handful of scoring units on objectives at the end of the game it will be very hard to score a win.

I don't think it is a flaw in the system, just remember the victory conditions when you play. Granted a completely dead enemy cannot contest any objectives but if the troops he has left are scoring a lot of points then that is the reason.

Try playing with an eye to the victory conditions from and early point in the game and see if your experiences change.

If all else fails, try mixing things up a bit. Playing Cities of Death scenarios can make for very different games (provided you have enough scenary). Or even go as far as swapping armies and see how it changes your perspective.

Just out of curiosity, what armies do you play? If you both play Marines then that might explain a few things. ;)

RavenMorpheus
22-04-2007, 21:34
Just out of curiosity, what armies do you play? If you both play Marines then that might explain a few things. ;)

Whilst we own a Marine army each, an WIP eldar army and a CSM army we don't always use them, we own between us all the codices so we try to play using as many of the races as possible, just using stand-in models to represent the armies.

So it's not the armies. We do concentrate on the objectives but when using VP's concentrating on the onjectives doesn't seem to do much, the VP's just seem to end up in a draw, probably just an anomaly with our games.

Thenmy
22-04-2007, 22:22
I'll second what Karhedron says. Me and my two regular opponents always play Gamma missions, and you can see my score in the sig. Draws really do become a rarity if you focus on the objectives, though gearing up to utterly crush your foe can win you the game, too.

fwacho
23-04-2007, 09:02
some tiems for kicks my buddies an I will play gamma/omega level games and discount VP's entirely. It is simply get the objective or die trying. you'll find this an incredibly fun way to play. (even if you are getting creamed you can still pull out a win on ocasion)

Carlos
23-04-2007, 09:27
One of my (few) complaints of 4th edition is the usage of Victory Points. In all honest they are a crap way to determine a battle winner. Objectives are much more fun and realistic to fight over instead.

Bunnahabhain
23-04-2007, 16:21
Trouble is, without victory points, it ends up equally distorted as well.

Oh look, it's last turn and, I have my 10 remaining Guardsmen on the objective, and your 30 assault marines are 13" away, I win.

It makes sense if it's some kind of sabotage set-up, ie destroy the planetary defense laser at all costs, but unless you have massive re-enforcements arriving at the start of the next turn, placing undue emphasis on the objective, and too little on killing the enemy feels really silly.

Easy E
23-04-2007, 16:31
One of my (few) complaints of 4th edition is the usage of Victory Points. In all honest they are a crap way to determine a battle winner. Objectives are much more fun and realistic to fight over instead.

That's the way we play in my area. I agree that is more realistic, and it requires a lot less calculation at the end of the game.

However, I find it very common in our games to simply blast at oppoenents squads until they are no longer scoring, and then move onto different units until none of them are scoring at all. How do you get around this issue?