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ml2sjw
28-04-2007, 12:50
Ok here is a question to get your brain ticking, what should the rules for a tau stealth suit team in space hulk V2 look like? give me your thoughts and i will show you what i have been working on

Gen.Steiner
28-04-2007, 17:11
Er, blips that move around?

Frankly, though, bring 'em on - they're no Terminators and they're no Genestealers either. The Battle-Brothers will have a field day! :p

Vic
28-04-2007, 20:04
Would the termies be able to detect them though, their being stealth? Id think that night time rules would apply up to the last minute (x# squares that sorta thing).

Gen.Steiner
28-04-2007, 20:15
They're stealthy, but not so stealthy that they can move silently in a metal box. ;) Blips are best, I think - you know there's something out there, but what? Is it a stealer, or 50 Tau? :p

2_heads_talking
28-04-2007, 21:01
Question is, whose role would you want to see them take?

Would they be playing the part of the Terminators or the Genestealers? Personally, if it were the 'Stealers then it'd be best to half the values on the blip (rounding up on 1, 3 and 5) as the stealth teams don't have a tendency to run around in the numbers that 'Stealers do.

Bruen
28-04-2007, 21:28
What would be interesting with Tau is fake blips representing decoys or simply false signals.

Brother Solarus
29-04-2007, 03:20
You could even buy additional blips from Litko Aero to represent them.

Sol

ml2sjw
29-04-2007, 10:43
Well the tau are being brought in because i am feeling sorry for some of the younger members of the club who don't play guard, spacemarines, chaos or nids now that we reintroduced it into the clubs gaming repertoire

Tau will be taking the terminators role rather than the OPFOR, in 99% of the cases rules wise i'm thinking

AP 6 to represent the jetpacks and being less encumbered
Pulse cannon 3 dice killing on 6's, sustained fire as normal
Shoot then move action for the hit and run ability.
Stealth field, Cannot be targeted if 12 or more squares away from firer possibly no sustained fire over 8 but that might make them a bit over powered
Close combat -2 on the dice i'm thinking maybe even worse, but it would make them as good in CC as a guardsman or a hybrid so seems about right when you consider improved armour, etc


Fusion blaster is tricky doesn't really fit with other weapons apart from perhaps the conversion beamer of old.

Advanced rules(for the 13+ brigade)

Possible Fancy stealth field rules for use in our favoured death match games(traditionally 3 terminator teams trying to kill each other occasionally with an OPFOR, occasionally with an objective of some sort )

You may convert a stealth suit into 3 blips at the cost of 6 AP (I.e do nothing else that turn). Stealth suit model is replaced with 3 blips, (2 negatives 1 positive) these blips each have 6 AP's and are treated as normal stealer blips in all respects.

Negative blips could represent decoy drone or similar items of tau.

Personally i wouldn't use these rules in a normal game as blips could get rather confusing with two lots of blips

Fire support, adaptation of the seeker missile system and the smart missile system, mounted on a drone, Limited ammo(8 shots ish) Stealth suits can "call" missiles using their enhanced marker lights, Two warhead yields one krak(tau equivilant) one frag(again tau equivalent) which detonates over entire rooms. used in missions where you have to destroy an entire room as well as adding an AoE weapon. Needs some fiddling with to work out kill roles but should be interesting

For the greater good. All suits are equipped with the self destruct peace of wargear, 1ap to activate effect as you would expect.

Edit, Well what do people think

yankeeboy
02-05-2007, 13:01
While I can understand the appeal of playing Spacehulk with Tau minis, there's little reason why Tau would ever actually have to fight genestealers in a spacehulk, fluffwise. The ONLY reason Spacehulk even exists fluffwise, is that typically, the Imperium is obsessed with trying to reclaim lost technology that might be hiding in a hulk, even if it means fighting thousands of genestealers and tupidly sacrificing their first company to do it. :cries: (and even then, most of the time, the Marines have ended up nuking stray hulks rather than risk what they contain)

Tau don't care about recovering lost technology- they invent their own. There's little reason for them to even board the spacehulk to start with. And certainly, if they encountered tyranids aboard it, they would tactically withdraw, head out to their ships, and nuke the hulk.

If you do play, mainly for the fun of having tau guys scurry around the hulk, I don't think you can take advantage of some of the Tau gear. Things like seeker missiles and marker lights really don't help much in a cramped, twisting mess of hallways, scrap, etc. Firewarriors and Stealth Suits would be the order of the day. Maybe some advance scouting from pathfinders, who will most likely live about 5 minutes.

CyberShadow
02-05-2007, 14:53
I am currently working on expansions and alterations to the old Advanced Space Crusade rules, and come across similar problems.

1. OK, so this is not actually a Space Hulk. Perhaps it is an administration building, or over-run Tau mining facility, or a governers palace, or a Tau technology research and development complex which captured Genestealers for examination and then they got out. While it is called Space Hulk, it really doesnt matter if you transplant the game to a different place. I doesnt actually change anything.

2. The issue of the equipment is difficult. I played around with whether to include things like Jump Packs. Generally, I dont think that these would find a use... although in some buildings/craft there are huge open expanses (think Eldar Craftworlds) where this kind of thing functions just like in the open. Seekers are almost certainly out, since they are carried on vehicles and these just wouldnt make it into the confines of a Hulk.

3. To the question in hand. I would simply give the terminators a reduced overwatch capacity and build in additional armour values to represent the Stealths.

Casarez
02-05-2007, 15:12
I am currently working on expansions and alterations to the old Advanced Space Crusade rules, and come across similar problems.

Heh, many people working towards the same goals. :)

Space Hulk can be used to represent battles in hulks against stealers for sure but it can also represent:

1. Boarding actions
2. Fights inside Hives, Command Centers, Craftworlds, etc.

As for equipment for what I am working on I am excluding anything which could not fit down a normal sized corridor. Now jump packs can be used, and there are rules for their use in certain map sections, but are not really needed.

For Tau anything other than FW, Kroot, and drones I am not sure would really fit. Nor do I think you could really balance them out.

ml2sjw
02-05-2007, 18:43
Also I can see numerous reasons for Tau going exploring on a space hulk. they are after all curious little fellows who like to explore this big new universe. Should a space hulk end up in tau space, i don't see why they wouldn't go exploring in it finding stealers. And like in all good sci fi movies would find more than they bargained for. Also as the imperium often boarded hulks to destroy them, or kill the stealers while they hibernated. Because the imperial fleet couldn't get their in time with enough ships, Tau Fleets are much weaker than their imperial counterparts in terms of raw power (in fluff), rember the hero class tau's most powerful warship the hero is only equivalent to a lunar class cruiser...

And even then you have the overrrun research facility outpost etc a la aliens. I have always seen the tau as "innocents" going out exploring finding stuff they can't begin to understand and frequently getting bit in the ****.

Now on the rules front. As tau are always inventing stuff, i Don't see why they wouldn't modify the stealth suit to work in the confines of a hulk. Using vectored thrust etc in a low gravity hulk shouldn't be to hard.

Ps. if you get worried about me modding tau fluff to fit the space hulk universe I really shouldn't tell you about the zombies, or the Predators or the.... Ooops

"Seekers are almost certainly out, since they are carried on vehicles and these just wouldnt make it into the confines of a Hulk." Again I see tau invention a reduced size missile mounted on a drone AI to provide extra hitting power. They already have missiles that don't need LOS mounted on braodside suits so no reason they coulnd't create a version for close confines

Oh and as spacehulk created its own fluff and most of 40k's Not the other way around I don't see why we shouldn't feel free to play with it. After all i prefere the older space marines fluff which forge world are keeping alive. Harden psychopathic killing machines, the best of the best . Not warrior monks

CyberShadow
02-05-2007, 20:27
Again I see tau invention a reduced size missile mounted on a drone AI to provide extra hitting power. They already have missiles that don't need LOS mounted on braodside suits so no reason they coulnd't create a version for close confines

I would really like to see a Seeker/SMS hybrid missile. But, there are not so many advantages of actually using Seekers if you include the other benefits of Markerlights (and I am sure that this is why Markerlights have these 'other uses').

ml2sjw
02-05-2007, 21:30
My thinking was to let suits to "call the missiles" for the cost a single AP gives the tau heavy weapons support without having to carry their own. But they also have to worry about where to leave their support drones, ensuring doors are open etc

A really bad description but hopefully you get the idea