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Fulgrim's Gimp
04-05-2007, 22:46
Greetings all,

I'm certain this has been asked before,but, here goes: can the casket of souls power be destroyed by the above rune.If it can't where does it say it can't in faq form etc. or vice versa ?

Thanks in advance.

DeathlessDraich
05-05-2007, 12:21
Incantations can be destroyed - pg 34 bottom of using Incantations

Shooting hits on the Casket are ignored. In an old FAQ, the Casket was more or less indestructible and even magic could not affect it.
However this has not been included in the latest TK FAQs. Therefore magic will affect it.

Light of Death from the FAQ:
itself is unaffected by 'rebound' spells but "other effects would work as they would against any other magic"

My interpretation is:
other effects that work against magic would work when Light of Death is being cast e.g. magic resistance etc

Spell Destroyer Rune [destroying part of the spell] affects Wizards, I believe and hence cannot affect the Casket's Light of Death which emerges from the Casket and not the priest.
Again this is an interpretation and not explicitly stated in the rules.

Maybe Drain magic might work against LOD.

Fulgrim's Gimp
05-05-2007, 13:11
Cheers.That's basically my reasoning on it,but, I keep getting told that there has been there has been a faq saying that 'destroying dispels' now affect even bound items like the casket. I retort by saying the casket isn't a bound item or a wizard.
Drain magic does work against the casket I believe.

ZomboCom
06-05-2007, 01:02
The Spell Eater Rune will also not work against Tomb Princes and Kings, since they are explicitly not wizards.

intellectawe
06-05-2007, 04:38
Of course spell eater runes work on tomb king 'magic'.

The spell eater will eat up the Casket. Incantations are all just regular 'spells'. That is in the TK book, I forget the page.

Dwarves are the bane of that casket.

Greyfire
06-05-2007, 05:04
This has been discussed before: Khemri/Bound Spells (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60867&highlight=spelleater). It's worth looking at since the Tomb King book hasn't changed (yet) and the thread mentions that Light of Death can be destroyed (for reasons discussed in that thread, some of which have been discussed above).

I don't have anything I can add to support one side or the other since I can argue both sides of the discussion (as I have while thinking this through to try to help out). Maybe 4+ it before the game?

Sorry I can't take a side but I hope that old thread will help out.

-=- Greyfire

StormCrow
06-05-2007, 06:38
Firstly: Why would you bother with a casket against dwarves?

Secondly: My gaming group agreed that the spelleaters would eat the light of death.

Fulgrim's Gimp
06-05-2007, 09:42
Thanks,the problem is though that the previous thread assumes the casket is an incantation or a bound item. I haven't got a casket in my final list, though I was thinking of including it as :
1/ I like the model
2/ I need to draw dispel dice/runes out as my oppnent has eight dispel dice plus runes.Obviously having it eaten will totally nullify this plan.

DeathlessDraich
06-05-2007, 14:19
Dwarves pg 46 Spelleater rune"On a roll of 4+, the spell is lost to the wizard casting it" - the wizard loses the spell.

The Lichepriest does not cast Light of Death, he casts his own 2 incantations and still does if he is with a Casket.

The Casket is responsible for LOD:
"The light of death is released at the end of the TK's magic phase."
- released.
It does not state that LOD is cast by the accompanying Liche Priest.

Lundi
08-05-2007, 22:13
I cannot see a single reason why the Spelleater Rune or other items that can destroy spells, do not affect the Light Of Death from the Casket Of Souls. The Light Of Death is cast like an Incantation, therefore it can be dispelled, or destroyed.

It's pretty much a solid rule in Warhammer - if a spell can be dispelled, it can also be destroyed. The only debatable part is, does the Casket count as a Bound Spell?

druchii
09-05-2007, 04:54
I cannot see a single reason why the Spelleater Rune or other items that can destroy spells, do not affect the Light Of Death from the Casket Of Souls. The Light Of Death is cast like an Incantation, therefore it can be dispelled, or destroyed.

It's pretty much a solid rule in Warhammer - if a spell can be dispelled, it can also be destroyed. The only debatable part is, does the Casket count as a Bound Spell?


While I agree that this is indeed a fuzzy situation, just because something is cast LIKE a bound spell does not mean that it IS a bound spell.

The Spelleater rune specifically states that the opposing wizard loses the spell, unfortunately, the Casket of Souls is not a wizard. Zombocom is also correct in stating that Tomb Kings and Princes will not lose their "My Will Be Done!" incantations, since they are indeed not wizards.

While the Light of Death and "My Will Be Done!" are CAST LIKE Incantations, they are NOT Incantations! While Incantations CAN be gobbled by the Spelleater rune, the Light of Death and "My Will Be Done!" things(I say things because they're not really spells, or Incantations, they just...are)cannot.

d

exsulis
11-05-2007, 05:25
IIRC in the BRB items like the spell eater can destroy bound items. Light of Death is bound to the casket. "Light of Death," and "My will be done" are spells so they can be dispelled IE magic. The only reason the spell eater doesn't affect princes, and kings is that they aren't mages.

WLBjork
11-05-2007, 13:40
Nice try, but it comes down to wording again.


Magic items that dispel and destroy spells work as normal against spells cast from a bound spell.

So, the Spelleater Rune can dispel the spell but as the target to lose the spell is specifically a Wizard, the Spelleater Rune has no further effect - that is how it works normally after all ;)

exsulis
11-05-2007, 16:57
Exactly, if it can destroy a spell from a bound item then Light of Death which is a bound spell can be destroyed.

I don't have a dwarf book handy so I'm not 100% on the wording of the spell eater rune so you are/could be correct.

Atrahasis
11-05-2007, 17:14
Light of Death is not a bound spell.

Lundi
12-05-2007, 16:01
How do you know that? There is nothing in the Tomb Kings book that states that it either is or isn't a Bound spell.

DeathlessDraich
12-05-2007, 18:07
Hello and welcome Lundi.

Yes, it does not explicitly state that LOD is or is not a bound spell.

LOD is "cast like an incantation" and is "released from the Casket"
- Casket rules

Only the casting aspect can be equated to bound spells.

The possession of a bound spell however does not make an item or character a wizard.

pg 121 "possessing a bound spell does not make a character a wizard"

Ninsaneja
12-05-2007, 18:40
While it can be destroyed like a regular spell, it would still not be destroyed if it was a regular spell. It's not being cast by a wizard, so the rune does not affect it. In a similar way, the empire magic item that specifically "captures and destroys" spells from a wizard can not affect spells known/cast by non-wizard models.

Atrahasis
12-05-2007, 20:51
How do you know that? There is nothing in the Tomb Kings book that states that it either is or isn't a Bound spell.

There's nothing that states whether the armour save granted by the Armour of Meteoric Iron is or isn't a bound spell either.

The only thing that makes the LoD look anything like a bound spell is the fact that it is a spell.

Things do not fall into a category unless they satisfy all criteria for that category, and LoD does not.

druchii
12-05-2007, 21:01
How do you know that? There is nothing in the Tomb Kings book that states that it either is or isn't a Bound spell.


Lundi,
We know that the Light of Death is not a bound spell because nothing says it is.

The rules tell us what we CAN do, not what we CANNOT. Neither the Tomb King army book nor the rule book tell us the Light of Death is a bound spell.

d

Lundi
13-05-2007, 11:18
I know the Spelleater Rune does not affect the Light Of Death, I jumped the gun a little bit on that one. But other items that can destroy spells can destroy the Light Of Death, right? But because these items need different rolls to affect Bound Spells, I wanna know if the Light Of Death counts as a spell cast by a wizard, or as a Bound spell?

You are all saying that the Light Of Death is not cast by a wizard, and I can agree with that, but that doesn't leave any alternatives, except it being a Bound Spell. Trying to say that the Light Of Death is neither is trying to have your cake and eat it at the same time.

The BRB only states two possible ways to cast a spell: By a wizard, or by a Bound Spell. There is no third way, and nothing in the TK army book contradicts the BRB on this.

Atrahasis
13-05-2007, 13:47
The BRB only states two possible ways to cast a spell: By a wizard, or by a Bound Spell. There is no third way, and nothing in the TK army book contradicts the BRB on this.Yes it does. By telling us how the Casket casts and not assigning it to a wizard or a bound item.

lparigi34
13-05-2007, 15:21
Yes it does. By telling us how the Casket casts and not assigning it to a wizard or a bound item.

Indeed all is quite vague: behaves like a warmachine, but is not... casts like incantations, but LoD is not an incantation neither a bound spell.

Ninsaneja
13-05-2007, 21:58
I'd say it can still be destroyed as if it were a spell by things which specifically target the spell and not the wizard casting it. But I don't have the TK book and am not certain about the wording.

druchii
13-05-2007, 22:11
I know the Spelleater Rune does not affect the Light Of Death, I jumped the gun a little bit on that one. But other items that can destroy spells can destroy the Light Of Death, right? But because these items need different rolls to affect Bound Spells, I wanna know if the Light Of Death counts as a spell cast by a wizard, or as a Bound spell?

You are all saying that the Light Of Death is not cast by a wizard, and I can agree with that, but that doesn't leave any alternatives, except it being a Bound Spell. Trying to say that the Light Of Death is neither is trying to have your cake and eat it at the same time.

The BRB only states two possible ways to cast a spell: By a wizard, or by a Bound Spell. There is no third way, and nothing in the TK army book contradicts the BRB on this.

As Atra already pointed out, the TK book tells us how the "spell"(it isn't a spell) is cast. Fortunately, the Army Books take precidence over the Big Rule Book.