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Aun'aart'al
03-08-2005, 18:58
in your opinions, what do you think the Emperor would do, if he had the chance to walk again, and do everything he once could before the Great Betrayal? How would the Imperium react? What might happen?


I await your replies with excitement :D

TheSonOfAbbadon
03-08-2005, 19:01
Well, He'd probably storm the Eye Of Terror after amassing a large amount of grey knights and inquisitorial forces. Then continue the campaign of discovering all the remaining human worlds on the northern rim.

Yorkiebar
03-08-2005, 19:02
Firstly I think he'd go trash the Inquisition for being so evil while he was gone. Then he'd secure all the imperial sectors in the galaxy before leading new crusades to the Eastern fringe. He'd then go awaken the sleeping Primarchs and storm the Eye of terror looking for Russ.

Aun'aart'al
03-08-2005, 19:45
I must say, interesting opinions so far! :D lets get some more in here!

Lostanddamned
03-08-2005, 19:48
He would do what anyone does when they find out how bad things have been since they fell asleep.

Roll over and go back to sleep again.

Lord-Warlock
03-08-2005, 19:54
So some dude sees the big red button on the Throne, decides to push it, and ressurects the Emperor.

Firstly, He'd need to adress the problem of the Astronomican. Considering it worked before He ascended to the Golden Throne, I don't think that would be much of a problem.

Secondly, once this became official the much-dreaded schism between unbelievers and believers would probably occur. Were I Him, I'd take command of the Custodes, bring Mars into the fold (and thus gain the support of the AdMech) and then leave for Cadia. Very publicly I'd purge that world of Chaos, and then seek out Abaddon (not too much of a problem, since he'd probably hunt for the Master of Mankind). Abaddon vs the Emperor would probably end up with a headless spawnified Despoiler, and with all this on tape the Emperor would probably reunite whatever parts of the Imperium were warring.

Then He would probably take the fight to the Nids. The question here is - would any of the Primarchs return? Russ? Mannus (I refuse to believe he's headless)? Khan? Even Guilliman (a spectacular healing would probably be within the boundaries of reason at this point)?

Khaine's Messenger
03-08-2005, 20:09
The setting/Imperium has several options:
1) Civil War mk Lord Only Knows.
2) The Great Consolidation (what did you think he was doing at the beginning of the Horus Heresy anyways? The Great Crusade was nearing its completion...even the Emperor was restricted by the range of the Astronomican to a certain extent, so he might as well just twist all the ties a little tighter and get everything working in the proto-Imperium before pulling a second-phase expansion). After this, he'd do a Great Crusade mk II. Sadly, this alone would probably take quite a while, what with the Imperium beset on all sides by so many foes these days.
3) End of Times.

Really, why do people assume the Emperor would be so upset with the way the Imperium turned out? After all, the current organization was a hybrid of his own ideas and the organizational genius of Roboute Guilliman. He might be a little disappointed with things like the Ministorum (depending on how you believe he formed his opinions), but that would be that, and you can't change a trillion trillion peoples' opinions overnight.

Lord-Warlock
03-08-2005, 20:12
Considering he didn't want to be worshipped, the Ecclesiarchy would get quite the rant methinks...

Xisor
03-08-2005, 20:14
He'd have to act from the shadows for a *long* time. If he were to simply appear and say 'tadaa! I'm back!' then the Imperium would collapse in Civil War. Who'd believe it? He can't possibly travel to all the millions of worlds and convince everyone in person. The Inquisition and the Ecclessiarchy upper echeleons are likely so far apart in their beliefs of serving the Emperor that they have no idea why the Emperor did as he did.

It'd take a long time for him to be able to reveal himself, and even then it'd be difficult.

Xisor

Sojourner
03-08-2005, 20:24
"What the HELL happened? I leave you people for ten millennia...Hey, you! What are you doing here, and who said you could wear that ridiculous costu...oh, so that's the uniform now? It just gets better, doesn't it..."

I just want to see him pummel Abaddon into a pulp and snap Angron in half.

Tom - Heretic
03-08-2005, 20:29
Gah! Get me a ******* coffee and some nurofen this bloody minute!

Lord Setra
03-08-2005, 21:05
Lol Im quite sure he would want a coffee and then he might deal with the inquistion because they just evil gits.

I would then say he would deal with chaos and then nids, but this would result in the Final battle as is described by the Eldar.

Lord-Warlock
03-08-2005, 21:13
"And Custodes Noviciate Maximillian Robertus did press what has since become known as the Great Runic Button of Ressurection, and the Golden Throne did open, and the Emperor did step forth.

And the Emperor did go to His quarters and did remove His armour, so that He might finally scratch and relieve himself.

And the Emperor did step forth into the Senatorum Imperialis, and He did demand of them: 'So what's up?'

And the High Lords did speak to the Emperor of the desperacy of this time, and the Master of the Administratum did praise His coming with the words 'Thank, err, you you're back, Lord, 'cause we're quite frankly screwed here.'

And the Emperor did turn his attention to the blessed Adeptus Ministorum, and he did demand of the Ecclesiarch, 'Didn't I tell you people we need warriors and not priests?!?'

And the Ecclesiarch did ask the Emperor's forgiveness, and pleaded that the Priests of the Imperium are warriors as well. And the Emperor did accept this, but did smack him for his insolence.

And the Emperor did step forth onto the streets of Terra at the head of the blessed Adeptus Custodes, and he did proclaim His return: 'Yo, folks, I'm back!'

And the rampant crowds did swarm towards him, and the Custodes did need to use their funky bolter-halberds to keep their Lord and Master from getting trampled. So great were the devotion of Terra's pilgrim flocks that thousands died. Sucky, eh?

And the Emperor did march to Mars, and meet with the Lords of the Mechanicus. And He did adress them: 'Yo, machine-dudes, I'm awake. And I'm pissed with you.' And He did smack them for not telling everyone of the Great Runic Button of Ressurection. (He did take their Titans, though.)

And the Emperor did go forth to Cadia, and He did confront the vile hordes of the Despoiler. And the Despoiler did step forth from the masses and confronted the Emperor, and he did say: 'You! Err... Aren't you supposed to be all rotten?'

And the Emperor did bring him to his knees with words, proclaiming the Despoiler 'You low-life punk!' and smacking him to death. Thus was the reign of the Despoiler ended, and the Legions of Chaos did flee like the wuzzies they are.

And the Emperor turned his eyes on the swarms of Tyranids. And He did embark upon the Second of the Great Crusades, and He did see the Tyranid swarms, and He did utter the words 'Ay Caramba!'

But the Emperor did smack the Tyranids for their bugginess, and He did lead His armies to victory over the hordes of nasty lil' beasties. And when the last Tyranid was dead, He did meet with the leaders of the eldar who said 'Noob! We got you to kill them for us! Haha!'

And the Emperor did smack them.

And the Emperor did meet with the Ethereals of the Tau, and they did meet him with outrageous claims, and He did proclaim them 'Noobs!' and He did smack their blue behinds. The Kroot and the Demiurg and the Nicassar and the Vespid too.

And the Emperor did retire to Terra, and He did marry a cute lass, and He did not name his son after an archaic god nor make him Warmaster. In fact, when His son did venture that option, the Emperor did smack him."

Brusilov
03-08-2005, 21:27
Let's see about dealing with a few things here:
- I don't see why the Inquisition would be considered so evil, after all He created it as one of his last actions before (or after, it doesn't matter) being entombed in the Golden Throne. So I would expect he knew what would happen when he left people with so much power (let's hope he would have learned his lesson from Horus)
- The Ecclesiarchy: despite all its failings, it's a great factor of unity within the Imperium and the Emperor would recognise that. And you cannot uproot something that has been going strong for over 8,000 years. Thus He would accept it
- The Schism: it's quite clear in my mind as well that His return would not be taken at face value by many people. Thankfully since all the major branches on the Adeptus Terra are, obviously, on Terra, He could lay down the smack fairly easily with the Adeptus Custodes. Personally, I wonder why people think the High Lords are selft-interest, sure they are, but coulnd't they also have the interests of the Imperium at heart. After all the Imperium coulnd't have stood for 10,000 years if its leaders were only greedy and power-hungry bastards. A little showing off of his technological knowhow would put the Mechanicus in his pocket and off we go. You have to remember that people lower down the scale obey, especially in such organisations as the Administratum. The problem would be like potentats lower down the scale, fearing for their power. But then, it's not necessary to make his return known to the whole galaxy. For countless billions, whether the Emperor walks the surface of worlds or is in stasis in the Golden Throne doesn't change a thing
- The End Times, Ragna'ork, Rhana Dandra, you name it: the return of the Emperor is too momentous an event not to be part of so grandious scheme, but also forcing the hand of the Chaos Gods to take the offensive before the Emperor consolidated his power and crushed their servants. Thus we'd be in for a battle to the finish between the Imperium and Chaos.
- The Primarchs: if we're talking about the End Times, then logically the Primarchs must come back for a cataclysmic confrontation (those still alive obviously, so no Horus, no Sanguinius, no Ferrus Manus, no Rogal Dorn....)

But in all honesty, what happens after the Emperor comes back is of no matter to me, what's interesting is how he comes back, under what form and why? No that's much more interesting than what would happen afterwards

Aun'aart'al
03-08-2005, 21:30
lol now wouldnt that be somethin' :p

Brusilov
03-08-2005, 21:39
You great plan Warlock does not include the fate of the Necrons/C'tan, nor that of the Orks, your Emperor still has work to do :p

Aun'aart'al
03-08-2005, 21:44
lol work is never done :rolleyes:

Lord-Warlock
03-08-2005, 21:50
Err, yeah. Addendum:

"And then the C'Tan did arise and they did bring their Necron hosts forth. And the Emperor did go forth to Mars, where the one known as the Dragon had arisen.

And the Emperor did meet the metal monster in open battle, and He did smack it limb from cheesy limb. But it did remanifest on Alpha Centauri, and the Emperor did smack it again - and this time it fled into the local star. And the Emperor did grin cheesily, and He did proclaim 'Alright peeps, didn't we capture some Blackstone thingies from the lowlife punk? Yeah? Well, bring them forth!'. And the Blackstone Fortresses were brought forth, and the Emperor did laugh evilly and order the smacking of the star, C'Tan and all. And there was a boom, and the Dragon was no more.

And the other C'Tan did march forth, but the Emperor did take the Blackstone fortresses and He did smack the cheesy gits.

And the Emperor did finally get peeved about the Orkoid raids, even though they had been mightily culled in the Second Great Crusade. And the Emperor did initiate the Third, and the Fourth, and the Fifth until at last a single Warboss was left. And the Warboss did mock the Emperor: 'Yoo cheesefest!' And the Emperor did smack him, horribly.

And the Emperor did meet with Cypher, of the Fallen Angels, and Cypher did ask the Emperor's Forgiveness. In His mercy the Emperor smacked him only slightly.

And the Emperor did finally retire to Terra, after slaying every alien in the galaxy (save the Jokaero, whose digi-weapons He did fancy). And when He was reminded of the Chaos Gods whom He could not smack, He did say 'Meh', and He did return to that cute lass and the son who needed smacking 'cause he wanted to be Warmaster."

Ar-Earandur
03-08-2005, 21:57
Pure Genius :D

May you forever be showered in cookies.

Tastyfish
04-08-2005, 00:29
The Inquisition would quickly dispose of him in all likelyhood (again), far too dangerous to have him running around.

Gyulkus Chaos Saurus
04-08-2005, 01:09
i doubt the inquisition would kill the emperor, theyres no way they could keep that quiet and the population would be might angry

Xisor
04-08-2005, 01:16
Are you having a laugh? No way they could keep it quiet!? The Emperor would have to 'prove' it. The Inquisition deal with psycho-psykers, 'wannabe reincarnations of the emperor', Avatars of Gods, Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes on a day to day basis at some level, and I cannot imagine they'd be of 'one agreeing voice' should the Emperor return.

Sure they might not stop his return, but it would not be easy!

Xisor

Krusk
04-08-2005, 03:42
The inquisistion whack the emperor? riiiiggghht. They have trouble with alpha plus pyskers. and what is he going to be? he could probably fry any humans brain that came within a hundred miles. Mans a friccking demi god fella.

Muffin Man
04-08-2005, 04:47
Interesting speculation all. But this is what would really happen it eh EMperor came out of this Golden Throne.

"Fetch me my multi-colored pantaloons"
"Summon me my most favored Legion to me... The Rainbow Warriors.
"YOU DID WHAT TO THEM? YOU KNOW THEY'RE MY FAVORITES!"

I'd also imagine he'd be a little miffed about hearing the fates of some of the primarchs.
"Lionel cripped? To who?"
"Roboute wounded? To that wimp?"
"Rogal Dorn... worst death ever!"

Brusilov
04-08-2005, 05:22
The Inquisition would be as divided as the rest of the Imperium. You cannot expect a group so diverse, with so many diverging philosophies, to agree on anything. Amalathians and Thorians may support the Emperor's claim, Monodominants would probably oppose it (but then they're really close-minded).
As to the Radicals, it would vary even more greatly.

This is also why the means through which the Emperor comes back is as important as His actual return. If he is reincarnated in his body, then things would be easier if he reincarnates in the body of another (that of Cypher IMHO).

Very amusing Warlock, I have Monty Python-like images playing out in my head :rolleyes: :D

typhus22
04-08-2005, 06:06
i think there be plenty of greedy inquisitors that would not want to hadn back power to the emperor. once he finds out how they abused his name in order to scare the populace into submission. secondly he tried to heal the wounded primarchs and also find the ones that bailed. then the update on how the nids and necrons are coming and the incursion of chaos from the eye of terror and then comes the crusades. altogether a very active year once he wakes up.

Aun'aart'al
04-08-2005, 06:27
I dont get it.. why hasent the Imperium just simply cloned the Emperor? Horus was cloned, thus Abbandon, right? so why not this guy? have the origonal Emperor make all the shots I suppose, while the clone is just the figure head or something..

Brusilov
04-08-2005, 07:03
It would not work IMHO You may end up with a perfect copy of the Emperor but that matters not. The Emperor is a mere human (remember he was born in Anatolia in roughly 8,000 BC from a normal mother and father), it is his mind that makes him so potent and allows him to live so long. Thus cloning would not work.

Who says Inquisitors would have to hand back power to the Emperor. Even if he is as mighty as legends say, he cannot rule the Imperium by himself. He needs the bureaucracy and the Inquisition and everything else (again I remind people the Emperor himself created the Inquisition), and thus none of the already existing structure would disappear.
As mentioned, the Emperor would probably move to the frontlines where his talents are most needed and leave the High Lords in charge, at least for the time being. Once the Imperium is secure, then reform could begin. Waging a war on two fronts is a sure way to lose on both accounts.

Bruen
04-08-2005, 07:24
I just can't see the High Lords giving up all their power without a fight.

I thik that the first thing he would have to do would be to fight a civil war with elements of the Imperium who either don't believe that he is the true Emperor or reject him for selfish reasons.

Ironically the reincarnation of the Emperor could cause the downfall of the Imperium if it takes its eye off the ball.

Aun'aart'al
04-08-2005, 08:20
well from what I understand, the Eldar have made some sort of prophesy that the Emperor will return and something huge will happen after that. So, you could get the idea that the Emperor comes back, people are all praising and everything, he destroys Chaos, and then theres another Civil war that destroys the Imperium this time (because its larger than before), all because half, if not more of the Imperium, simply just doesnt believe that the guy who claims to be the Emperor is indeed.. The Emperor

Norminator
04-08-2005, 09:09
I think it needs to be remembered that not only the strength and power of the Emperor is bought back, but also his knowledge. He would know how to defeat certain enemies, of all the plots against the Imperium. He would know the secrets of the warp, and, probably most important in the long term, know all the brilliant lost technologies from the DAoT. The Imperium would be virtually unstoppable.

Finally, further Space Marine legions/chapters could be created from his geneseed.

But most worryingly, after 10,000 years without a bath he must really smell...

Bruen
04-08-2005, 09:16
I think it needs to be remembered that not only the strength and power of the Emperor is bought back, but also his knowledge. He would know how to defeat certain enemies, of all the plots against the Imperium. He would know the secrets of the warp, and, probably most important in the long term, know all the brilliant lost technologies from the DAoT. The Imperium would be virtually unstoppable.

Hold on a sec, the Emperor didn't know about Horus, he didn't know that Magnus was loyal etc

He isn't all-knowing so I see no reason why he should know about all the plots etc and why would he know the details of all the lost technology? How many leaders know how to manufacture a gun in enough detail to set up a factory? Not many.

Norminator
04-08-2005, 09:24
But, as a demi-god, he must remember some of the stuff from STC. I'm sure there was a debate about the Emperors technology know-how on the old portent...

Bruen
04-08-2005, 09:39
But, as a demi-god, he must remember some of the stuff from STC. I'm sure there was a debate about the Emperors technology know-how on the old portent...

He probably knows how to use it better than anyone else, but I doubt that he would know how to build it.

Brusilov
04-08-2005, 09:50
The Emperor has extensive technological knowhow. After all we're talking about a man who lived for roughly 40,000 years among normal people, more than enough time to master several sciences (both theoretical and applied) and be a master engineer and technician. You'll have to remember the Emperor impressed the Cult Mechanicus so much with his knowledge of technology that they considered Him as the physical incarnation of the Omnissiah.

On the matter of the High Lords, you'll have to remember the Emperor is one of them, in fact the first among them. The Senatorum Imperialis is composed of 12 High Lords and the Emperor himself (please refer to the Aquila pattern tank tracks for the Land Raider). It is not entirely imposssible the High Lords divine the Emperor's will with the Tarot, especially when the council is tied.
You may think of him as the vice-presidence in the US Senate, a tie breaker.

And honestly, like I mentioned before, the Emperor would be smart enough not to try and reform the Imperium head on as soon as he returned. Emperor or not, you cannot bring down 10,000 years of tradition simply by snapping your fingers.

Bruen
04-08-2005, 11:26
The Emperor has extensive technological knowhow. After all we're talking about a man who lived for roughly 40,000 years among normal people, more than enough time to master several sciences (both theoretical and applied) and be a master engineer and technician. You'll have to remember the Emperor impressed the Cult Mechanicus so much with his knowledge of technology that they considered Him as the physical incarnation of the Omnissiah.

You might be right, but I still think there is a big difference between science, engineering and actaly knowing enough to make an object.

You could impress the Cult Mechanicus by having something like a system admin password for a STC that unlocked new features but it doesn't necessarily mean that he could build one from scratch.

There isn't really enough info to know either way but I find it hard to believe that someone who failed to see Horus coming is some sort of all-knowing god.


On the matter of the High Lords, you'll have to remember the Emperor is one of them, in fact the first among them. The Senatorum Imperialis is composed of 12 High Lords and the Emperor himself (please refer to the Aquila pattern tank tracks for the Land Raider). It is not entirely imposssible the High Lords divine the Emperor's will with the Tarot, especially when the council is tied.

Technically yes, but I am sure that some of them have gotten used to him not being around in any useful way. There have been a number of examples where one of the High Lords has got out of hand so they are not that virtous.

The one that springs to mind was the Age of Apostasy.


And honestly, like I mentioned before, the Emperor would be smart enough not to try and reform the Imperium head on as soon as he returned. Emperor or not, you cannot bring down 10,000 years of tradition simply by snapping your fingers.

I am sure that he would be smart about it but his mere existance could be enough to cause problem IMHO.

Wiseman
04-08-2005, 12:40
he'd probably get something to eat first, go out look at the sites, catch up on the last 10,000 years(which would take him awhile) then lead a crusade to crush the tau, use his uber psychic ability to overpower the hive mind and control the nids before throwing them all into the EoT, send a crusade out to the halo stars, be fairly tired by this time and order in pizza, getting an emperor of mankind discount on it.

McMullet
04-08-2005, 13:35
On the matter of the High Lords, you'll have to remember the Emperor is one of them, in fact the first among them. The Senatorum Imperialis is composed of 12 High Lords and the Emperor himself (please refer to the Aquila pattern tank tracks for the Land Raider). It is not entirely imposssible the High Lords divine the Emperor's will with the Tarot, especially when the council is tied.
You may think of him as the vice-presidence in the US Senate, a tie breaker.

This reminds me of the Stewards of Gondor from LOTR. The Stewards got very used to being in charge, and rejected a claimant to the throne from Arnor even though he was clearly the next in line - they were much happier to stay in charge, thanks very much. Then, of course, Aragorn came along and kinda defeated all their enemies, and healed the last in the line of Stewards so they couldn't really ignore him. I think the High Lords are pretty similar, in that they're quite happy to rule "in the Emperor's name", but wouldn't like the fact that he came back and effectively relegated them to being his deputies. As Douglas Adams said: "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." I doubt the High Lords got where they are by being virtuous, dutiful and pious.

Wiseman
04-08-2005, 13:42
theres alot of sense in that postMcMullet, i agree with most of it, except the part about douglas adams quote, its not relevant in this situation because they arent president;) i think a slight revision is in order to bring it up to date with the 41st Millenia

QwertyMIDX
04-08-2005, 13:51
further Space Marine legions/chapters could be created from his geneseed..

The emperor isn't a Space Marine, and he doesn't have geneseed. Although he does know how to make a Space Marine.

Brusilov
04-08-2005, 14:50
I don't deny the fact that the High Lords would cling to their power and the examples given are good ones (except you could wonder how much Denethor was influenced by the Palanthir and thus Sauron, but that's beside the point).
However, I like to think that despite being human beings (and thus not keen on relishing power), they would also have the Imperium's best interest at heart, and the Emperor's return IMHO is in the Imperium's interest (at least in the long run).
If the Imperium had been ruled by generations of Grog Vandire, it would no longer exist. Then some of the High Lords do look after the Imperium, once in a while...

McMullet
04-08-2005, 15:12
As you quite rightly state, Lords like Vandire would destroy the Imperium, and without the Imperium there would be no Lords - so it's in their best interests to stop things getting too far out of hand. I think the main problem, however, is not so much their desire for power, but the desire to maintain the Status Quo (I'm sure Rick Parfitt & co are all entombed in their own Golden thrones by now, rockin' all over the Imperium, yeah! Er, anyway...). The Imperium and the High Lords are somewhat traditionalist, set in their ways and conservative. Their long term plans are pretty much "carry on as normal", and that definitely doesn't include the Emperor coming along and confusing everything. Imagine the paperwork! "So, you're the Emperor then. Right, if you could fill in these forms, get them signed by X, Y and Z, duplicate them and come back in 4 weeks with acceptable holographic ID and a copy of a recent utility bill, then you'll need to go and see such-and-such, who can make an appointment for you with so-and-so..." I don't think they'd deny the Emperor's right to rule them again, or try and bump him off, but I doubt they'd be happy about it.


theres alot of sense in that postMcMullet, i agree with most of it, except the part about douglas adams quote, its not relevant in this situation because they arent president;) i think a slight revision is in order to bring it up to date with the 41st Millenia
True enough, but I think you can swap the word "President" with "Generic position of authority" without too much difficutly...

Aun'aart'al
04-08-2005, 19:50
ok, the Emperor may not be a Space Marine (technically he is when hes in his armor, but whatever, 'nother discussion), but didnt he create the Primarchs on a base built on the moon underground or something? So I dont think that it would be that difficult for him to do it again, hell I'll bet he could create 10 more Chapters, but like the Grey Knights and Imperial Fists, and send them after the traitors in the Eot, with him in the front seat


but thats just what I think..

Bruen
04-08-2005, 19:56
but didnt he create the Primarchs on a base built on the moon underground or something? So I dont think that it would be that difficult for him to do it again,

Well the Emperor gave orders for the Primarchs to be created but I doubt that he did any of the work himself. How would hae have time? What with running an empire and all?

Psiweapon
04-08-2005, 20:50
The Emperor, in all the lifes he had until he revealed himself, has, with all probability, been: shepherd, student, teacher, barman, leader, blacksmith ("tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor, richman, poorman, beggerman, thief" anyone? He probably has learned (and perhaps forgotten) an assload of jobs, of course including a lot that are of no use nowadays in the imperium. But I do believe that he must know a lot about tech, and even if he doesn't know the bowels of the machines needed to do so, he certainly knows the theory behind creating primarchs.

Muffin Man
05-08-2005, 05:46
I was under the impression that the primarchs are created from his genetic material? Not his geneseed exactly as he doesn't have one, but along the same lines.

Aun'aart'al
05-08-2005, 05:58
wouldnt that be D.N.A. then?

archangels uk
05-08-2005, 08:23
The Emperor, in all the lifes he had until he revealed himself, has, with all probability, been: shepherd, student, teacher, barman, leader, blacksmith ("tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor, richman, poorman, beggerman, thief" anyone? He probably has learned (and perhaps forgotten) an assload of jobs, of course including a lot that are of no use nowadays in the imperium. But I do believe that he must know a lot about tech, and even if he doesn't know the bowels of the machines needed to do so, he certainly knows the theory behind creating primarchs.


Spot on, I think the emperor would go back to what he did before work in the shadows looking at everything and everyone and learning the imperium as it is now, he will then be able to judge everything and change things as he sees fit, he will relise that it wouldnt be wise to just openly say his the emperor, so he will wait until he has regained the trust of those he sees fit (would imagine he working as a assistant to a high lord or something, I know he couldnt just get a job like that but with his abilities it would be easy to gain the respect of a high lord because of everything he knows and what he can do), only when the emperor is ready to reveal himself and take mankind by the neck and kick it into shape will he declare himself as emperor again, like he did all those years ago

Also, with something as important as primarch creation I think he will hold the secrets to it, either he knows how to do it, or he knows where the information is stored which instructs how to do it, he will also know of technolgy that the ad mech have and who probably arent sharing that tech with the imperium, its probably either lost in archives or buried deep under the archives or the admech simply dont want to release the information out, so again its possible for the imperuim to get new weapons that way. I think the emperor will also know a lot of secrets and information lost over thousands of years that he could reveal to help mankind. It is possible that he knows of necrons and possibly tyranids, who knows who long tyranids have been around in the outer rims?, and the 'crons have been around for donkeys years!.

Also, is the emperors mind in a awaken state in the warp?, does he know whats going on, as said its not his body thats strong its his mind, thereby he will know whats been going on since his asscendant anyway

McMullet
05-08-2005, 09:49
That's an interesting thought. Could the Emperor come out of the Golden Throne without anyone noticing? Could he just sneak out one day, wink at the Custodes, tap his nose with side of his finger and say, "you en't seen me - right?"? Presumably, he could rely absolutely on the Custodes to keep the secret, they could put some other dead guy in the Golden Throne in case anyone checks, and he could start doing his thing in the background. Would the Astronomicon still work as long as he was on Earth?

archangels uk
05-08-2005, 09:51
As said before, it worked before so there should be a way to work it again. Astronomicon that is

McMullet
05-08-2005, 10:17
True enough. Would anyone notice though? Would there be a change in the signal or something like that, tipping off the navigators (if noone else) that the Emperor had awoken?

Ruuku
05-08-2005, 17:12
Well the Imperium might start to wonder why the forces of Chaos are attacking more aggressively and more frequently than usual, and I'm pretty sure that every psyker in the galaxy would recognise his return, but seriously, if the Emperor ever returns, it will be in the form of the Star Child.

Aun'aart'al
05-08-2005, 18:33
prophecies can and have been false before Ruuku, so whos to say that the Emperor returning as this "star child" will actually happen? Correct me if Im wrong, but isnt that a prediction of a dying race, desperately trying to survive through whatever means they can? And correct me if Im wrong, but havent they predicted futures, that even the slightest thing they didnt expect through that future out of whack and into the trash?

typhus22
06-08-2005, 00:50
hey werent the grey knights created out of the emperor's own gene seeds? also isnt he basically a husk of a human being much like a mummy right now? cant imagine a peice of beef jerky leading at the head of an army. i figure once he woke up he would be more of a leader then a warrior.

Aun'aart'al
06-08-2005, 01:13
well I figure.. if hes lived the 40000 years or so (give or take a few weeks :rolleyes: ) then Im sure he would still be able to fight, I mean, wouldnt he Need to fight in the warp when he travels? I cant imagine that hes had clear sailing with his mind wandering the warp every now and then.. the odd warp beast here and there, maybe some getting tougher than simply easy

CassiusDraconis
06-08-2005, 02:10
I think the Emperor may be moving among men in secret. I think perhaps he is known to the Imperium as Cypher. It all fits, leading the fallen members of his first legion into redemption. Carrying the broken blade of one of his favorite sons. Cypher is also said to be headed in the general direction of Terra. Perhaps making a list of who's butt is getting kicked when he gets there. Cypher would not be inconsistant with the Star Child either as they may both be the same entity. This would account for the way that Cypher disappears when he would be killed and for the element of discord he brings to the troops he is with. Perhaps some believe they have seen the Emperor and others don't. When fielded with Chaos, the discord could represent some Chaos Marines repenting as he passes through.

DantesInferno
06-08-2005, 04:49
Seems somewhat unlikely to me.

If Cypher was a Fallen Angel, and presumably a pretty senior one to be close enough to Luthor to recover the Lion's sword after the duel, he would have been a member of the Dark Angels Legion since well before the Heresy, when it would have been rather difficult for the Emperor to have a dual identity.

However, a more convincing theory would be to have Cypher as the intended vessel for the Emperor's soul in a possible resurrection. It's not a theory I'm particularly comfortable with, but it does sew up a few odd ends. For instance, Cypher could be moving towards Terra in order to kill the Emperor, freeing his soul from his withered body trapped in the Golden Throne (assuming the Emperor is still alive), thus earning redeption for the Unforgiven. Whether the highest ranks of the Dark Angels would be aware of this is another matter.

Aun'aart'al
06-08-2005, 04:57
For instance, Cypher could be moving towards Terra in order to kill the Emperor, freeing his soul from his withered body trapped in the Golden Throne (assuming the Emperor is still alive), thus earning redeption for the Unforgiven. Whether the highest ranks of the Dark Angels would be aware of this is another matter.



LOOOOOL!!!
*falls off chair laughing*
*whipes a tear from his eye*

*ahem* I'm terribly sorry, that was *chuckle* rude of me *hehe* but, I have one question for you, and that question goes along the lines of thusly;

HOW will (if its true) Cypher manage to get anywhere NEAR the Sol system if he is part of the unforgiven, and even IF, IF IF IF IF he manages to land on Ancient Terra, and gets to the Palace, HOW would he be able to even REACH for his weapon (whatever that may be, say a pistol, I dont know..) and aim it at the Emperor and hope to God that he manages to fire and hit the Emperor instead of a Custody that jumps infront of the projectile (plasma or otherwise)

Khaine's Messenger
06-08-2005, 05:01
Because the Emperor (what's left of him, anyway) most likely wants him to do it. Happened for Draco way back...could work for Cypher as well. When a motley crew of ragtag friends who've traipsed across the galaxy get to have an audience with the Emperor (personally), then you know the Custodes are slipping.... ;)

Brusilov
06-08-2005, 07:18
Simply because Cypher does not intend to kill the Emperor. Someone else will do it for him. Cypher is not the Emperor's killer. He is the Emperor's vessel.

Repeat myself from the Cypher thread I posted on 5 minutes ago


I would argue Cypher is protected not by one warp power, but two: Tzeentch and the Emperor (I would prefer to say Star Child, but then it depends whether you believe such an entity still exists in the fluff). Tzeentch tries to prevent Cypher from reaching Terra, while the Emperor tries to get him closer.
The reforging of the Lion's Sword is IMHO a side issue in the battle. Cypher interests the Star Child greatly because he is a satisfactory host for the rebirth of the Emperor into another physical incarnation (please refer to the Thorian theory of the Inquisition). The whole idea is to get Cypher to Terra and sacrifice the Sensei. Then the Emperor will be strong enough to invest Cypher's body and be reborn, while the Star Child will be born as a full warp power as well.
And then the great battle of the End Times can begin with the Emperor's returned (and the Sword reforged, meaning the DA can free Lion El'jonson from his prison inside the rock).

This little heresy derives from the Cypher entry in the first version of the 3rd Ed. Chaos Codex where a Fallen is interrogated by an DA Chaplain. The Fallen says he's seen Cypher on the Golden Throne as Emperor. And as we know, Fallen were flung through both time and space, so it could be that Fallen has seen the future of 40k with Cypher/Emperor reborn sitting on the Golden Throne.

Aun'aart'al
06-08-2005, 07:29
so let me get this straight.. if the Emperor is reborn into Cyphers' body, is Cypher then killed off? or is Humanity's leader going to have a split personality? :p :eyebrows: :cheese:

DantesInferno
06-08-2005, 08:01
I would expect that in the case of his body being used as the vessel for the Emperor's freed soul, Cypher's own personality would be completely extinguished/subsumed by the Emperor's. Sort of like the way the way the soul of the Young King is completely consumed in the process of awaking an Avatar, or a bit like what happens to victims of Greater Daemon possession, perhaps. I'd imagine if the warp entity doing the possession was significant enough, there wouldn't be much if any trace of the individual left.

Aun'aart'al
06-08-2005, 08:03
haha I'd hate to be Cypher then :p

DantesInferno
06-08-2005, 08:12
It wouldn't exactly be a bad cause to die for, and it wouldn't necessarily be too painful, either. I can think of much more unpleasant ways for Cypher to die, for example being caught by the Dark Angels' Interrogator Chaplains....(assuming they don't know about his secret agenda)

McBain
06-08-2005, 13:12
"And Custodes Noviciate Maximillian Robertus did press what has since become known as the Great Runic Button of Ressurection, and the Golden Throne did open, and the Emperor did step forth.

And the Emperor did go to His quarters and did remove His armour, so that He might finally scratch and relieve himself.

And the Emperor did step forth into the Senatorum Imperialis, and He did demand of them: 'So what's up?'

And the High Lords did speak to the Emperor of the desperacy of this time, and the Master of the Administratum did praise His coming with the words 'Thank, err, you you're back, Lord, 'cause we're quite frankly screwed here.'

And the Emperor did turn his attention to the blessed Adeptus Ministorum, and he did demand of the Ecclesiarch, 'Didn't I tell you people we need warriors and not priests?!?'

And the Ecclesiarch did ask the Emperor's forgiveness, and pleaded that the Priests of the Imperium are warriors as well. And the Emperor did accept this, but did smack him for his insolence.

And the Emperor did step forth onto the streets of Terra at the head of the blessed Adeptus Custodes, and he did proclaim His return: 'Yo, folks, I'm back!'

And the rampant crowds did swarm towards him, and the Custodes did need to use their funky bolter-halberds to keep their Lord and Master from getting trampled. So great were the devotion of Terra's pilgrim flocks that thousands died. Sucky, eh?

And the Emperor did march to Mars, and meet with the Lords of the Mechanicus. And He did adress them: 'Yo, machine-dudes, I'm awake. And I'm pissed with you.' And He did smack them for not telling everyone of the Great Runic Button of Ressurection. (He did take their Titans, though.)

And the Emperor did go forth to Cadia, and He did confront the vile hordes of the Despoiler. And the Despoiler did step forth from the masses and confronted the Emperor, and he did say: 'You! Err... Aren't you supposed to be all rotten?'

And the Emperor did bring him to his knees with words, proclaiming the Despoiler 'You low-life punk!' and smacking him to death. Thus was the reign of the Despoiler ended, and the Legions of Chaos did flee like the wuzzies they are.

And the Emperor turned his eyes on the swarms of Tyranids. And He did embark upon the Second of the Great Crusades, and He did see the Tyranid swarms, and He did utter the words 'Ay Caramba!'

But the Emperor did smack the Tyranids for their bugginess, and He did lead His armies to victory over the hordes of nasty lil' beasties. And when the last Tyranid was dead, He did meet with the leaders of the eldar who said 'Noob! We got you to kill them for us! Haha!'

And the Emperor did smack them.

And the Emperor did meet with the Ethereals of the Tau, and they did meet him with outrageous claims, and He did proclaim them 'Noobs!' and He did smack their blue behinds. The Kroot and the Demiurg and the Nicassar and the Vespid too.

And the Emperor did retire to Terra, and He did marry a cute lass, and He did not name his son after an archaic god nor make him Warmaster. In fact, when His son did venture that option, the Emperor did smack him."

you forgot to add this part.....

And from the many did step forth a priest, the holyman did raise his hand and bow his head, And the mighty Emporer did turnhis holy gaze upon the devout servant and speak, "My child you have something you wish to know?" and the holy emporer did raise upon his armoured gauntlet the priests face so he may look upon his glory, "Yes my holy emporer i do have a question to ask of you it has plagued us to discover the answer for many a millenia i wish to ask you the question that shall provide light upon all the universe", And the Emporer his glory beholden did look down upon the man "You wish to know what happened to my children the primarchs i presume?" The priest looked into the Emporers eyes and saw the truth, "No my lord i wish to know what is your name?" And with this the emporer drew his mighty sword and did smack him.

The Emporer did turn his gaze upon those gathered around him and did proclaim did the mighty imperium not think to look upon the lable in my holy underwear for there it does state my name and for this he smacked the custodions for there failing.

LostTemplar
06-08-2005, 14:54
Brusilov... I have a rather different theory. I do believe Cypher is heading into Terra, carrying the broken sword of the Dark Angels Primarch. In the fabled story, the Emperor will reforge it. But it got me thinking, the emperor must be alive to do it, so, well, he isn't, and it can't happen.

But what if Cypher's goal is to actually use Lion El'Jonhson's sword to slay the Emperor, and free its spirit from the broken husk? What if by doing that, Cypher and the Fallen earn redemption, as they once more allowed the Emperor to rule the stars, but as the Star Child, instead of being bound to the throne?

I am not one to believe that Cypher's intents are "good" or "bad" but I don't also accept the theory of his mind being slowly and utterly consumed by the Emperor. Rather, I believe in the Emperor's spirit, still snared to its shell, guiding Cypher towards Terra, and protecting him when he screws up, to complete his destiny.

I really can't say how Cypher will have the sword reforged. But one think that always come to my mind, is that the Sword, is actually a key of some sort, shattered as it is, and that it'd be enough to "turn off" the throne. I realise it sounds pretty much gibberish, but who knows?

McBain
06-08-2005, 15:11
Perhaps he intends to lay the broken sword at the foot of the throne and then the powers of the emporer will reunite it freeing both cypher and the fallen from there misery, on a slight tangent i know that a number of the Primarchs 'vanished' what if they were either pysically or in spirit linked to the golden throne with the emporer, because he was after all able to find them the first time? this would mean that cyper is returning the lost sword to its rightful owner.


Might be rubbish who knows.... I as it is hinted at there is to be a final battle in which the primarchs and the emporer rise again you woulg assume they would be together?

mmm bacon

Brusilov
06-08-2005, 18:30
LostTemplar, my intention was to reunify the Cypher plot line with the Illuminati/Sensei/Star Child plot line. As to the minute details, Cypher can unplug the Emperor and slay him or whatever himself, but in my mind the important thing is the simultaneous sacrifice of as many Sensei as possible in order for the Star Child to reach the critical mass of warp energy that will allow it to be born, aka reach consciousness (compare the sacrifice of the Sensei, with the Fall of the Eldar, if you will). If those two events do not happen at the same time then the Illuminati have failed and the Emperor truly dies.

Aun'aart'al
06-08-2005, 23:20
Rather, I believe in the Emperor's spirit, still snared to its shell, guiding Cypher towards Terra, and protecting him when he screws up, to complete his destiny.

so your effectively saying that the Emperor is Cyphers' own personal guardian angel? no no, seriously, is that what you were trying to imply? (no sarcasm here)

DantesInferno
06-08-2005, 23:39
so your effectively saying that the Emperor is Cyphers' own personal guardian angel? no no, seriously, is that what you were trying to imply? (no sarcasm here)

Well, yes. After all, something is acting to whisk Cypher out of certain death situations, and he doesn't appear to be dedicated to any of the four Great Chaos Gods, so the Emperor (or perhaps more correctly the Star Child, the Emperor's presence in the warp) is a legitimate contender for the position of Cypher's guardian angel.

Rabid Bunny 666
07-08-2005, 00:52
that is my theory, it makes sense, hte emperor would, i theory, gain a large loyalist force if the fallen were forgiven, which may pave the way for the purging of the galaxy

Aun'aart'al
07-08-2005, 00:57
when you say "big force," approximately how big are we talking about here? I can only think of the Dark Angels, and well.. 1 Chapter, I doubt that would do all that much..

Rabid Bunny 666
07-08-2005, 00:59
considering the fall of the dark angels was during the heresy, splitting the legion in two, the crusade chapters consisted of hundreds of thousands of marines, so some serious manpower IMHO

Drasanil
07-08-2005, 01:00
when you say "big force," approximately how big are we talking about here? I can only think of the Dark Angels, and well.. 1 Chapter, I doubt that would do all that much..

Remember during the Heresy, 1 chapter was pretty darn big, also when you consider that half of them were sucked into the warp and the dark angels still had enough to make three named successors(and probably a few GW doesn't mention). He would gain a rather large number of space marines, a lot of them being a few thousand year old harden veterans.

Aun'aart'al
07-08-2005, 01:08
lol ok ok, so hes got a few more dreadnoughts to play around with :p

/golf claps the Emperor

Brusilov
07-08-2005, 08:16
Personally, to me gaining a few thousands Fallen to his cause is just a side benefit to being able to be reborn for the Emperor. After all you'd have to remember that the Fallen are spread out across time and space and seeing more a two or three at a time is really the exception rather than the rule and then you'll have to remember that some of aforementioned Fallen have actually fallen, they're nothing more than Chaos Marines now (not saying it's the majority but still).

McBain
07-08-2005, 09:43
If you think that the pre heresy chapters could number up to a million marines in some texts and that half of them were sucked into warp you are looking at there originally being aprox 1/2 million marines, now they have captured a few hundred and some would have been killed and some turned to chaos, that is indeed a large number of troops, but they have stepped from the light of the emporer either at the time that caliban blew or since then, now would the imperium welcome them into there armies or would they simply with there "if we dont understand it, it must be bad" theory, purge them from history??

Im sure i remember reading that at the time of the defeat of luther the fallen were aware that they had trespassed against the holy emporer, you would think that they may simply be looking to gain forgiveness and be allowed to die with the honour of there chapter. The Unforgiven as they are called would surely welcome the influx of original gene seed into there chapters as it would be superior to the current stock, but again would the sanctify the use of the seed fearing the betrayler could happen again?

It brings up the same points as the 13th company wolves, if they were to return to the fang would they be welcomed by logan grimnar and the
imperium including the =][=?

on a side note is that bl book about the dark angels any good or not?.

Brusilov
07-08-2005, 10:41
Just a small precision, I would point out that Legions would number no more than a few dozen thousands Marines. The Legion were large but not several millions each. I believe the largest Legions, the Ultramarines, were no more than 25 to 30 thousand Marines.

marineowar
07-08-2005, 10:42
I doubt that the Dark Angels would ever welcome back the Fallen marines to their home. They betrayed us once, they can do it again.
With the Space Wolves though, I don't know if they would be welcomed by Grimnar or not but if they were it wouldn't matter what the Inquisition thought. Not to the Wolves anyway.

McBain
07-08-2005, 11:12
Just a small precision, I would point out that Legions would number no more than a few dozen thousands Marines. The Legion were large but not several millions each. I believe the largest Legions, the Ultramarines, were no more than 25 to 30 thousand Marines.

my apologies i stand corrected over the figure.

Aun'aart'al
07-08-2005, 19:17
yes, correct me if Im wrong, but havent the smurfs made like.. 10 successor chapters on their own already since the Heresy?

Rabid Bunny 666
07-08-2005, 19:21
i think after the HH, they split into something like 22

edit: 23

Aun'aart'al
07-08-2005, 19:24
lol now Thats something to be Proud about! :D Go smurfs!

/golf claps :p

but seriously, is there a site to check out the Chapters they made?

Rabid Bunny 666
07-08-2005, 19:26
not that i know of, but in the marine 'dex, it says that the apocrypha of skaros claims 23 were made, but doesn't name them all, but htere have been more made since the heresy

Brusilov
07-08-2005, 19:57
In the current days of 40k, the Ultramarines gene-seed account for 60% of all Chapters. It's a snowball effect, the more Chapters you have the more gene-seed you give to the Mechanicus and the more they make chapters out of it and so on... You'll also have to remember that the Ultramarines suffered only slightly when compared to the other Legions. Not mentioning the Iron Hands, the Salamanders and the Raven Guard who got mauled at Istvaan V, the Blood Angels, the Imperial Fists and the White Scars must have suffered heavy casualty rates on Terra.

archangels uk
10-08-2005, 14:42
I was reading a codex the other day, cant remember what it was! (old age bad memory!), but it said one of the primarchs (turned to choas, cant remember his name!) could argue the merits of certain technolgy with any of the ad mech and enjoyed so, so yes primarchs and the emperor could have knowledge of STC's and older weapons. (It was trying to explain reasons why said primarch may have gone to choas.)

charlie_c67
10-08-2005, 15:47
Probably Perturabo then. Though Ferrous Manus might have been able to as well.

Sir_Lunchalot
10-08-2005, 18:30
What's all this about Star Child? can someone please tell me what it is, and what GW source is used?

Also, how the heck do we know the Emperor was born a normal human, in about 8k BC? :chrome:

TheSonOfAbbadon
10-08-2005, 19:04
it was 9,000 BC, and I have no idea where that's from, but he was born as a normal child, and then a group of psykers sacrificed themselves so that their psychic power would go into the child.

The Star Child is the Emperor's psychic presence [I think] the Inquisition [I think it's the Inquisition, it might be the Illumnati] believe that if they gather all the Emperor's living children [the Sensei, who do not age and are free of all chaos warp influence] and sacrifice them, then the power will revitalise the Emperor. They don't tell the Sensei that, though, and they don't tell the Emperor either.

Lord Setra
10-08-2005, 19:44
With the Illuminati being people who have been possesed by demons, fighting its presence within them they repel it and then they are free of it. Forcing them from there body.

They then become immune to the powers of chaos, and they now look to gather the children of the Emperor together to do what TheSonOfAbbadon has already explained.

I think.

kotetsu
10-08-2005, 20:58
Hold on a sec, the Emperor didn't know about Horus, he didn't know that Magnus was loyal etc

He isn't all-knowing so I see no reason why he should know about all the plots etc and why would he know the details of all the lost technology? How many leaders know how to manufacture a gun in enough detail to set up a factory? Not many.

WRONG.

It's not that the emperor "didn't know" about horus. He loved too much, and was soft on his children. He refused to believe it, even when the evidence was infront of him. It wasn't ignorance, it was self-delusion coupled with the machinations of chaos (why didn't the jedi, with all their perceptive powers, know that palpatine was sith? same principal, the dark side was part of the illusion).

He isn't "all-knowing" in the sense that he knows every single occurance and feels the need to stop it. If the emperor woke up healthy and ready for business, his actions would be based the "big" issues... knowing the old secrets, the key players, the events that cause crashing waves in the tides of the warp. The emperor, as it stands, has a level of consciousness such that he isn't going to need the scribes to fill him in on 10,000 years of trivia, which is what most events barring crusades, the tyranid invasions, etc. amount to.

As for the "How many leaders know how to manufacture a gun in enough detail to set up a factory?" argument, I suppose you could look at it two ways.

Either 1), the emperor's mind is such that he can grasp AND RECALL the most complex technical concepts that have been lost to history, therefore have no trouble reintroducing long-lost tech to Admech, or
2) He doesn't remember, but his latent skills could be used to improve technology where it's needed. Things like "how can we make our ships more lethal" would just be apparent to him, and it would be implemented. Remember, he was regarded as the living embodiment of the machine god. The primarchs, even in sophisticated societies, learned ALL POSSIBLE KNOWLEDGE their respective worlds could teach them in a manner of years.

If he reawoke, he'd probably talk to the chapter masters, gain their approval. The chapter masters have ties to the movers and shakers in the gaurd, and then the sky is the limit. Something tells me exterminating chaos isn't first on his agenda, there are probably other fish to fry that just aren't apparent to mortals in 40k. Maybe make alliances with the Eldar, with the knowledge that they would understand better what his own reawakening entails.

Aun'aart'al
11-08-2005, 01:53
I agree with everything you just said, except for the whole "allying with the Eldar" part. I seriously doubt that the Emperor would make any sort of alliance, or even truce/crease fire with a species he may very well believe to be lower than him

kotetsu
11-08-2005, 02:40
I agree with everything you just said, except for the whole "allying with the Eldar" part. I seriously doubt that the Emperor would make any sort of alliance, or even truce/crease fire with a species he may very well believe to be lower than him

Yeah, but he's had 10,000 years to contemplate the significance of the Eldar's position in the galaxy. I'd see their goals as congruent (if such a thing happened).

Only the emperor would be so enlightened, obviously. The emperor isn't an egomaniac, he just wants his species to survive. The great crusades were to remove threat and gain territory for the betterment of mankind, not just to kill inferior aliens. The rabid hatred of xenos is more of a part of 10,000 years of combat and indoctrination, not because the emperor explicitly said so. Feel free to correct me if fluff dictates!