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cinera
23-04-2007, 11:26
ive nearly finished my dark eldar now, and im looking for a new project to take on, and i was going to to the imperial guard... but not the normal cadian as they are overused, being the main guard and all.

so i was thinking about the tallern/tallarn (spelling?) i was on the games workshop website and i was reading about them, i like their fluff, and all though their models arent exactly breath taking i quite like the look of them.

But how do the tallarn actually play? from what i heard they are mobile guerrila fighters, so im guessing my army would include alot of infantry and sentinal squads?

thanks in advance :D

Commissar Vaughn
23-04-2007, 11:42
Id assume they'd be light infantry supported by rough riders and sentinals. Also quite experienced troops so I doubt they'd include conscripts. They also pack a higher than normal number of preachers and chaplains etc so you might want to add them in.
IIRC they also use mechanised forces a lot, but using stripped down chimeras, with less armour so they can go faster!

Axel
23-04-2007, 11:57
Note that ForgeWorld also has released special and heavy weapons for Tallarns - more expensive, but worth every dime...

Darkhorse
23-04-2007, 12:04
The codex doctrines for Tallarns are;
Priests,
Hardened Fighters,
Rough Rider Squadrons,
Light Infantry,
Sharp Shooters.

The Commissar Cain Novels depict them as religious *coughMuslimcough* and the doctrines seem to follow the Lawrence of Arabia stereotype. Obviously Light Infantry and Mechanised are incompatable, but there's nothing the stop you choosing your own doctrines.
Priests make them rather aggressive and CC orientated for an IG army, this is reinforced with Hardened Fighters and Rough Riders. Light Infantry means they can infiltrate and pass quicker through terrain.
It also gives them the option for a lot of snipers, being Guard I'm not sure how effective these would be in CC, probably not something your opponent would expect but that still doesn't make it a brilliant idea.
You can't take carapace armour either so terrain is going to be all important.
Rough Riders can be fun but they would have to be massed if you wanted to make that the thrust of your attack.

jubilex
23-04-2007, 12:12
First up, cinera, congratulations for doing dark eldar.
I think you're right in choosing the guard, one extreme to the other it seems. :) Having just come from the "I hate historical armies" thread, how about this.
I saw an army a while back basesd on the LRDG (long range desert group). Forgive me if you already know, but they were a motorised "commando" type unit that specialised in behind enemy lines guerilla warfare. Shooting up airstrips and the like. I think that's what gw had in mind for them. I have some tallarns, but they are my traitors, all in black, they look a bit like ninja's. :confused:

cinera
23-04-2007, 12:12
so for a starting army im thinking of:

2 tallarn officers
10 tallarn warriors (rocket and plasma gun)
10 tallarn warriors (rocket and plasma gun)
3 forgeworld tallarn sentinels
3 base forgeworld mortar team

that way ive got good anti vehicle with the sentinels, my officers would lead the warriors and hunker down in some ruins, and my mortars can pile on pressure.

im not that crazy about spending 20 for 10 models, when the cadian is 18 for 20...

salty
23-04-2007, 12:13
Tallarn, IIRC, was once a verdant world, utterly ravaged by the largest tank battle in the History of the Imperium during the Horus Heresy (Imperium vs Iron Warriors I believe). Its people are hardy, living in what is now basically a desert, and reliant on things such as moisture traps to survive. As such, they are a very characterful army indeed.

HOWEVER - how much are you planning on spending on this army? The only non-metal Tallarn figures GW makes are the FW resin Heavy Weapon teams as mentioned. Further to that point, I dont believe GW makes them in boxed units either. So you are going to be paying around 5-6 (or $10-$12 US) for perhaps 3 Tallarn Guardsmen. Multiply that by, lets say, forty men for the army, and you are going to be paying 65 purely for the basic infantry of your force. Add to that metal or resin rough riders, metal preachers etc and you are looking at an expensive army.

If you are good with greenstuff, I would suggest converting Cadian or Catachan IG into Tallarn IG.

Salty :)

cinera
23-04-2007, 12:18
no im not good with green stuff, but im planning this to be a slow long term thing, and im not going to rush and speed paint this army because i want it to be a long term project which when it is done will hopfully be my best painted army.

this is mainly because when i have an army infront of me, i speed paint it so i can play with it quicker, if i dont have it i cant use them which means i cant speed paint them :D

cunning if i do say so myself :p

Ive also decided i dont want it to be a very large army either, probably only 1000 points when its finished.

sigur
23-04-2007, 13:45
Huge kudos for not going for those Cadians. With Tallarns you will have a very characterful force and some kids might even ask you "what's that?".

First thing I'd suggest is getting your Tallarn stuff (except for the FW bits) from ebay. GW charges enormous prices for the "classic" ranges. Do you have the codex yet? Your list of miniatures you thought of for starters doesn't look like it.;)

Well, I'm sure you'll have fun with this army.

cinera
23-04-2007, 14:00
no i dont yet have the codex, but ive got sevral fantasy dwarf box's that i havnt opened yet, so im hopfully going to get them refunded and swap them in for a codex and some other bits and such...

and i was looking on ebay an hour ago, but all i found were pro painted cheap squads and single soldiers. im not going to buy a bunch of single soldiers, because of the PP it will cost alot more, and i dont want to buy pro painted models because i want it to be my project, not someone elses...

sigur
23-04-2007, 14:05
1.) from the ebay-dictionary: "pro-painted" = dipped into a can of colour and dumped into a puddle of mud. Seriously, buy those minis if they aren't too expensive, strip them (see the sticky in M,P&T for details about stripping paint off miniatures) and repaint them yourself. I got about 100 painted Valhallans some years ago and stripped them all which was quite a pain in the ..fingers but since you'll do your project on a squad-by-squad basis, it should be okay.

2.) Without the codex, you shouldn't get many models really. I mean, you can buy as many guardsmen as you like because you'll need them but don't go much further than that. You'll be surprised to see that 10 guardsmen with heavy weapon and special weapon aren't a Troops choice and that three weapon teams with mortars aren't a support choice.;) (in fact, 2-5 infantry squads plus command squad are a Troops choice for example)

cinera
23-04-2007, 14:51
ahh well i didnt know that... but for the 400 point games it should be alright, because you dont need to abide by the "core choice" of a hq and two troops.

yea i will probably get some of ebay, but i hate to bid :D ill get my mum to do it for me, shes a pro and bidding lol

ancient_conflict
23-04-2007, 18:00
a big tip with guard is that they require a minimum of 40 men plus a chimera (2 Command Squads (1 as HQ 1 in platoon) 3 squads (2 in platoon 1 in chimera) or get rid of the Chimera and add another HQ and squad so thats 55 men in total

also from a fluf point of view it might be an idea to design what a full company is and you can always vary colour schemes with them

cinera
23-04-2007, 18:15
well i havnt made any decisions yet, but im probably going to get the codex, the blister of two officers and a box of 10 tallarn soldiers to start of with

Commissar Rowe
23-04-2007, 18:39
It also gives them the option for a lot of snipers, being Guard I'm not sure how effective these would be in CC, probably not something your opponent would expect but that still doesn't make it a brilliant idea.

You can use the snipers to pin down non-engaged enemy units while your Rough Riders and CCW units wail into the others. This way you can give your guard a little more time to rack up numbers.

sigur
23-04-2007, 18:50
Well, yeah, sure. I wouldn't rely on pinning or make it part of your tactics (army list) though. Sniper rifles are great where they belong: Ratling squads. If you're feeling fancy, also put them into special weapons squads (I prefer not to) but Light Infantry squads have other purposes than dragging around a Sniper Rifle I think.

@cinera: They're still selling Tallarns in boxes where you live? Again, congratulations.;) Sounds like a good start; just don't rush it.

UncleCrazy
23-04-2007, 18:59
For a CP you will need a min of 2 squads and a officer squad(4 and officer) (25 men=one troop choice), A vet squad (5men) and a 2 sentinals. With gear and other upgrades 400ish

cinera
23-04-2007, 21:23
Alright, i hvae ordered a ten man squad of ebay for a start.
I dont know when they are getting here, but by that time i should hopfully have the guardsmen codex.

Ktotwf
23-04-2007, 21:40
I am trying to start a squad of Mordians, so...yeah...feel lucky you are just doing Tallarn. :mad:

Quin 242
23-04-2007, 22:02
10 men is a small start for Guard :)
Good luck on your endeavor. I was just looking at the Forgeworld models.. you can get some good models with them and then swap them out into your regular Tallarns to get additional poses into your platoons. Use the metals here and there as Heavy weapon crew to mix it up.

NotElite
23-04-2007, 22:16
If I didn't already have a pile of Tallarn laying around I would never have started my new army of them myself. Many of my old models were poorly casted and buying new squads of them is pricing out at around $4-5 per model.

I've had to bit the bullet and settle that my second platoon and/or veterans will be plastics. Hopefully you will have better luck in your collecting, but at these prices (and for this quality) I could probably run down to the local university and hire an freshman art major to sculpt me some.

sigur
23-04-2007, 22:23
I have quite a lot of mid-90ies metal miniatures and I never noticed that they are any worse cast than contemporary miniatures. Probably you can get the miniatures for cheaper if you buy a whole army. The problem is finding a guy who sells a Tallarn army, isn't it?;)

Apart from ebay, have a look at bartertown (http://www.bartertown.org/) when looking for second hand miniatures. Good luck!

Ktotwf
23-04-2007, 22:25
I am curious to know how many figures are usually in the average Imperial Guard regiment?

sigur
23-04-2007, 22:28
Between 500 and 10,000 guardsmen if I remember correctly.

Darkhorse
23-04-2007, 22:49
Heh, fluffwise the above figure is correct... If you figure about 100 pts per squad a 1500 pt army will be about 150 models if you go all infantry.
Tanks; Chimera, again 100 pts a model, Russ/bassy 150 pts, all in usually 100 infantry models usually and 5 tanks.

sigur
23-04-2007, 23:36
Of course. The chap asked for a regiment though so I didn't assume he's talking about a 1500pts IG force.

Ktotwf
24-04-2007, 00:11
When I said Regiment, I meant a force for a 1,500 - 2000 point game. My bad for being unclear.

Barbarossa
24-04-2007, 06:57
It depends on how far you go with doctrines and other goodies. About 150 for a pure horde IG, about 60 (and some tanks) in an elite IG.

Shrapnel
24-04-2007, 16:06
For a 1,500 point army you can have two basilisks, 4 officers, 166 men, 19 of those with meltas.

When i scribbled the list, I thought two things

"I don't know which flank I'm refusing"

and

"Woah. Jelly."

cinera
24-04-2007, 18:51
alright new question, how many soldiers for a 400 point?

sigur
24-04-2007, 19:00
This depends entirely on what you want. For instance, you can get away with around 30 men. All you really need is a Troops choice and since the "1 per Inf.Platoon"-thing is left out for Chimera-mounted squads in Combat Patrols (IIRC) you can limit the number of miniatures.

cinera
24-04-2007, 20:02
well im not sure if this is really 400 points but what something like:

2 officers.
1 platoon with two squads of ten men
ten men with a chimera
3 sentinels
3 heavy weapon teams

that way i still have 30 men and a decent ammount of armour.