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netpixie
03-05-2007, 11:06
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ctsteel
03-05-2007, 11:30
I've started an IG force to supplement my DH/WH armies, and all I can say is do what you want to do! :)

would you get as much enjoyment out of a tournament-rated, take-on-anyone list, as you would out of a list that you chose yourself and fits the style of play you want (and most importantly, is *fun* to play)

My intended force is centred around rough riders, they are the main reason I am doing the IG army. A basilisk at the rear firing ordnance, mortar squads providing long range support, an armoured fist or two running the flanks, and down the centre of the line, charge the rough riders to meet the enemy as they duck and run from the explosions behind them..... great stuff! (well for me anyway... :))

Commissar Vaughn
03-05-2007, 11:33
Welcome to the Guard!

Dont really use conscripts meself, I like firepower that can shoot straightish and doesnt runaway.

Rough Riders are awesome though! I havnt seen anyone on this site say a bad thing about them, who've you been talking too ? Never leave home without the only 5 man squad in the game that costs 55 pnts and can wipe out a terminator squad in one round of h2h! Bargain I calls it.
I think the main strength of the Guard is its sheer variety, and most people here agree I think. Take a bit of everything and youve always got the right tools for any job, backed up by jack-of-all-trdae infantry and Leman Russ's. Most people probably use a balance of Infantry and armour with a few specialised units around the edges. It seems to work best.

Remeber that the armour is even more varied than the infantry! People may spend more points on armour than infantry but thats not all just Leman Russes. Remember you have access to ForgeWorld too and you do not need your opponents permission! Its the best 50quid you'll ever spend for IA1 and gives you everything from artillery to Recce tanks and Hellhounds to Tankhunters.

What enemy can stand before you now?

asmodan
03-05-2007, 13:26
I most defenately think it's worth it. Everything for vehicles is in there. From the chimera to the stormblade super heavy tank and even the option for flyers. but thats just my two eurocents. I have all four of them and friday I am going to preorder IA V

Commissar Vaughn
03-05-2007, 13:28
Well I think it is but I got for Christmas :P
Its jam packed with good stuff and is definatly not a glorified catalogue!
Rules for dozens of tanks, flyers and super heavies, background schematics, tactics, unit history and formations and how they are organised plus an army list and special charachters.
I dont realy know what youd have as RT standard but I would rekon its closer to it than anything else you can buy in GW.

Ko Improbable
03-05-2007, 15:43
Advice from someone who has been playing them for ages:
1.) Good rule of thumb is 1 infantry or Rough Rider model for every 15 points you have to spend on your army, unless you're going to do Mechanized Infantry. Guard are strong in numbers, and no matter how many cool doctrines you buy for them, they still tend to die as fast as doctrineless Guardsmen, so you need to have enough to last you through the battle.
2.) If you decide to take Doctrines, don't go overboard on Doctrines that cost points. The lure of elite guardsmen is bait for a tactical trap. You'll jack up the price of your Guardsmen without enough of a benefit to make it worthwhile. More Guardsmen > Better Guardsmen.
3.) Don't go overboard on other upgrades, neither for your troops nor your tanks. Guns are excluded, as more firepower is always a benefit.
4.) Feel free to ignore any of the previous bits of advice if they would conflict with having fun with the army.
5.) If you take heavy weapon squads in your Command Platoon, don't forget to leave cover positions for them as you deploy. I have bad memory, so I tend to struggle with this, myself. Taking Heavy Weapon Platoons, of course, will help make this easier.
6.) Concentrate your fire, when you can. Lasguns can be surprisingly effective in numbers.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
03-05-2007, 15:49
My advice is to watch out for duff advice in this forum ("a squad of mortars will serve you well!").

I'd say you don't really need forgeworld vehicles, there is nothing you can get from forgeworld that matches the leman russ battle tank in my opinion, (unless it's a LRBT). It's a cheapish front AV-14 tank with a pie plate and lots of heavy bolters, stick with the real deal.

the1stpip
03-05-2007, 16:00
Go with Rough Riders, my army (when I finish it) will have two squads of six.

I don't bother with chimeras and mech infantry, go with either white shields or standard infantry. You get a lot for your points.

I find that while doctrines are nice, don't worry too much about them. I only take them for drop troops (for my vets), veterans (no 0-1) and Close Order Drill, and theb last one was only cos I got a spare slot. Don't use the ones that cost to upgrade (except possibly carapace armour).

sigur
03-05-2007, 16:03
I have to agree with everything Ko Improbable said, especially point 4. Asking on several boards for advice on how to play IG will give you an idea of how it works but never think of this as a dogma. Playing IG can be boring and frustrating after some time, given you're playing a boring list so give fun and theme the upper hand. (I don't believe that this is proper english but I hope you get the point)

On the topic of FW, shutupSHUTUP!!! has a point. The rules for FW models are deliberately "less competetive" than the ones in the codices because getting to field a cool, different miniature is an asset for itself. You don't need them and there are people who won't let you use them.




I've read posts giving rough riders a lot of abuse. Why? They're men on horses with exploding sticks, fighting aliens with lasers, can you get any cooler?

And this remark makes you worth playing IG.;)

On the topic of doctrines: Just use them to theme your army. Iron Discipline, Close Order Drill and eventually Grenadiers may come in handy but restrict you quite much in terms of troops selection.

Count de Monet
03-05-2007, 16:22
IG are IMO one of the most enjoyable armies. Your proposed army should be fine.

If you want to romp across the tourney circuit, might want to reconsider. But if you'll have fun regardless of outcome, IG can be good to you. Consider them the average joes in a universe of killer monster aliens, superhuman death warriors, unstoppable robots, etc. When a squad dies - it's expected! Geez, Space Marines were shooting them! :p When they do well, it's a great victory - "Wow, it only took 20 of us to take down that Eldar guy - we rock!" :p

Go into it with low expectations, a sense of fun and utter disregard for the life of any single trooper, and you'll make a fine Imperial Guard commander. :D

don_mondo
03-05-2007, 16:24
Troops, Troops, and more Troops!! Tanks are nice but it's the troops that will win you the game. My regular IG army bis Infantry/sentinels, does quite well overall.

One basic rule of thumb is at least a full 10 man IG squad for every 250 points. Good place for IG advice is:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/imperialguard/

Commissar Rowe
03-05-2007, 17:11
Step 1: Get the codex (You've done that bit good)

Step 2a: Get a hat... Not just any hat, either a military surplus officer's cap (eastern bloc ones are best) or a napoleonic era Tricorne
Step 2b: Strut around your house in yuour hat and making grand gestures and saying "Artillery be damned men... Advance..!!!" (and so on)

Step 3: Start collecting your army

Seriously though, I prefer a more troop-oriented force, not just "to be different" but I find that I can apply a lot more tactical flexibility...
Sure you can field several tanks with various loadouts, but for a sinlge troop choice you can field up to 6 heavy weapons, 40+ lasguns etc. in ONE selection...

Oh and Sentinels all the way :evilgrin:

Rightnow
03-05-2007, 17:13
I play an Inquisition IG army and it is a lot of fun. The best part about the guard is the ability to customize the army to your tastes.

IG doesn't do well at tournaments, but that is fine if you don't go to them. Keep in mind too that building a large IG army from scratch can literally take a year or two to finish. In two years a new IG army book will be out and the list will be more competitive. It is the nature of GW to tweak the books to bring them in line with the rest. Right now IG are slightly underpowered so I suspect a minor boost in the next edition.

The Empire in fantasy is a perfect example. They didn't do well at tournaments, but for the most part a fair and balanced army. With the new book they are still balanced, but much more competitive.

don_mondo
03-05-2007, 17:39
IG doesn't do well at tournaments.

Gotta disagree. IG can do quite well at tournaments. I've got a shelf full of RTT trophies and a few top-10 placings in the US GTs that say so..............

ancient_conflict
03-05-2007, 17:45
well i started witha theme ww2 german (note for those that are ingorant of the truth not all the germans (infact the majority) where nazis)

this was mainly done as i had just finished a ww2 german army 28mm scale so i decided to continue it on.

for fluff i designed the world and system and put a nice theme on it all

and then proceded to by up all the steel legion i could find. Sorry

so my advice is start small and work out what you want

Rightnow
03-05-2007, 17:56
Gotta disagree. IG can do quite well at tournaments. I've got a shelf full of RTT trophies and a few top-10 placings in the US GTs that say so..............

That's very impressive. Do you mind posting your list, or at least the general idea?

Bunnahabhain
03-05-2007, 21:05
Welcome to the Guard. You have all sorts of stuff to choose from, at both a tatical and modelling level, which can be customised in all sorts of ways. I'd advise agains choosing a complex conversion for you basic troops, as you will have to do alot of them, but command squads and tanks are a great place to really do something fun.


There are a few general points to consider.

The Guard are one of the less competitive armies for tournaments at the moment, but are fun army to use. You can't outmanouver Eldar, or really out assult anyone but the Tau, but most other options are open to you

They're generally better at higher points values. A proper Guard Army is a mass without number, with an unstoppable mass of armour, artillery that can level cities, and thousands of troops. Although this is a little hard to reperesent on a 40k table, bigger is better. Your fire-power becomes reliable as you're pointing whole platoons at the taget. That many shots cannot fail to hurt.

You are going to need a horde of infantry. How big a horde is up to you but popular sizes include 'lots', 'Erm, not sure, must be a few hundred' and 'I'm never painting another conscript again'. Seriously, at 1500 pts, you're looking at 70-150 infantry , depending on how many elite troops or tanks you have.

And most importantly, if you die, there's always more Guardsmen. You died heroically against the Xeno scum, and have vengence arriving in the form of some serious ordanance.

Ktotwf
03-05-2007, 22:17
Its strange that you guys say that the Guard is underpowered - it has won 8/10 games I have read about or seen.

Blandman
03-05-2007, 22:32
I've read posts giving rough riders a lot of abuse. Why? They're men on horses with exploding sticks, fighting aliens with lasers, can you get any cooler?


Yes, well, people's opinions of them do seem to be very high. I believe it was just one person "bad mouthing" them.

...It might have been me.

>.>

<.<

Still. Welcome to the Guard soldier! Here is your standard issue MkII Flak Armour and regulation Lasgun. Now go get that Demon! What? No. Stop moaning about your gun not working. Just bayonet charge him instead!

(That's the general idea of the army :rolleyes: )

Aundae
03-05-2007, 22:41
Mortars are not to be underestimated. They are situational however. Take for example a Tau gun line. If you have a board with a lot of cover, give a mortar to every unit you have with 3 basilisks. Stick them all behind area terrain and watch how pissed off the other guy gets that he canít even see any of your units. Even if you only kill 1 guy throughout the entire game you would still win. ;) Seriously though, the power behind guard is numbers. Tanks are pretty, but one las cannon shot at them later and they are no longer useful. (My personal experience.) In the case of guard more is always better. In the case of white shields, stick a commissar in with them so that they will not be so keen to run.

GreenDracoBob
04-05-2007, 01:31
The Guard have always appealed to my inner Imperium citizen. Something is just cool about the average guys fighting for a galatic power that really doesn't care for them, but needs them just the same. Unfortunately, I can't really give you any advice or congrats, seeing as I have never played with or against an IG force. But that may change soon enough.

don_mondo
04-05-2007, 11:01
That's very impressive. Do you mind posting your list, or at least the general idea?

Look here for general idea.
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81647
Basically several small platoons with a few suicide squads that deep strike or infiltrate, sentinels, DH Inq and Callidus to mess with my opponents head and provide a couple of tactical extras. No tanks in the current rendition, altho I've used them and done well with them as well, won a small GW Staff tourney at Balt GD a couple years back with a Mech IG list.
And yes, this list is written for the US GTs and would need changes for the UK.

fwacho
04-05-2007, 11:36
I play a list like you are looking for... I minimize doctrines to get more stuff in. Iron discipline for your officers is very useful and reasonably cheap. drop tropps is handy option for some days and hardnedfighters is great for your sentinals.

you need at minimum 3 sentinals for them to be effective. I suggest running 6. mix in 3 or 4 hunter killer missles while you're at it. arm them with multilasers or auto cannons. (las cannons simply miss to much to be useful or worth their points)

I suggest one heavy weapons tema armed wiht las cannons and one with missle launchers for dual roles (you may even consider a heavy bolter sqaud if you play againt Tau, orks, or guard regularly.

Leman russ battle tank is estential.

Basalisk with indirect fire sure comes in handy.

Leman Russ demolishers also hae a certain charm

I suggest at least one chimera for either your command squad, a verteran squad or an armored fist for objective games (sentinals are most help here)

one 10-man squad of deep striking storm troopers is handy or can be split up for small games and allow for more vehicles. the targeters come in handy too.

I run my command squads with Vsrg medic with storm bolter, 3 gernade launchers and officer with iron D and storm bolter. ( or a plasma troop with storm bolter medic) These make for a very mobile unti with long range that keeps them away form assaulters.
Don't give in to the temptation to put carapace armor on your men. remember the heavy bolters out their and all the powerweapons and anti-MEQ.

swamp_slug
04-05-2007, 14:49
Welcome to the Guard, the more the merrier.
I find that IG are all cool. Average Joes taking on giant beast, warp-spawned monsters and super-human warriors. What could be cooler?
We have the highest ratio of heavy weapons of any army and are just as capable of taking down a Land Raider as we are at killing Gaunts.

This has become my mantra: It's your army, play it however you want!

Myself, I run 2 tanks (Leman Russ and Hellhound), 2 sentinels some grenadiers and a bucket load of infantry, but that's just me.
I've seen tank heavy, rough rider heavy (using all fast slots) or just foot slogging infantry.

If you do use doctrines (which are entirely optional) I would suggest choosing a theme for your army defining who they are and use the doctrines to describe that theme. I can guarantee you will have more fun with a themed list.

The Highlander
04-05-2007, 20:41
Guard are the best army in 40K! They have the greatest opportunity for theme (everything from a high-tek commando force to a horde of ill equipped scum), have the best tank in the game (the LRBT) and can still drown their enemy in men.

One side point, many people will tell you that the guard suck at close combat. They donít. A command squad with hardened fighters, led by an officer with a power fist and backed up by every man that you can get your hands on charging together can be very destructive. I have a long list of Ďhardí units that have been killed by my officers, including chaos lords and Tyranid monstrous creatures!

Bloody12th
04-05-2007, 21:38
Yes, but the problem with fisty command squads is that they are quite fragile if they don't produce a knockout blow on the counter-charge. Best thing to do is use a fist-armed commissar and a power-weaponed officer.

The thing that you need first and foremost is a decent group of heavy weapons. (I've learned that the hard way!) Use them as support squads and that frees up your line troops to jump on top of nasty-but-small units of close-combatty death (or illuminate them to death). After that, add anything you like for coolness or fun.

Desert thunder
04-05-2007, 22:19
I have a leman vanquisher because the people I vs are known to utilise heavy vehicles

Also from the statement above Its easier to keep your command squad and keep them with two or so sentinel because there strong yet they dont cost much points and arm them with a multilaser (Anti infantry) and a lascannon (Anti vehicle):chrome:

Bloody12th
04-05-2007, 23:16
Sentinels can also be extremely annoying to the enemy. One of mine survived about four rounds of rail-gun shooting (I was using it on a pretty bare table to shield my bassie). When it eventually died my opponent failed to blow it up so it was able to continue its job even in death! :angel:

They can also be handy for charging into units you don't want getting near your troops. (Though you could also use ogryns for that....)

guardsmen529
05-05-2007, 03:26
A command squad with hardened fighters, led by an officer with a power fist and backed up by every man that you can get your hands on charging together can be very destructive.

IMO hardened fighters isn't worth the 15 points since it only comes handy against WS 7 opponents (and lets face it if guard are going up against anything with WS 7 there probably gonna get squished :cries: ) and WS 3 enemies, which, judging by there WS aren't really great CC troops and should be destroyed by a combat guard unit anyway

but i dunno, i've never used it myself... maybe it could come in handy... time to tweak my army list methinks...:evilgrin:

<insert manically evil laugh here>

.

ehlijen
05-05-2007, 04:46
Hardened fighters also means that WS 4 doesn't hit you on threes anymore. That's one sixth less hits from most of the games combat units (and in the end one sixth less 5+ save you have to make). It's still not worth 15 pts per unit, but it's a bit more useful than you thought maybe?

RexTalon
05-05-2007, 05:19
I have to be honest. I didn't read everyone's posts. I read your original post, which is all I need to know.

You're now an owner of the most flexable force in the Imperium of Man. I have LOADS of minis for my IG from FW to RT, and I can tell you that the only thing keeping me from fielding an all infantry army is painting time. Not only is it doable, it's also quite scary.

You can field hundreds of soldiers. Lets break that down so it's imaginable. Ten squads + command will cost you 680 pts. That's regular IG with no upgrades. That's 110 men. How much shooting can an equal point value space marine army generate? A Space Marine force with 40 men and a Chaplain can generate 82 shots at close range, and 41 shots at long range. They normally take a couple turns to make it into range, so in a normal game, even if they went unmolested across the table they would just barely generate enough hits to take out your army.

The point here is this, if you have enough infantry, you can do anything. I've taken down the mightiest of opponents just by throwing infantry at them wave after wave after wave.

You'll learn all the tactics as you use them more and more, but don't give up. Keep trying new things and keep painting. You can never have too many infantry.

By the way, I only take two tanks, and no Basalisks. Not because I don't have the models, but because it's great to see the enemies face when you place a 50 man troops selection... twice...

Rexy

Stormhammers
05-05-2007, 05:51
"quantity has a quality all it's own" I always say...I'm a tread-head by trade, so I always have tanks and chimeras in my army, but infatry its the infatry that get the job done. Agreed, as you play more, you develop your own tactics. I like to have my platoons set up in packages. This means 1st squad is my assault squad, vet sgt. and assault weapon, 2ns squad is the assault support squad, melta to help 1st deal with big baddies, and 3rd squad is the support squad, heavy weapon and plasma (I dont like plas, but it has range and power, exactly what I need for their role) I like to be on the offensive, the enemy rarely expects it. I advance, take up a good position, regroup, move on, all the while, tanks are supporting the advance while chimeras plug holes or sometimes charge into the enemy. Remember, the enemy tends to direct fire to vehicles first, you can use that to your advantage.

Desert thunder
05-05-2007, 06:44
A tatic that I find is effective is getting some guys with melta guns and putting them behind a vehicle (not in it) and making sure that the enemy has no line of sight while your men advance on them then when you get into range move your men out from behind the vehicle and open up with all guns blazing:chrome:

guardsmen529
06-05-2007, 06:20
Hardened fighters also means that WS 4 doesn't hit you on threes anymore. That's one sixth less hits from most of the games combat units (and in the end one sixth less 5+ save you have to make). It's still not worth 15 pts per unit, but it's a bit more useful than you thought maybe?

:eek: in my haste 2 badmouth hardened fighters, i completely overlooked that fact... that'd come in real handy against space marines etc...


especially considering the amount of time i spend playing 40k, i feel like such a noob :rolleyes:

Bloody12th
06-05-2007, 11:02
Hardened fighters can be a lot of fun to use if you get bored of the stand and shoot routine. But only give it to command squads. Watch the look of bewilderment on your opponents face as their big nasty units suddenly get much smaller when your off-com tag team hits home.

That said, I would only use it now and again for fun. This is because:

(a) The more points you pour into command squads, the more you hurt the shooty ability of your army. The shooty ability should be first priority.

(b) Your command squads are still toughness 3. If you have them in combat for extended periods, they will die.

(c) Your officers are a leadership anchor to keep your troops in good shape for passing morale checks. If you charge them into combat a lot you risk leaving units outside the 12" leadership range. If you have a vox system, bear in mind that the master vox operator will soon be squished in combat.

Getting stuck into cc is fun, but your command squads are best used hidden in cover and keeping your men held together. Only charge in if the situation is bad. This means that HF is difficult to justify points wise in the long run.