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pox
05-05-2007, 06:19
so now I gotta paint this dragon, and its bigger then I thought. I spent most of the day just getting it ready to paint! first up, I had to build the turntable to paint it on.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/setup1.jpg

this gave me an easy base to work from. I got a bit of brass rod, and can drill holes into the wood as needed to brace the dragon in various positions. I also got two crates, the larger is a foot tall, the smaller six inches. the edges of the crates are lined with rubber, as is the base of the turntable. the crates give me the ability to raise the dragon up quite a bit, so I can paint it upside down. here's a shot of the turntable on high.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/setup2.jpg

I also got floral foam, so I can easily flip it on its side, or even upside down if needed. the only problem is the foam leaves a bit of grit on the mini, so I need to make sure the paint is dried before I flip it.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/setup3.jpg

the last bit of prep was a trip to the store for fresh paint and brushes, followed by some much needed clean up at the old paint station.

I dry brushed a guide coat, it took a while.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/drybrushed.jpg

I'm still learning how to photograph dark miniatures, so bear with me for the first few posts.

the last bit of prep took me the longest. I went over the entire model, and wrote out the color choices for each part. I also broke the mini down by sections, and the order I'm going to paint them. (still working on the order a bit.) for sure I'm going to start with the body and wings, this will give me a good base to work from, and also set the overall "feel" of the model.

my painting skill is not as good as my sculpting skill. for my entire wargaming career, I have been the modeling/converting guy, and the speed painting guy.
because of this, I'm a lot more open to advise to go along with criticisms. I only ask that it stay structured, and it's something I can actually use.

any and all questions and comments are appreciated!

Warlord Teekch
05-05-2007, 06:45
If we don't have an "all hail" emoticon, we need it just so that I can bow down to you. That creation is absolutely amazing and chaotic. By the way, I didn't see it in your previous article, but what material did you use to sculpt it?

spikedog
05-05-2007, 07:32
Great looking start. I'm really happy to be seeing some paint slapped on this guy as he will look fantastic when done.

However didn't you say you were going to do a lot of practice models to up your skills before going for the big one?

Math Mathonwy
05-05-2007, 08:02
http://www.paperdemon.com/images/forum/mysmilies/15pxyellow_worship.gif

It's simply awesome, but you really need more lighting.

the_dark_sarge
05-05-2007, 08:18
you sir are simply amazing
if you start doing commission work you'll make a fortune

kieran

titan136
05-05-2007, 08:24
my god that thing is going to be a monster when you finish it. looking forward to following this thread

Ninners
05-05-2007, 09:41
but...

it's so big...

how will???

but...

o i wish i was as good as that

Great work, watching this thread with keen interest

Some Muppet
05-05-2007, 11:23
i really dont envy your task...

well, i do sort of, your dragon is one of the best minis ever, and i really would love to get my hands on one, but the painting will take soo long......

Eniac
05-05-2007, 11:45
I think I will be keeping an eye on this one. If you paint it as well as you sculpted it, it will probably be the best thing evaaaar:D

pox
05-05-2007, 14:23
the problem with practicing, a lot of the detail is so "large", it doesn't translate well to the dragon. my plan is to find a toy, (prolly a mcfarlane), prime it, and make sure my technique is solid before I do it to the dragon. I was just too excited about painting it, and decided to get it fully ready before I did all my practicing.
I used magic sculpt to make him. its just a different kind of two-part epoxie putty.

armos
05-05-2007, 15:36
Wow! looks even better primed... what sort of colour scheme are you going for?

Merceus
05-05-2007, 15:44
Finally! Please! Show your practices! I must see how this is going to end!!

TheWarSmith
05-05-2007, 15:52
Must be....Tzeentch....DRAGON!!!!

Paulus
05-05-2007, 15:55
Ooh! Didn't realise you'd started painting this beastie Pox. I shall be watching this thread! :)

THE CHIEF
05-05-2007, 16:00
*Bows down in awe*

Good luck mate!

sanctusmortis
05-05-2007, 20:06
*Adds sub* You could've at least told us in the other thread...

Even the base coating's looking good. I thought it was still in parts for easier painting?

lee
05-05-2007, 20:22
can't wait to see thing painted

Luthien
05-05-2007, 21:40
thats not a mini, thats a ********** lifesize dragon, and by buggery (can i say that??) i want one. Pox i salute you :D :D

pox
05-05-2007, 23:30
yeah, sorry for no update in the other thread, I'll add one. this is gonna be my catch all thread for the dragon, including the practice stuff. I decided to just keep it low key, if thats even possible. I'm working on the final list of colors, and purchasing the test model today I'll show both when their done. (if not tonight, then tomorrow for sure.

sir.spamalot
06-05-2007, 00:51
Cheers lad this is going to be one amazing piece when it's done1 *Bows done and sacrifices a kitten*

...But you didn't make resin casts of it....;)

Hollopoint
06-05-2007, 01:39
Meh, I've seen better. :D

It does look awesome and seeing it fully painted will be amazing. I don't know why but I can just imagine a little dude standing up to him in a similar vein to this picture.

http://img-www.theonering.net/theonering/contests/images/092502_19first.jpg

Tsen
06-05-2007, 02:13
I am not envious of the task you are undertaking, but I'm looking forward to seeing it though.

Tsen Out

pox
06-05-2007, 02:30
so I have a problem. with the current setup/camera, I can't seem to get good detail shots. here's what I mean.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/skinkfront.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/skinkback.jpg

they're not bad shots, but you can't tell the difference from one shade or ten. the dragon is gonna make or break on the layering/blending, and I need to be able to shoot it! I have a cheapo camera, not sure if I want to buy a new one right now. I'm shooting on white board, with two lamps. I have heavy construction paper taped over the spotlights for diffusing. I have it set on mini, and my shutter speed is as low as my camera will allow. basically, if I get the camera any closer to the figure, it blurs out. but where it's at now, the picture becomes too grainy for subtle detail and shading.

I'm looking for any help, or a link to a good shooting guide.

Cpt_NinjaPants
06-05-2007, 03:14
Good luck, you're going to need it.

JT-Y
06-05-2007, 07:55
Try the other way then; speed up the shutter speed and get farther away when taking the pic.

Hopefully the detail will be there still and may be crisper.
Crop down the picture with whatever programme you are using to get closer to the subject, and enhance the picture to remove any irregularities.

What programme do you use, BTW?

Vattendroppe
06-05-2007, 10:31
I will follow this as I followed the sculpting! I really hope you're entering this to golden demon, would be such a waste otherwise.

*EDIT*


I'm looking for any help, or a link to a good shooting guide.

What kind of camera do you use? I don't experience a tripod to be essential in any way, just have good lighting, alternativly 2-3 loose flashes. Go for a quite high F number (11-18) for overall pictures and low for certain details (3-6), but one still needs good light so that the ISO speed can be set down to 100-200 and the shutter at 1/100 or higher (personally I prefer to have at least 1/500 since my hands are a bit shaky). Then macro is pretty essential if you're going to take pics of details, or many active pixels (I run on 6, but I recon that 4 would work also) so that you can make a nice digital cutting in your comp later.

Math Mathonwy
06-05-2007, 10:46
I'm looking for any help, or a link to a good shooting guide.
Do you have a tripod - absolutely essential. Also, taking the pics with a timer helps eliminate the shaking of you pressing the button. For maximum lighting, outside works actually pretty good.

But, truth to tell, the pic looks like your camera just isn't up to speed, sorry to say. The macro simply isn't quite good enough for perfectly crisp shots, it looks like.

pox
06-05-2007, 14:23
yeah, I use a timer, iso is at 100, and a tripod. nothing else on the camera can be set. (pretty much anything else vattendroppe said).

I have a hp photosmart E217, its pretty low end. I got it on sale, it was 50% off, normally 200 (with the photo printer). I use the editing program it came with, mostly just for cropping the pictures. I'm going to go camera shopping after work, it looks like. :(

@ vattendroppe: didn't you take the picture thats your avatar? I don't know why thats in my head. you seem to know your stuff, what am I looking for when I buy a camera?

Starks333
06-05-2007, 15:31
priming it black just dropped the possibilities you had with the model, i really wish you did it white

anyways, now that its black, heres whats needed

lets say you paint the area black

basecoat of thinned chaos black paint(always cover all the black primer)
add bronzed flesh or bleached bone...5-6 layers of glazing with this
add more...5-6 more layers
add more... 5-6 more layers
add more... 5-6 more layers
add more... 5-6 more layers
add last amount 5-6 more layers
(even more layers or shades if the surface is large or in an area that gets both light and darkness)

then you can glaze the area between the black shades and the highlights with blue, red, brown, green, purple etc to add tints or nuances

you should be hitting about 30-100 layers everywhere

super thin glazes, aka tranasparent layers is how you blend smoothly....every colour goes from dark brown in shade(not necessarily a dark brown though) to a creamy or whiteish colour in light(even black)

so on the skin your highlights arent bright enough, and shades not dark enough, if you were doing a light from above...if you are just highlighting edges and shading recesses....well lets just say i hope you dont

as to cameras, nikons are apparently the best from what ive heard at detail but they are more expensive, my kodak cam is great(but older) as well, never even use a tripod yet...you basicly need to try it out, bring a model with you ask if you can test it out...you should be able to capture the detail without perfect lighting and a tripod(but of course with macro on :P).... some cameras even with macro and 37128379megapixels have terrible detail capturing, you dont need a $500000 camera or anything however

Starks

Vattendroppe
06-05-2007, 15:37
Yes, I took the picture on my avatar, you might remember it from when I had it stated in my avatar. And yes, I'm quite interrested in photographing.

And back to cameras. What kind of camera your looking for depends completely on what you're planning to use it for, if it's pretty much only photographing miniatures and vacations then you might not want to pay out $500 on a high-end system camera. Right now I'm trying to find stats for the camera you've already got, with a little effort there's hope that one could calibrate aperture (I think it's the correct word, got it from a dictionary) and shutter on it.

Anyway, if you're after a new camera you'd want to be looking at a camera with decent macro and at least some ability to calibrate the aperture, that way you have the ability to decide yourself weather to take on a single detail or the model as whole. The best would be to ask at your local electronics-shop, make them think that you're interested in bying one and then go look for used ones on the web. One can get SO much better prices at the web! I don't know that much about compact cameras, since I'm mostly in to SLRs, but I know that Ixus has had a great range of wodnerful cameras that satisfy most needs. But if you're a bit lucky you could find used system-cameras starting at $300, including objective and flash.

In whole, the most solid tip I've got is to ask your local dealer for good camera with ability to adjust the aperture and then go find one cheaper on the web :)

*EDIT*

I think there are lots of nice open source photo editing programs on the web if you feel that you need a better.

*MORE EDIT*

Okay, I surfed around a bit and found a Nikon D70 at $20, and that was with LOADS of extra equipment. If you can find systems at that cost, they're worth it anyday!

Some Muppet
06-05-2007, 16:59
ive only heard aperture used when talking about telescopes (its the end lens that lets all the light in), but telescopes and cameras are very similar, so your're proberly ok ;)

what god is this dragon gonna follow, it seems very tzeentchey becasue of all the mutations, but i wonderered what u are gonna paint it as.
i also think that you should of used white primer in this case, because it will make the detail easier to see and the colour brighter and have easier coverage (i normally use black, but on suce a large figure, white just makes it alot easier)

McNuggets
06-05-2007, 17:08
nothing to say other than subscribed :D

Merceus
06-05-2007, 17:17
Meh, I've seen better. :D

Wait... what?

sanctusmortis
06-05-2007, 19:27
I would say that physical zoom is probably a good thing to have, and the more the better. Obviously, a good macro setting's also a good idea.

I've got an old Fuji S5000, bought off eBay for £80 inc rechargable batteries and a fast charger. Detail shots are superb, even without macro. Basically, I'd have a snoop around the net at cameras that are semi-SLR.

VainEnd
06-05-2007, 21:23
If you are looking for a camera that is good for photographing miniatures, and you don't want to spend thousands of dollars on an SLR or DSLR, go for a point and shoot by wither canon or sony, they tend to be the best deal, go for one that is at least 4 megapixle, and has an optical and if you want a digital zoom, also make sure that it has a setting for macro or close up photography (it tends to be a picture of a flower), I have a Canon PowerShot S500 5.0 Mega pixel. It cost me around $300 Canadian and that was 4 years ago; the newer one is cheaper and better!

And I must say that this model is going to be amazing once it is finished, I really liked the sculpting part, and your painting set up looks awesome, good job thus far and good luck

Braad
06-05-2007, 21:23
I'm already starting to drool here...

Don't you know someone with a good camera which you can borrow now and then? That's cheaper than buying a new one...

pox
07-05-2007, 00:24
ok, getting the camera today, I got all the info I need thanks to you guys. I can borrow a friends camera( don't know what it is, but its the camera equivalent to lord croak) and on to painting! I have not decided fully what colors I'm using, I will this evening, and post before.

I primed it black for one simple reason, every miniature I have painted for the last ten years was primed black. its the same reason I'm using americana brand paint, its what I know. I know what every color looks like dry, and I know how to layer every color in the range. there is a strategy to picking and choosing what I am going to learn in time to finish the dragon. I don't think the decision to prime it black has killed the paint job, a lot of the painting guides I've been reading suggest it. also, the technique I'm using is layering and blending, It's the only high-end painting skill I have. plus, I find bold layering and blending to be much more in the GW/warmachine style, which is what I want. ( as opposed to the confrontation/reaper master style)

The dragon is undivided. I'll eventually make one for each god. (I'm kidding, I think.)

mousekiller
07-05-2007, 00:28
I love that turntable idea.

And, finally, someone else that uses the green flower foam...

Imp of High Noon
07-05-2007, 01:00
*sobs quietly* It's so beautiful. I'm going kill you, eat your brain and wear your skin. Thereby gaining your skill

Jonke
07-05-2007, 01:04
( don't know what it is, but its the camera equivalent to lord croak)

i.e. dead? :D

When finished that dragon will have to be locked away not to cause sensory meltdown and insanity on anyone seeing it. Most amazing model I've ever seen. Keep up the good work!

fleshcross
07-05-2007, 02:52
Meh, I've seen better. :D

It does look awesome and seeing it fully painted will be amazing. I don't know why but I can just imagine a little dude standing up to him in a similar vein to this picture.

http://img-www.theonering.net/theonering/contests/images/092502_19first.jpg

Is that Fingolfin fighting Melkor?

Vattendroppe
07-05-2007, 06:06
( don't know what it is, but its the camera equivalent to lord croak)


i.e. dead? :D

I.E. So powerful that it were dead, but then arose again! Like my Minolta XG9 :rolleyes:.

Seriosly, that seems like a nice cam, presume it's Nikon D70/Canon EOS 350D or better :)

If it's a EOS 1, I will kill you friend and wear his camera to gain his skills.

pox
07-05-2007, 06:08
i.e. dead? :D

no, not dead, just really expensive and bad-ass, haha.

ok, so I got a new camera. I'm still learning my way around it, but the thing can damn near see through layers of paint. I'm still fixing the lighting, so bear with me. I did, however, get some awesome shots. this is gonna be a double post of lizardmen.

the reason I chose these guys, is they match a few colors I'm doing on the dragon, and there some of my best stuff. I know in advance their not so good. the good news is, these are about 5 hours of painting each, so I'm hoping I can get a lot of skill out of just slowing down. first up, a kroxigor.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/krox2.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/krox1.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/krox3.jpg

ok, saurus and skinks up next.

Cpt_NinjaPants
07-05-2007, 06:13
Is that Fingolfin fighting Melkor?
Yep........

fleshcross
07-05-2007, 06:33
Yep........

That's wierd... I've never seen that painting before at all, but that was my first thought when I saw it. Does that make me a total dork? (I mean, besides the thousands of dollars of plastic/metal army men?)

pox
07-05-2007, 06:41
here's my priest.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/priest.jpg

a unit champ
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/champ.jpg

and my chief.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/skwarrback.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/skwarrfront.jpg

that should give everyone a glimpse into my current skill. like I said, these are the best I got right now, but they're still painted quite quickly.

so here is my birds-eye view of my paint scheme. I broke the model down into sections, and am listing them in no particular order. (not literally broken down, though that may have to happen.) all colours are dark hues unless specified.

1. western head
a. mouth- purple/red
b. tongue- reddish-pink
c. scales- red interior, black exterior
d. curved horns (both sets)- dark brown
e. S-shaped horns- ochre (very antler color/shade)
f. random spikes- bone

2.lamprey head
a.crab shell- red (think lobster)
b. feeder legs- mottled and spotted red. (same colour as scales, but different pattern)
c. teeth-sickly yellow (almost tallow)
d. tongue-red, super high gloss. (epoxie glue water effect)
e. barnacles- not sure. grey exterior, white interior? not sure.

3. body
a. flesh- a brown fade, that goes from light tan on the underbelly, to dark brown on top, color of dark chocolate. red at the extreme highlights
b. dessicated flesh- grey-green rot
c.tendons-grey

4. wings
a. membranes- same light tan as on the dragon's belly, with veins and age-spots running through the wings.
b. bone frame- red, same as the extreme body highlights.
c. claws- bone, with the sockets highlighted to a bright red, faded down into the wing.
d. "host" (the fish in the wing, inspired by the movie of the same name)- milky-grey, also high gloss, with ichor oozing out of various spots. along with a bit of blood. shell same color as lamprey crab shell, with barnacle colours at the edges.

5.maggot
a. skin- pale, pale blue skin.
b. veins- purple blue veins with the occasional spreading disease style black veins. (willow style, for you buffy fans)
c. teeth- bone, but a different shade then the rest of the dragon.

6. tentacles. (there are two types, those that are exploding out of the flesh, and those that blend into it)
a.exploding- bloody red, with cast off around the wounds. also high gloss finish.
b. blended- purple bluish w/veins, colours blend into features on the tentacle. (horns,spikes, etc.)

6. fins
a. not sure, I want purple, but prolly should use red to make the "core" of the model more cohesive.

thats the overview, any and all comments welcome, both about where I need to focus on getting better paint-wise, and what your thoughts are for the paint scheme.

pox
07-05-2007, 06:42
no fleshcross, the fact that your a dork makes you a dork. the miniatures just give you an excuse. :)

pox
07-05-2007, 06:47
I.E. So powerful that it were dead, but then arose again! Like my Minolta XG9 :rolleyes:.

Seriosly, that seems like a nice cam, presume it's Nikon D70/Canon EOS 350D or better :)

If it's a EOS 1, I will kill you friend and wear his camera to gain his skills.

I'll ask him, it would be funny to tell him he has a stalker.I got a powershot A560. with what I knew combined with what you posted, I knew exactly what I wanted. it took three salesman to translate what I said, but the camera delivered on ever level. its already taking better photo's then I could have ever dreamed, and I haven't had it for more then a day. :) it took about four months to get the best shots from my old camera, so I'm pretty excited about it.

thanks again for your help! I KNEW you were the guy to talk to, don't know why I remembered that bit about your avatar.

mistahsmoovelegs
07-05-2007, 06:57
im looking forward to seeing this model painted. with the black undercoat, i thought it looked like a small tree. Good luck Pox.

fleshcross
07-05-2007, 07:36
What, no NMM Pox? Pft...

Looking good buddy. I think those skinks are the best of the bunch, but that could be because I hate the color scheme of the saurus. If you put half as much effort into painting it as you did sculpting it you have nothing to worry about buddy. Or, you could go balls out and paint the entire thing as a Metallic Dragon and do it all Sky-Earth Non-Metallic Metal...

The color scheme looks good though. Lot's of red will give it a very "classic" look, which will help define it more as a dragon considering all the craziness you sculpted on it.


no fleshcross, the fact that your a dork makes you a dork. the miniatures just give you an excuse. :)

I'm not a dork, I'm a bartender!

Hideous Loon
07-05-2007, 08:33
fleshcross: There is no area for him to do any NMM... It's all teeth and scales and stuff...

Looking good pox, I've been lurking your sculpting thread since the beginning, and I really love it. Keep going, man!

Shuya
07-05-2007, 10:59
I say enter the dragon and the skink in a GD in the duel category "Worlds most lopsided duel, EVER."

Anywho, I'm looking forward to it

vampires are cool!
07-05-2007, 13:04
Christ on a bike! Not only does the model look awsome, but you've managed to mount it on a normal monster base!

Hideous Loon
07-05-2007, 13:13
And it looks so TINY, too! Almost smaller than a regular base.

kaimarion
07-05-2007, 13:16
christ where....
Its ok he didnt see me....Why did you put a monster base on it,no model could ever get in base contact with it any way...get a bigger base :)
But the model looks so kick-ass.

Vattendroppe
07-05-2007, 13:20
christ where....
Its ok he didnt see me....Why did you put a monster base on it,no model could ever get in base contact with it any way...get a bigger base :)
But the model looks so kick-ass.

It's so big that all other miniatures will fit in UNDER the dragon itself and therefore be able to get to the base ^^

pox
07-05-2007, 15:43
thats correct, even knights with spears up can get within 1/2 an inch, and most ground units can get flush against it. terrain is a bit of a problem though. I will only take it to games day once, but I can play with it forever. :)

Starks333
07-05-2007, 16:24
using your example pieces adding brighter highlights are darker shades will help add contrast and definition, they look too flat

the scales look only highlighted once, you will one another brighter shade to exentuate the features, and a darker one to again emphasisze their shape

for reds, mix in purple and brown to shade

for yellow, wash with purple and browns

when doing blacks, greys and whites, try to stay away from greyscale, so mixing in yellowish colours to them(bone and bronzed flesh) helps keep them looking nicer, for white theres several ways to do it, i like shading with a brownish grey

for blue, bleached bone is perfect, adding some broned flesh will warm it up but adding too much will greenify it, shade by adding brown and purple unless its a dark blue in which case you can use chaos black even though it will desaturate you wont notice because its so dark

are you aiming for chicago? i believe i will be in attendence unless things change

Starks

Pekel
07-05-2007, 16:42
Hey, are you a member of Something Awful? Here (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/forum-fridays/ff05-07-2007.php) there's a featured forum link on some sculpted Chaos Dragon, but I can't view it.

If it is, congrats. And if not, doesn't matter. I really want to see this painted anyway. :D

pox
07-05-2007, 21:48
wow, I made featured forum link! yeah, its my dragon, just a watered down version of my sculpting thread from here. I'm bring it to LA, not chicago, sorry. there's no way to transport it safely from cali to chicago, LA is my only option. plus its closer. :)

Malakian
07-05-2007, 23:12
I was like, wtf wat is this,when I saw your first versions of the dragon. Wings and torso only. Then a couple of days ago found your thread again I was like "man, that is one hell of a dragon". And one hell of a dragon to transport. Nothing constructing to say than its just the coolest dragon ever. Could you take a close shot of the dragons head to see all the details, thanks.

How much did that thing cost? That lizzy has some serious amounts of milliput?

fleshcross
07-05-2007, 23:20
It's Magic Sculpt, so not that much at all. I'd be suprised if Mark used much more than $25 worth.

Malakian
07-05-2007, 23:28
wot? That thing is huge how can he survive with only about 20 euros. Is magic sculpt the cheapest modelling putty/clay ever?

fleshcross
07-05-2007, 23:40
Yea, pretty much. It's about $25 for roughly 10 pounds of it (5lbs of resin, 5lbs of hardener). It's possible he used more, though, but not by much I'd think.

pox
08-05-2007, 01:31
yeah, its actually 2.5 pound buckets, you get five pounds for 30, with shipping. I like it more then any other clay I've worked with. (its sold in up to 50 pound sizes! and as small as 10 oz.)

Vattendroppe
08-05-2007, 06:51
Is there no catch to it either? Things that cheap usually have some sort of flaw...

pox
08-05-2007, 08:05
its a bit different to work with. its stickier, and on large surface areas you have to use baby powder instead of water. It has a slower drying time then GS, so you have longer to sculpt, but it takes longer to dry between layers. when dry it's much harder, so can be sanded/drilled/glued a bit easier then GS. its also easier to do hard edges with it. one major downside is the only place I've ever seen it carried is at my local gaming store, mostly at my request. you have to find a distributor for it, and get it shipped, which sucks.

all that being said, its cheap as hell, with what I would just call "different" properties, not better or worse. I used it for armatures at first, then blocking out detail, and then finally fine detail. the only time I use GS anymore is when I need stretched, droopy flesh, like necrotic zombie flesh. its just faster to use GS for that style of detail.

fleshcross
08-05-2007, 09:26
Wait, what's this baby powder thing you're talking about? That might be useful to know if, say, I was going to start a large project....

madd0ct0r
08-05-2007, 14:41
baby powder = talcumn powder. If you're changing a baby's nappy you use it to make sure their bum is dry before the new nappy goes on.
I shouldn' know this yet.:(

fleshcross
08-05-2007, 18:02
Uh... I know what baby powder is. What I was asking was how it was used as far as Magic Sculpt goes...

madd0ct0r
08-05-2007, 20:29
Like flour on the rolling pin when you're baking.

Um, for a slightly less domesticated analogy, it's like the oil layer on your tools when you use greenstuff - it stops the medium sticking to the tool and being pulled out of shape. I'm guessing that water would only make the magic sculpt (at least at the start) get stickier and less resistant.

Grenswick
09-05-2007, 01:34
Sounds like things are shaping up mark, at first i wasn't quite sure about your colour scheme, but I think it's really going to look nice now. In my humble opinion, I would avoid using greens and blues, as it seems that the cooler colours would be distracting and clash with the overall look. I'm really liking the red, brown, bone, gray, approach...very earthy. Keep up the good work!

pox
09-05-2007, 05:28
here's the first shots of my wing.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/wing-2.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/wingfar.jpg

I'm pretty happy with it overall, comments appreciated.

Pekel
09-05-2007, 05:38
I'd use watered-down Liche Purple for the veins in the wings. Would give it a more translucent look.

Great so far, though.

Pants
09-05-2007, 06:21
I don't need any pornography, I have pictures of this dragon now.

pox
09-05-2007, 06:31
you know pants, I think thats the best compliment I've ever gotten.

Harry
09-05-2007, 07:10
I am also sexually aroused.

What you have done so far looks great.

The painting means that finally we can really see some of the wonderful detail in the texture. It looks amazing.

I love the neutral earth tones you have gone for that is really going to make the heads and other 'feature' bits stand out.

I don't know why, possibly because the sculpt has always been white, I had imagined the whole thing Tzeentched up in purples and pinks.

Your colour scheme is much mor exciting.

I am really liking where this is heading. Can't wait for more pics.

I imagine anyone who has come across this thread who had originally planned to enter the Warhammer Monster catagory at LA is currently selecting another catagory to enter.

Rabid Bunny 666
09-05-2007, 11:30
Not as far as aroused, but that wing looks mighty fine. The only problem i can see is the rest of it is unpainted :D Man i wanna see this beast finished.

1truegod
09-05-2007, 11:41
we are not worthy

Cpt_NinjaPants
09-05-2007, 12:08
I don't need any pornography, I have pictures of this dragon now.

Sigged.....

Great Dragon thus far Pox.

Nineswords
09-05-2007, 12:13
I don't need any pornography, I have pictures of this dragon now.

:eyebrows:

Alex Under
09-05-2007, 12:28
It is a fact that men can't live the fulfilling experience of giving birth, something that is entitled exclusively to women...

But this fact changed the moment you built this dragon!

sir.spamalot
09-05-2007, 13:58
You can do it we know you can! Looking excellent by the way:)

Harry
09-05-2007, 14:14
It is a fact that men can't live the fulfilling experience of giving birth, something that is entitled exclusively to women...

But this fact changed the moment you built this dragon!

I think I have more chance of giving birth than ever producing something like this Dragon!

Grenswick
09-05-2007, 14:27
Phenomenal. Excellent work Mark, and so quick as well!

fleshcross
09-05-2007, 17:59
It is a fact that men can't live the fulfilling experience of giving birth, something that is entitled exclusively to women...

But this fact changed the moment you built this dragon!


I think I have more chance of giving birth than ever producing something like this Dragon!

You never saw Junior?

sir.spamalot
09-05-2007, 18:06
You never saw Junior?

Alright now lets not bring juniors or minors into this:p ....

pox
09-05-2007, 23:21
so I leave for just a little bit, and the thread goes all weird. I wonder if they go bad, like milk past its prime? who knows. :) I'm off to paint for the next five hours, hopefully I'll have pics before bed.

fleshcross
10-05-2007, 00:15
so I leave for just a little bit, and the thread goes all weird. I wonder if they go bad, like milk past its prime? who knows. :) I'm off to paint for the next five hours, hopefully I'll have pics before bed.

It's me, I ruin things, you know that.

The wing looks rad bucko. Can't wait to see more.

Master Bait
10-05-2007, 02:02
just a wee concern - i dunno if this would even bother you, but looking at the leathery/bone sort of colour of the wings with the dark red limbs; you don't think this will end up a similar paint scheme as the Studio's one for Hive Fleet Kraken?

i'm not sure if this matters, or even if that's the direction it'll end up - that's just what sprung to mind when i saw that close up.

beautiful model by the way, can't wait to see this finished :)

The Dude
10-05-2007, 02:12
You never saw Junior?

But that was Arnie, who cannot be counted amongst mortal men :D

N810
10-05-2007, 02:26
those wings are looking good.

fleshcross
10-05-2007, 02:39
But that was Arnie, who cannot be counted amongst mortal men :D

Tis true, the Governator is an island amongst us.

Catferret
10-05-2007, 02:52
Was wondering what had happened to this beast! I'd been following the old thread for ages and hadn't realised you'd started a new one for painting it.

I'm liking the brown theme so far. Very Nurgley I'm tempted to say. A welcome break from all the usual colours people paint dragons.

Good luck with this project. Please don't drop it while you are painting! :eek:

pox
10-05-2007, 03:19
only the leather of the wings are painted, the "bone" frame, spikes, and random teeth have yet to be done. I should have a complete picture by the end of today.

ForAcheron
10-05-2007, 05:42
you know pants, I think thats the best compliment I've ever gotten.

Oh come on, I have told you I would make love to it every time you had it at the shop.

pox
10-05-2007, 05:52
just a quick update. I got the leather finished on the wings, and the base coat done for the frame. I cannot stress enough that there is ONE layer of paint (the red) and it looks terrible right now. will look better in a few days when I have time to shade and highlight.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/far.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/close.jpg

THE CHIEF
10-05-2007, 09:12
Sensory palpatations are beginning already - I think I'll have an embolism by the time this is finished!

yerpo
10-05-2007, 09:16
How many jaws do you think I have to pre-order for the purpose of dropping?

Sureshot05
10-05-2007, 11:27
I think that if you keep up this standard, you may have to place arm guards and a drainage system around your model at Golden Demon. Its great work and really impressive! The wings shading is superb (looking forward to the remainder of the wing).

Vattendroppe
10-05-2007, 12:38
Just love the earth/brown/reddish-theme... Goes perfectly with my balrog-vision! :D

sir.spamalot
10-05-2007, 17:41
Really good, I'm betting that it's gonna go for GOLDen deamon trophy or maybe slayer sword :eek:

The Dude
11-05-2007, 09:38
Pox, could you give us a shot of some of your Beastmen so we can see how he'll fit with the army as a whole?

Some Muppet
11-05-2007, 16:11
veru nice sofar, love the tonallity of the wing :)

Ninners
11-05-2007, 18:09
I don't think i can repeat what i first thought when i saw that model...

Simply incredible, awesome, amazing, brilliant and any other words that means "jaw dropping". There is no other way to describe it

pox
12-05-2007, 06:09
latest pics, almost done with the wing. I still have all the detail stuff to do, but the bone frame and leather wings are finished.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/wing2.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/wing1.jpg

I wont have any updates until Monday. :(

MF3000
12-05-2007, 07:48
Ewww those membranes are so disgusting!

I think you got that leather wing poifectly done. Old... leathery... digusting old... old old old leather... old wings... with old leather... yuck!

10/10

sj

unwanted
12-05-2007, 10:10
Sweet Jeebus!

And you were worried about your painting not doing it justice!

It looks fantastic so far!

Aflo
12-05-2007, 11:28
Ewww those membranes are so disgusting!

I think you got that leather wing poifectly done. Old... leathery... digusting old... old old old leather... old wings... with old leather... yuck!

10/10



Quoted for truth ;)

Spacejens
12-05-2007, 13:45
This is stunning. With this quality, you will do the model justice. No need to worry about that.

You will need a glass cabinet to store it for display. With a lock to prevent curious people from touching its majestic form.

The_Dark_Raven
12-05-2007, 14:15
Hey, you got some skill there!

that is very nice work i think Golden Demon is made for your dragon, series it is a work of art, you paint so well because your not a mortal man.

good luck with the final details on the wing:) and hope the rest of the model looks this good

sir.spamalot
12-05-2007, 16:30
WOW:eek: Just wow, I have nothing bad to say about it....I love it! Will the two wings be different colours?

cheers

sanctusmortis
12-05-2007, 18:28
Mmmm, gribbly! It could maybe do with being a little lighter/browner in the recesses, but a few washes would sort that.

You're doing the sculpting justice so far, for sure!

pox
13-05-2007, 02:56
@sir.spamalot: no, I decided the wings would be the same color. at this point, I'm desperately trying to bring a central focus back.

@sanctusmortis: I had lighter/darker highlights, but they didn't work. it has to do with the model's size, their is a lot of natural shading because of the scale of the damn thing. I did a test piece, and decided to just wash it once with a 50/50 water/fleshwash. that did the trick.

oh, and if anyone cares, I'm pretty much using this thread as my main source of information. http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71379 mousekiller manages to include EVERY bit of information you could possibly need. the only time I've strayed from his formulas is where size in concerned. I ran into similar problems painting my great gargant, its a different skill set when you go over a foot or so.

Franco
13-05-2007, 19:05
I think this work is over-rated, i could do much better with my eyes shut. My dog could do better!!!
Is it hell over-rated, it is amazing. I could not get to that standard, nor half of it. I thought i would say it was crap because most of the posts on the thread have been 'WOW!!!!!!' and i wanted to be different. But i have to admit that the sculpting is top class and the painting isn't far off it aswell. Well done and good luck with the rest of it. I will be keeping my eye on this thread!!! (and so will most people)

ImhotepMagi
14-05-2007, 16:40
Its people loik you wot cause unrest! I find your ability to both scuplt and paint at godlike standards a truly loathesome circumstance! And I mean that in the best possible way!;)

Starks333
19-05-2007, 14:37
the problem im seeing that could arise is because you are using only saturated bright cartoony colours, even with great colour placement your model can lose focus with so many parts

this is why god invented desaturated colours :) which just means greyer duller colours(you can achieve them in several ways, add complimentary colours, add black or white, or add grey of the same or close to same intensity)

you really should try a bit with them, because i guarantee they will help you emphasize parts more, and easier..like the veins on the wings could be dulled a bit so they arent so violent, which will leave for bringing out detail on the core of the model

red shaded to black is often too bold, mixing in brown/purple for shadows brightens the red without it being ridiculously cartoony bold

also on larger surfaces your highlights and shades are larger, as in cover larger area, you can edge highlight, you have to blend an area Voila Ici: Jeremie Bonamonts Pirate (http://www.coolminiornot.com/85525) its a bust, with good size and large surfaces(larger than yours) while his is obviously more skill required, its an example of how depth works on larger sculpts

you have depth in shadow(even if its black, which i really suggest you avoid) but your highlights really lack and hence your model starts to look like a cell shaded cartoon

if you want it to stay, i personally felt the wings looked better before the "redening" now they just meld in with the arms, which adds too much red and overpowers(even though the model isnt done)

Starks

Warwolt the skaven
19-05-2007, 14:57
looks teh awesome!

the_dark_sarge
20-05-2007, 00:24
this is so unfair
firstly you convert 10000000 time better than me and now you paint way better than me
you are to talented
nice work
kieran

pox
20-05-2007, 06:30
just a quick update, I don't have time for a full one. (mothers day followed by graduation week, utter hell for a brunch/banquet cook.)

I re-did the entire paint job, for a laundry list of reasons I'll go into next update.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/wing3.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/wing2-1.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/wing1-1.jpg

I,m painting all day Monday and Tuesday, so full updates then!

MF3000
20-05-2007, 07:38
Yuck bro yuck.

Great work!

sj

Strelok
20-05-2007, 07:52
Honestly, I think the skink with his head thrown back and the blade raised should be put on the dragons base as if he is challenging the dragon and the dragon is just ignoring him. Mind you, I made this comment mid-way through the pages in this thread because the idea popped into my head. I'm going to continue reading the thread now (high possibility of edits).

EDIT (I told you!): OK, the wings look excellent, your painting is a lot better than you give yourself credit for. Also, that new camera takes some excellent up-close shots it seems!

sir.spamalot
20-05-2007, 13:50
Ooooh, pretty:)

I can't wait to see this baby finished! *hollers like some barbarous football coach(thats american football mind you ;))*


cheers

pox
20-05-2007, 14:18
@strelok: I promise to get a good picture of the two mini's together with good looking terrain, they go surprisingly well together.

Paulus
20-05-2007, 14:45
I think changing the colour of the bone structure in the wing from red to bleached bone has worked wonders Pox it looks much better & it was good before. :)

Grenswick
20-05-2007, 17:33
I concur, the bone looks much cleaner and not so vibrant, which is good.

Rabid Bunny 666
20-05-2007, 18:44
Thats looking alot better.

Vattendroppe
20-05-2007, 20:36
That is SO DARN NICE!!! :cries:

Those are tears from watching something beautiful take shape.

Sgt_Hudson
20-05-2007, 20:46
Mate thats looking sweet

McNuggets
20-05-2007, 22:29
nice isnt a great word to describe it... its disgusting, but in the best way possible

pox
20-05-2007, 23:46
so, It seems I'm not alone in opinions, good to hear. basically, I realized that the darker shades were not going to work for the whole model, and that I should avoid painting on detail. (the veins, and the red color "bleeding" into the wing membranes.) I also figured out that I was going to have to conserve the red I was using, I wanted it to be a highlight, not primary color, hence droping it from the wings entirely.

I should have both wings done by tomorrow, along with all the small detail thats sculpted onto the wings. will have more pics soon!

Cpt_NinjaPants
21-05-2007, 05:07
This dragon is looking amazing, very nicely painted. I CAN NOT wait till this entire dragon is done.

pox
24-05-2007, 04:36
got the left wing done (the top at any rate)
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/IMG_0047.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/wingL.jpg

I'm not actually sure what I'm gonna paint next, I'm just glad the wings look good. this thing is slowly killing me :)

Cpt_NinjaPants
24-05-2007, 05:56
Holy ****, that's nice. I wan't you to mold this right away, but it is too late -_-.

unwanted
24-05-2007, 08:30
:eek:

It did really make it better with the colour-shift, and it's just getting better and better!

fleshcross
24-05-2007, 08:34
Hey Mark, Holly likes that you did the wings in leopard print. It's quite... "ferocious."

Seriously though, it's looking damn nice!

titan136
24-05-2007, 08:45
holy mother of....thats beyond cool

M_M
24-05-2007, 12:31
the dragon is looking cool so far keep up the good work

Huckbuck
24-05-2007, 13:12
I would give you positive comments, but I cant say anything that havent allready been said. If you want my oppinion, just read the quote by Pants that some people have in their sig. Theres only one thing that I think you could improve atm, and thats the claw-spikey things on the wings, I mean they look good, but I think you should use more watered down layers to make thoose dark lines a bit smoother. Thats all.

Paulus
24-05-2007, 13:29
McMullet posted a helpful guide (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1396829&postcount=65) for painting horns/spikes in my project log if you want to take a look Pox, I don't think there's much wrong with yours though to be honest - better than I could do. :D

Huckbuck
24-05-2007, 13:49
Neither could I, but they could be better, and as the rest of the painting is übergood, they look a bit weak in comparasion. Just thought he would appreciate some constructive critisism instead of another person declaring him a god. I think he knows his great potential even though I dont rant about how much I do love his dragon.

Paulus
24-05-2007, 14:22
Sorry Huckbuck I've clearly made it sound as though I was putting you down in my previous post, that was certainly not my intention. :)

pox
24-05-2007, 14:28
I'm gonna take another stab at the claws, I do agree with you. I'll check out that guide after work, and see what I can come up with.

Huckbuck
24-05-2007, 17:20
Sorry Huckbuck I've clearly made it sound as though I was putting you down in my previous post, that was certainly not my intention. :)


Na you didnt, but I came out quite arrogant when you read first my post then yours. I just wanted to give him feedback since I want him to win that Golden Daemon. No harm done. ;)

sir.spamalot
25-05-2007, 16:18
Insane! :eek: those wings really bring out the model!

can't wait to see it done!


cheers

Daemonslave
26-05-2007, 21:46
To be honest when you decided to change to yellow, I thought 'oh dear'. I am pleased to say you have proved me wrong, those wings look superb. If being super critical I would agree with the above about the spikes/claw needing a touch more attention, but it still looks good.

Have you decided about colours for the rest of the model, yet?

madd0ct0r
27-05-2007, 17:29
I'm starting to worry about how you're going tie it all together - how is the aquatic dragon going to merge into the wing? I can see the white flesh creeping up but the wings themselves look too similar how do you plan to balance it back out?
otherwise, looking very nice - good shading on the wing membranes.

pox
29-05-2007, 00:19
so today's update is depressing. its moving forward, and progress, etc. but still, it took me five hours to do this right, and I am a bit sad about the whole affair. the reasons I did it are simple: five hours to destroy it, probably ten to fifteen hours to fix it, in exchange for ease of painting. I figure I'm going to save at least fifty hours of painting, in addition to making the whole process easier on me.

without further ado, my total carnage.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/destroyed.jpg

I'm gonna go out for a bit, I should have another up-date either later tonight or tomorrow.

asmodai_dark86
29-05-2007, 01:36
If you dont enter this into Games Day I will surely come and slap you.

I'd demand we start a petition up to get you over to the UK for our GD but I know fortune and she is fickle, and that beautiful creation would likely get bashed to buggery.

Dont be dismayed fella. Everyones feeling like that at the moment, it seems to be something going round. Keep at it and it'll come through okay :)

sir.spamalot
29-05-2007, 01:57
Oh! :eek: It's apart again! *sobs*


Oh well, it was your choice and probably will save you time painting..

cheers, keep up the good work!

Catferret
29-05-2007, 02:42
EEEP! That's a lot of bits! Good luck putting it back together again...

Grenswick
29-05-2007, 04:22
Ouch, that's rough. But what's done is done. By the by, from this angle, each of the bits look like some sort of creature. particularly, the body looks like a crushed tarantula.

pox
29-05-2007, 05:32
thanks greg, I hate spiders, and now can't go into my living room. (the pieces haven't moved from when I took the pic)


and I made the right call, the whole thing seems easier, it was worth it even if the only effect was a shift in my perspective of the model. I'm no longer scared to paint it.

Vattendroppe
29-05-2007, 06:05
I'd demand we start a petition up to get you over to the UK for our GD but I know fortune and she is fickle, and that beautiful creation would likely get bashed to buggery.

We could always try to get the dragon an own seat in the plane.

fleshcross
29-05-2007, 18:06
You know Mark, the first thing I saw was the pic, and I thought, "Oh my god he dropped it... again!" And then I laughed a little.

I think you made the right call piecing it out for painting though, it would definately make it easier to do.

TheWarSmith
29-05-2007, 18:49
Is there any way that you can have it so certain pieces come apart at will?

magnets/pinning/etc. so that transporting it won't be a random lottery of breakage?

tzeentchgiant
29-05-2007, 19:44
Honestly I just find it's dismantling to be another thing that makes this the most impressive individual model project there's ever been on these logs.

Kudos, mega ******** massive kudos to you :).

TG

atomicant
30-05-2007, 05:12
good luck dude. i hope to see pictures of it in white dwarf!

-adam

pox
30-05-2007, 05:27
damn, adam! I got to post in SG more often if you got to come here to see the dragon. if it doesn't get into the white dwarf, I'm just gonna print out a picture of the finished model and past it over the actual winner.

strambo
30-05-2007, 05:29
dude that looks so awesome

atomicant
30-05-2007, 06:13
damn, adam! I got to post in SG more often if you got to come here to see the dragon. if it doesn't get into the white dwarf, I'm just gonna print out a picture of the finished model and past it over the actual winner.

i want a copy.

:D

fleshcross
30-05-2007, 06:38
My god, it's Adam. Do I have to come on the internet to find you?

-Bryan

atomicant
30-05-2007, 06:51
My god, it's Adam. Do I have to come on the internet to find you?

-Bryan

dude, i work your days off. i got nothin'.

Vattendroppe
30-05-2007, 07:49
damn, adam! I got to post in SG more often if you got to come here to see the dragon. if it doesn't get into the white dwarf, I'm just gonna print out a picture of the finished model and past it over the actual winner.

Send me a pic so I can do the same!

de Selby
30-05-2007, 19:56
so today's update is depressing. its moving forward, and progress, etc. but still, it took me five hours to do this right, and I am a bit sad about the whole affair. the reasons I did it are simple: five hours to destroy it, probably ten to fifteen hours to fix it, in exchange for ease of painting. I figure I'm going to save at least fifty hours of painting, in addition to making the whole process easier on me.

without further ado, my total carnage.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/destroyed.jpg
I'm gonna go out for a bit, I should have another up-date either later tonight or tomorrow.


Congratulations, you are now the owner of the World's Greatest Bits Box.

I've held off commenting until now because I really don't have anything original to add. You've made the right decisions so far, so I'm sure you're right to take it apart. Please continue...

pox
30-05-2007, 23:22
HAHA! you should see my actual bits box, its more of a room, really.

as it turns out, my son is going to come and see me for two months instead of his usual two weeks. this means two things.
1. my son plays warhammer, so its gonna be a pretty kick ass summer.
2. the dragon will not be finished in time for LA gamesday, so I will have to wait until next year to enter him.

with the pressure off for LA, I have also decided to game a bit more and get the nemesis crown. I'm taking a bit of a break from the dragon, I'll still have updates from time to time, but it will not be my main focus until after summer.

Pants
30-05-2007, 23:48
You'll never be able to wrench the Nemesis Crown from the Dwarfs once we recover it!

Unless you bring the dragon, then... screw it. It's yours.

pox
31-05-2007, 03:24
the dragon is only practice. the truth is, I needed something to hone my skills on, before sculpting my vermin lord. the skaven will slay your kin, feast on your flesh, and use your bones as nesting material.

the crown is ours.

THE CHIEF
31-05-2007, 09:09
the dragon is only practice. the truth is, I needed something to hone my skills on, before sculpting my vermin lord.

Crikey, you don't mess about when you 'practice' do you! :p

Harry
31-05-2007, 09:59
so today's update is depressing. its moving forward, and progress, etc. but still, it took me five hours to do this right, and I am a bit sad about the whole affair. the reasons I did it are simple: five hours to destroy it, probably ten to fifteen hours to fix it, in exchange for ease of painting. I figure I'm going to save at least fifty hours of painting, in addition to making the whole process easier on me.

without further ado, my total carnage.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/destroyed.jpg

I'm gonna go out for a bit, I should have another up-date either later tonight or tomorrow.

That must have been a tough decision.

Hang in there I am sure it will all be worth it in the end.

I am sure that everyone that has ever come across this thread is rooting for you to pull off a blinding paint job.

fleshcross
31-05-2007, 19:47
the dragon is only practice. the truth is, I needed something to hone my skills on, before sculpting my vermin lord. the skaven will slay your kin, feast on your flesh, and use your bones as nesting material.

the crown is ours.

Spoken like only a man (err, ratkin) with 12,000 points of painted Skaven can.

Baron_Konrad
01-06-2007, 01:33
I realy like those wings

Pants
01-06-2007, 06:18
I hate you so much pox. SOOO MUCH! (this is of course tongue in cheek)

rikard
02-06-2007, 09:40
Thank you Pox I have been dying to use this smily for AGES!
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g172/titan0/jawdrop.gif

:D Outstanding job here mate, the colour sceme is well chosen (I was expecting some sort of horrible cabbage green but you pulled it out the bag with this one)

pox
05-06-2007, 08:07
damn rikard, that smiley is awesome. thanks!

so now that the pressure is off for the golden daemon, I'm really enjoying painting the dragon. I wanted to see what the water dragon color scheme looked like, so I did the fish-tail.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/tailright.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/tailleft.jpg

I need to adjust my camera for color pictures, its still set for maximum macro and depth of field. the gloss coat isn't helping either, it will get a matte over the gloss, just wanted to protect it. lemme know what y'all think!

taking it apart was the best thing I did, there's just no way I could have gotten the level of detail that I did if it was still one piece.

oh, and I think I got the horns right this time, thanks to the dude that posted a link on how to do it. I was painting the horns first, then adding the color changes at the base of the horn second. your quick picture guide showed me the right way to do it. I'll look you up for my next post an' give you props.

tzeentchgiant
05-06-2007, 08:09
Looking good, looking damn good.

I was thinking maybe the horns could be lighter? But it may be that the camera washed them out with a yellowy colouration.

Other than that awesome :).

TG

Vattendroppe
05-06-2007, 09:33
Seems like the light you're using is quite yellow-ish in that pic. Could be helped out a bit by changing the cameras white balance or using a flash. Halogene lamps is also a sollution, but top of the show is sunlight :) Try to get photos when the sun's still up!

But with the exeption of a very yellow picture it looks like love. True love. Reminds me of that song from the 80's (IIRC), what ever happened to all the heroes? I think they were all consumed to give someone (pox) the skills to manage this project!

MF3000
05-06-2007, 09:50
Wo... fish tail is totally rocking!

sj

Huckbuck
05-06-2007, 14:07
Great. just plain übermegagiganticepicmotherf***inggreat!

MIGHTYPanhead
05-06-2007, 14:42
The gloss is pretty fitting on the water-tail. Are you going to keep the purple parts a bit glossy? Or matt the whole thing? I normally hate gloss finish, but it makes the purple kind-of crystaline. (also kind-of like an actual fish tail)

but, either way this should end up well. The paint looks great so far! :)

pox
05-06-2007, 16:12
its gonna be matte, with glossy parts. not sure whats gonna stay glossy, but I do love the way it makes it look fishy.

and vattendroppe comes through in the clutch yet again. I kept thinking it was a brightness issue, forgot completely about white balance. thanks again! I'm painting all day today, si I should have more (and better) pics up. thanks again for all the kind words!

Everybody
05-06-2007, 16:26
Very Very VERY nice

sir.spamalot
05-06-2007, 17:52
That is one sick tale duuude :) I think, if it's not just the picture you should lighten up the horns a little bit. they look a little yellowy.



cheers, the spam meister

Vattendroppe
05-06-2007, 19:41
they look a little yellowy.

That could be due to the lightbuld lightning, as you can see all the white areas are yellowish ;)

Franco
05-06-2007, 20:45
Cant wait for this to be finished. The fish tail thing is outstanding!!!

sLai
05-06-2007, 20:50
omg, this thread is growing by the minute, when I started to read it, it had 6 pages.. and now 10.. :O

Great work mate, althought the colour on the water part is going to clash some with the wings I think, please dont make it too colourfull, its too good for that - and you got some great painting skills aswell.

strambo
06-06-2007, 01:50
i like the fish tail

pox
06-06-2007, 05:09
yeah, I'm trying to not make it too colorful, but my main goal at this point is to have the sculpture make sense. I feel the one flaw is I did (maybe) go overboard on the chaos stuff, but I don't want to change it. my only option left was to make the paint job "explain" the model as best as possible. enough ramblin', heres better pics of the tail. (yeah, the horns are too yellow, I'll brighten them at some point.)
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/newtailR.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/newtailL.jpg

so there's that. I spent all day today painting the head, I got four good pictures. so I'll be right back!

pox
06-06-2007, 05:13
and now for the head. I wanted to have all the horns done before I put up pics, but I got at least five more hours for just the ones on his head.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/face4.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/face1.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/face2.jpg
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/face3.jpg

I pretty happy with it overall. there's still a lot of detail left to paint on it, but you can start to see some of the little detail thats hard to see in just the sculpture.

soultaker87
06-06-2007, 05:16
OMG!! he looks awsome, keep up the good work

tzeentchgiant
06-06-2007, 05:24
:eek:

From now on I think every reply Ii make in the thread will just be smilies in various states of shock :p.

Fantastic :D.

In your next photos could you maybe include a smaller mini like a warrior or space marine for scale. I know you did this for the things as a whole, but I'd like to try to get my head around the size of the components :).

TG

P.S, anyone who doesn't know should follow the link in my sig to the warseer awards, and find out what they're all about this year. It could even mean that pox's dragon gets nominated in a new category or even wins if you come along to nominate and vote for him.

pox
06-06-2007, 05:53
sure! here's a quick one with the head, I'll throw the tail in next update. (why do I feel like I'm showing pics of a crawfish boil?!?)

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/scale.jpg

I wanted it to look like the dragon could comfortably swallow a 28mm mini with no problems. thats actually where my scale reference point started.

Strelok
06-06-2007, 06:42
And people were questioning your painting... looks quite fine to me!

Vattendroppe
06-06-2007, 08:58
Personally I don't know about the fish tail horns, maybe they are a little bit to brown/yellow, but not very much IMO. Since they're supposed to be underwater they would've been miscoloured by algaes and stuff.

And I love the scale reference also!

sanctusmortis
06-06-2007, 11:38
Hghghghghgggghhhffrl.

Sorry, found jaw now. Yeah, it's coming along... :D

Rabid Bunny 666
06-06-2007, 14:46
Oh yes, i'm liking that.

McMullet
06-06-2007, 14:59
The head looks amazing, the fish tail looks better. Brilliant model.

sir.spamalot
06-06-2007, 15:01
Wow, the paint really brings out just how awesome that jaw is.....



cheers, keep up the good work:)

TeddyC
06-06-2007, 19:40
dont know if you are planning to but i think more contrast between the eyes and the rest of the head would perfect it

mousekiller
06-06-2007, 20:14
Wow, it is really coming along nicely. Without seeing the head next to the rest of the body... my first instinct is to say that I don't think the highlights on the scales are bright enough.

Great work... man you definitely have some talent.

VainEnd
07-06-2007, 00:19
I think I want to kidnap you and make you sculpt me one of them.... man that is so sweet, great paint jorb too!

pox
07-06-2007, 00:41
yeah, I'm gonna fix the scales for sure. I only had a scarlet ink to work with, and thought I could cheat. ahh well, back to doing it right. I should have an update tonight. (they need to be better highlighted, and more of a contrast with the eye color.)

N810
07-06-2007, 02:47
perhaps a little more like one of these this eyes?
http://blog.cyberworksmedia.com/bill/greenfrogredeyes_215.gifhttp://www.ericamulherin.com/Currently/random/eye.jpg

TheWarSmith
07-06-2007, 03:05
What on EARTH can i say to that? It's so rediculously good, it's just.....OMG....

That thing should cause 18" terror radius, with a -3 to check, and must be checked everytime.

natedogg710
07-06-2007, 03:17
This looked awesome when it was sculpted, it looks even more awesome with paint on it. I can't wait to see it finished, keep up the great work,

AinuLainour
07-06-2007, 03:32
As brilliant as this project is turning out to be
Don't count out Starks333

;) His advice is invaluable and would practically guarantee you the sword, methinks.

pox
07-06-2007, 06:22
what is a golden daemon team? its says in your link (and starks333) that the goal is to strengthen ties with other regional teams. who/what are the other regional teams? is this Canada only, or are there US teams?

It was my understanding that each entry had to be painted and converted by the same person. or are these "teams" just groups of people sharing info on how to win the GD?

the_dark_sarge
07-06-2007, 07:24
i hate you, you are so good at painting its not fair
only joking i dont hate you
but seriously if you do commission work you would make a mint

kieran

Harry
07-06-2007, 10:28
what is a golden daemon team? its says in your link (and starks333) that the goal is to strengthen ties with other regional teams. who/what are the other regional teams? is this Canada only, or are there US teams?

It was my understanding that each entry had to be painted and converted by the same person. or are these "teams" just groups of people sharing info on how to win the GD?

Each entry does have to be the work of one person.

There are various groups of painters who have formed 'teams' all over the world. Albert Moreto Font (last years UK slayer sword winner) is a member of the Spanish team for example.

Sometimes the members of such a team live close enough to meet and work alongside each other. Sometimes geography and time does not allow this and they share ideas and encouragement over the internet.

You don't need a team.

You've got us. :D

Team Warseer FTW!

Vattendroppe
07-06-2007, 11:39
yeah, I'm gonna fix the scales for sure. I only had a scarlet ink to work with, and thought I could cheat. ahh well, back to doing it right. I should have an update tonight. (they need to be better highlighted, and more of a contrast with the eye color.)

Whatever you do, don't overdo the highlights either! Then it will get a far too cartoonish look.

Greblord
07-06-2007, 12:48
This rocks, in Spades!

Huckbuck
07-06-2007, 15:03
Is it just me, or do you paint both better AND faster now that your aim aint the 2007 Golden Daemon?

Anyway, when I first saw your sculpting project I thought it was great. Lets call that first greatness X. When the sculpting was done the greatness was ecuall to X*X*X. Lets call the second greatness Z. When I saw the wings painted the greatness was rised to Z*X+(Z-X). Lets call this greatness Y. Then now, when I saw the tail and head painted the greatness is ecuall to Y multiplied by all the other greatness (X*Z*Y).

Now when you know that X*0.7 is what I consider my painting and sculpting skill, while Eavy Metal is about Z - 3X you understand how much I am inlove with this dragon.

madd0ct0r
07-06-2007, 17:38
wahhh - algebra

It's coming together - keep it up, it's looking better and better.

pox
07-06-2007, 22:30
you nailed it huckbuck, now that the pressure is off, and I don't feel I'm doing it for anyone but me, its more relaxing and fun. I was gonna bang out a dwarf army monday and tuesday, but decided to just paint the dragon.

ok, so this is my GD deamon team,(or non-GD team for right now) I suppose. harry, your damn near off the team for uttering the phrase "for the win." your on the bench.:)
vattendroppe is my camera guy, and all around advise giver. mousekiller is the coach, cause he's got a playbook I can read. huckbuck is the math guy, and gets bonus points for calling me to task when something doesn't look right. (I still need to fix those claws.) the warsmith gets mention, for when we show our true rat selves and have the deathmaster kill my dragon in one round. (I once dropped a high elf dragon with him.)

wow, its like the bad news bears of GD teams.

everyone else that has supported me, all the kind words, and all the insightful criticisms have got me this far, I would not have finished this if I had not peen doing a WiP thread here on warseer.

as for winning the golden daemon, I hope to get one. I wont this year, and If I enter next year, it wont be with this model. (well, he's still gonna get entered, he just wont be the one I'm banking on.) over the course of sculpting him, I learned a ton. there are flaws starting to show on the dragon, which I will fix on the next one. I also decided to go to school because of this, and that can only help. as for painting him, my skill has gone up leaps and bounds, but it still may not be enough. it is my opinion that the open category is the hardest to win, you never know what the competition is gonna bring. so I'll get better, and one day MAYBE win. that is not my goal however, just a nice bonus. my goal is to sculpt professionally, sometime within the next five years. I'll see how it pans out.

ok, enough of the chatter, back to the model.

@N810: wow, those are nice. I was going for more of a snake eye, I think the major flaw was having the scales too close in color to the eye. I'm working on the scales today, and I'll get close up pics of the eye and see what y'all think.

@mousekiller/vattendroppe: ok, so highlight the scales, but not so much they look cartoony. check.

@everyone hating me, trying to kill me, wanting to kidnap me: I live in northern california, in a small town called "chico." you can find me at the local game store, or cooking at nash's. bring an army for: fantasy /confrontation /warmachine /40k /hordes /battletech /warmaster /necromunda /middenhiem /battle fleet gothic /blood bowl /"tell me the name of game and I'll buy it", at any points, and lets play. "can't we all just get along?" :)

@AinuLainour/starks333: I'm a very tactile person, I need to see it for it to make sense. I can follow a painting guide, but I don't know the lingo enough for what starks says to make sense. maybe after a bit of art schooling, we shall see. I looked around your sight, and could not find a guide with pictures. If you have one, I would love the link.
As I've said before, that style is more suited for non-GW games, and is not my preferred style. I'm more of a Mike McVey/mousekiller kind of guy, rather then a vincent fontaine/ martin grandbarbe kind of guy.
as my skill in painting grows, It will get better by trying different techniques, and I plan on doing just that. (I even have a alchemists of dirz army ready to paint.) I just don't want to try and learn a new one for this model.

Harry
07-06-2007, 23:51
Ohhhhh! I was nearly in the starting five. On the bench again. Me and my big mouth.

FTW actually stands for ...errmmm....Fantasy Tzeentch Wyrm.

pox
08-06-2007, 07:01
ok, got his head all cleaned up. I highlighted his tongue a bit, I kinda wanted to show off the texture a bit more. I also added the gums to the four small horns he has on either side of his mouth.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/mouth.jpg

next up, I cleaned up his eyes. I went for a more yellow look to set it apart from the scales, and went for smaller pupils, with just a hint of purple for irises. I also got his small ram horns done, along with the three front horns.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/side-3.jpg

finally, I got all the scales done on the rest of the neck. all I need now is to paint the skin texture on the bottom,(along with the weapons jabbed in him) then I can complete his horns.
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n109/conversionman/top-1.jpg

I really like how it came out, let me know what you guys think.

Kotobuki
08-06-2007, 07:48
Holy christ, that thing is frightening. I love it.

The Keeper of Secrets
08-06-2007, 08:22
That's increadable!

You deserve worship.

Yohn
08-06-2007, 10:15
Maybe, it is just me... but I think that the hornes/tusks should be removed from the dragon so you can se more of the head. Maybe bigger teethes on the bottom of the mouth? Hmmmm just my opinion.

Jokre
08-06-2007, 10:36
AAAAAAKKKKKK!

Why are you so gooooood!

:cries:

tzeentchgiant
08-06-2007, 10:47
Yowza!

That looks awesome, and only about half of the horn portion of it is done.... it's gonna be one hellovahead.

TG

P.S, check out the warseer forum awards (link in my sig), find out what they're about and how you can contribute :).

Braad
08-06-2007, 10:55
You must be a divine creature...

sir.spamalot
08-06-2007, 14:50
Gah! that thing is bloody amazing!

Hywel
08-06-2007, 15:31
Excellent work there pox.

However, might I suggest you make the teeth look a little more... "dirty" or certainly used. Maybe its the photo but that chap looks like he flosses daily. :p

It's very well painted, it's more the 'feel' I'm on about here. I feel entirely inadequate to be a critic.

polomarko888
08-06-2007, 15:39
keep going this dragon is accccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccce


one day i shall paint like you dammit!

Endemion
08-06-2007, 15:45
Really good blending, and the sculpting looks fantastic now the details can be seen

Huckbuck
08-06-2007, 20:29
As you allready know I like this dragon I wont spend anytime kissing ass. Eventhough asskissing can be nice since people appreciate it and keeps them motivated it leaves a bad taste. I think the head of the dragon has improved to the better, but there is some things I think you should look at an maybe improve. The horns and theeth looks to clean and cartoony as Hywel said and Im not sure how you like to do it, but some drybrushes and/or whashing could do it. The pupils could use a little bit work, I think they should be a little bit thicker in the middle so they have more of an oval shape, not sure if the pic do the eyes justice, but atleast look into it. Even though the tongue and the gums looks good they could be improved with highlights or shades.

All o' this is small things, but I want your dragon to be as good as possible and I want to help you in the progress so that is my 2 cents. (Well, more then 2, about 5 or 6)

Franco
09-06-2007, 14:03
It is getting on really well. Have you thought about putting gloss varnish on the tongue and gums. It gives it a wet feeling!!!

Saulot
10-06-2007, 17:07
You should call your dragon FOUR EYES! (hehehe kidding!)

Anyway, I really like your model now that it has some paint on
it. The details just popped from nowhere! Awesome testament to your sculpting skills! As for the color, going a little muted and "dirty" would improve it vastly, IMHO.

GREAT JOB!!!

PLEASE KEEP IT UP!!!

:D

The Keeper of Secrets
10-06-2007, 18:06
Anyway, I really like your model now that it has some paint on
it.

You mean you didn't like it before?

*pulls out sledgehammer*

:skull: :D

sir.spamalot
10-06-2007, 18:19
*Loads bolter* :chrome:


;)

Starks333
10-06-2007, 19:21
alright ill try and explain a bit better for you then, hopefully it will help out

glazes and washes are very thin paint, you apply them in layers to shade or blend...washes are for shading(you pull a wash from lightest to darkest leaving the majority of pigment in the darkest), glazing is to smooth blends, so you can apply them from side to side, or however needed

you apply several layers of the same colour in an area, gradually covering less ground with each, by doing this you are gradually blending with each mix of colour, so after say 5 mixes of colour and 5-6 layers each mix, you have a much smoother result and gradient than if you only do 1 or 2 layers of each mix
***(5-6 layers if using many mixes or 15-20 if using fewer mixes) many being if you use black primer, you need to use more mixes usually because you have less raange in your colours(so for skin id probably have to use something like 8 mixes)...fewer mixes if you start with a white primer and can get more range from each(for skin i can use 4-5 mixes and get a great result)

as for actual colour, desaturated means dull, less intense(think european style), saturated means brighter more intense(think cartoony) they can be used together in harmony....on your model, because theres so much action, desaturated colours would allow you to prevent seisures from overexcitement

for example, the tail: you have bright purple, bright green, and a grey that is grayscale(...if you want the purple to stand out, try dulling the green and the grey, if you want the green to stand out, dull the grey, and the contrast from the green and purple will make the green stand out(because its naturally brighter)

there are several ways to desaturate:

add a complimentary colour
add white or black
add grey of same or similiar value(brightness)
adding brown will also kinda desaturate

for mixing shades, because black changes your colour by desaturating you are instead left with these options:

purple, blue, brown, or a compliment(in some cases)...for example add red to green or blue for shading, or green or purple to red, purple to yellow, blue/red/purple to orange etc

for highlights adding some yellow will help warm a colour up, so using bronzed flesh adds a sunlight feel to it....while using offwhites(sometimes in addition to yellows) will help brighten the overall colour without desaturating like white would do

the problem i have seen is you usually dont highlight bright enough, which is most peoples problem(including my own) go all the way up to a creamy colour or white in light, and all the way to a dark colour(the shade of a dark brown or black) in shadows....its the transition that creates the depth, right now its your sculpting job thats creating the depth, not your paint

while you are trying to use colours for symbolism throughout the model you have to use a few colours in your palette to unify the scheme, right now ive already seen, purple, yellow(the yellowy brown) red and green, you also had orange, which is closing in to all the main colours, which is always going to result in a busy appearence when its all together

pick 3 main colours(orange, red, purple, blue, green and yellow) and then start using others like browns, desaturated versions of colours, greys, etc, this way you wont be as likely to overdo the model and you can use colours and contrasts to exentuate certain spots over others(which will be key for this model in my opinion)

PS the teams are groups of like minded painters interested in improving their abilities, our site is for all of canada, while there are many smaller groups within it(like montreal, toronto, maritimes etc) the spanish and french have them as well, and it is oone of the biggest reasons for their growth and success(TeamToulouse, Spanish-Team)



Starks

Vladimir Deathblade
10-06-2007, 19:22
That is quite francly, increadable!

tzeentchgiant
10-06-2007, 20:39
[snip]

StarksExcellent post, very useful :).

TG

P.S, the forum awards category nominations thread closes tonight, if you have any suggestions follow the link in my sig and put them up :). The award nomination process starts tomorrow!

pox
11-06-2007, 00:25
I'm just stuck on these painting teams. I've been wargamming for about 14 years now, and have not heard of them! its like a sub-culture in an already tiny sub-culture. how successful are these teams? do they sweep the the GD contests? do members pit themselves against other members, or are the contests divided up?

is there ever any espionage? is bad advise given so as to goof up the fella next to you?

how many bronze/silver/gold deamons has the Canadian team won? and haw many have you won starks333?

sorry for all the questions, this is just riveting. It's very rare that I'm surpirsed anymore, especially in my own hobby. :)

AinuLainour
11-06-2007, 05:37
Basically, it seemed like the right time to tie Canada's miniature painting community together and I figured that I could help accelerate the process set in motion by Team Montreal and Team Toronto and basically created a free Phb forum on the topic of a nationwide team (that soon turned into a small regional teams scattered across the country) to see if it would generate, well, interest. And it did so I bought the site to make it official and a forum member (Mason) created the logo! :)

So it's fairly new, and most of the teams are just getting off the ground, though Team Montreal is 2 years old (so aren't altogether affiliated with the other regionals in the same respect), and won a grand total of thirteen awards at this years GD, while Team Toronto won around seven or eight (note: exact number is an educated guess.

Well that was sort of a half-assed explanation, but I hope it helped.

Oh, and Starks didn't come to this years GD because he wanted to 'make sure that he would clean up' at next years show.

Harry
11-06-2007, 07:13
The spanish and French Teams have been pretty succesful as well. AND they travel. So they are becoming succesful in the UK, US and Canadian Games days.

I interviewed Albert Moreto Font (a member of the Spanish team, winner of UK slayer sword this year) in the Watchman. (ezine on this forum) I asked him a little about the Spanish team in there.

I think they are mostly just groups of skilled painters who share ideas and techniques. At the end of the day they are out to win for themselves but as they all benifit from sharing ideas and techniques they don't mind helping each other out.

From what I saw myself the rest of the Spanish team were genuinely delighted when Albert won.
(They may secretly be sharpenning the knives but I don't think so. I imagine it just spurs them on to try harder to out do each other).

I have no idea if there is a US team. However there are a couple of members on this site from the US who have won dozens of statues.
There is also a great site (sorry not very good at the linky thing) Ill find it and PM you) which lists all the winners and their nationalities and often contact information for them. I don't believe if you contacted any of these painters and shared your project with them that any of them would not offer help and advice or would 'try and put you wrong' to improve their chances. (They might not bother entering the monster catagory in your GD however.:D)

Warwolt the skaven
11-06-2007, 08:32
Maybe, it is just me... but I think that the hornes/tusks should be removed from the dragon so you can se more of the head. Maybe bigger teethes on the bottom of the mouth? Hmmmm just my opinion.

HERETIC :evilgrin:

IheartTau
12-06-2007, 01:32
the dragon is only practice. the truth is, I needed something to hone my skills on, before sculpting my vermin lord. the skaven will slay your kin, feast on your flesh, and use your bones as nesting material.

the crown is ours.Practice.... Practice... pra... Can not compute...

Saulot
12-06-2007, 03:04
You mean you didn't like it before?

*pulls out sledgehammer*

:skull: :D


*Loads bolter* :chrome:




hahaha!
That's not what I meant!!! I mean, it was awesome before, but now it's AWESOME!!!

*pulls a sword and does harakiri for offending the great pox-dragon*

:angel:

Starks333
12-06-2007, 21:20
Basically, it seemed like the right time to tie Canada's miniature painting community together and I figured that I could help accelerate the process set in motion by Team Montreal and Team Toronto and basically created a free Phb forum on the topic of a nationwide team (that soon turned into a small regional teams scattered across the country) to see if it would generate, well, interest. And it did so I bought the site to make it official and a forum member (Mason) created the logo! :)

So it's fairly new, and most of the teams are just getting off the ground, though Team Montreal is 2 years old (so aren't altogether affiliated with the other regionals in the same respect), and won a grand total of thirteen awards at this years GD, while Team Toronto won around seven or eight (note: exact number is an educated guess.

Well that was sort of a half-assed explanation, but I hope it helped.

Oh, and Starks didn't come to this years GD because he wanted to 'make sure that he would clean up' at next years show.

:P always taking pot shots at me Ainu.... hahaha, that and i couldnt afford it, i will be in chicago this year however, unless something goes horribly wrong, and that will be my first GD

the purpose of a team is simple:

-to help everyone within the group learn and grow
-to provide some friendly competition of a higher caliber(in some cases) or motivation
-to be able to have enough knowledge to help others learn about it all

while "team canada" is less an actual team and more a spot for all canadians(and non canadians as well) with interest in learning to go and talk, post etc... there are far more established teams in smaller areas, like montreal and toulouse, who have more knowledge, more experience, and more awards

as to espionage, maybe now and then, but it would be playful work in my opinion.... :D

its usually done or created with good intentions(teams)

maybe ill paint tonight....*thinks* :P

good luck! trying new things is always a step up, no matter how high or how small, and no matter the result

Starks

pox
12-06-2007, 23:11
yeah, all that seems to make sense. Its not that I don't want to win, but I'm starting to have a more realistic approach to painting, and learning that I probably wont win.
basically, if I want to get my skills to GD caliber, it may take more time then I'm willing to do. at this point, I just want to finish the dragon, and move on to the next sculpt. its in sculpting I find the most enjoyment, and time spent learning to paint is time spent lost on sculpting.

add to that the fact that I can no longer attend gamesday this year, and will have something cooler for next year, so I just want to finish it at the quality its at.

keep coming with all the suggestions. even accepting that I might not get good enough for GD, my skill in painting has at least doubled in the time I've spent painting the dragon. I know new techniques, understand color theory better, have greater brush control, and tons more painting patience.
plus, its become relaxing for me to paint, and I never thought that would ever happen. all in all this has been a great experience, its just taken longer then I wanted.

ReclecteR
14-06-2007, 13:03
:eek: :eek: Holy Mother of... Sweet God of... That thing is amazing!:eek: :eek:

I dont know what you mean by your painting being not GD standard. It is certainly close. Can we get a link to the log if it still being sculpted? Keep it up!!

RavenMad
16-06-2007, 04:56
It's all been said already but this looks very nice. Great job both sculpting and painting!

the_dark_sarge
16-06-2007, 07:33
umm pox i hate to break this to you but if you enter this dragon at next years GD with a decent paint job i say it would definetly take the cake in Open
and if your lucky you might even get a shot at the slayer sword
seriously that dragon rocks
keep it up

kieran

Bra'tac
17-06-2007, 10:13
:eek: Keep up the good work, but please hurry i want to see it finished ;)

Endemion
17-06-2007, 11:20
Nah, this isn't a project to be rushed, take your time and do it justice

pox
17-06-2007, 23:20
thanks for all the kind words, at this point I'm taking all the time I need. I just can't work on it for a while, so the updates for the next two months are going to be few and far between. after that it should speed up, with august being a big month for it.
(I'm taking two extra days off for three weeks before school starts, so I'll be painting it four days a week, all day long, for three weeks strait.)

tempelaars24
22-06-2007, 15:28
Hey Pox, firstly id like to say your doing an awsome job here!

i first found your thread whilst researching sculpting in my holiday's. Im doing a degree in visual arts, and i dont think that they are covering sculpting, and im looking to get a job at weta workshop... in New Zealand (the bunch that did all the effects for Lord of the Rings) whilst im majoring in Animation, weta are known for using their staff on different projects, so i thought id research some sculpting as this would also come in handy with modeling in Maya etc.
wow that was a slightly unessasary rant, any how. During my first semester i did a photography paper and learnt a few thigns that you may benifit from.
i think the main problem with your 1st camera was not the camera it self rather depth of field. the camera aproximatly blurs 1/3 infront and 2/3 beind the focus of your image. In other words the minature you were taking a picture of was probably too close. that being said, depth of field is an ansome way to show detail

For what ever reason im having trouble posting pics to illustrate what i mean exatly. Now the shutter speed adjust how much light is let into the camera and for howlong. so if you were taking pictures of stuff that is moving this would be important, but in your case it is relativly useless except for getting a corect exposure that is. It is the aperature that you need to worry about. A low aperature gives a larger area a crisp clean look. A larger f-stop will narrow the depth of field.

I dont want to get to get too technical about the whole thing. I just hope that this info may help you develop the images you seek. One other thing i could suggest is to do a bit of set up and thinking about what exatly it is you want from the image. Some times you can get some real nice shots from abit of planning, and some of my class mates have used depth of field with great effect to show the detail on an object whilst the fore and backgrounds stay's blurred.

anyway's i hope that helps you out some /shrug

pox
22-06-2007, 23:31
wow, its nice to see more camera stuff, technical help is always welcome! my old camera had no adjustable iso speed, f-stop, or aperature. the first things I looked for with my new one, and its doing a lot better. my only problem is getting good depth of field, but I figured it was more of the sculpture being all white, and it would get better contrast once it was painted. time will tell.

oh, and I am a horror movie buff, occasional gore effects guy on low budget films, and all around lover of all things that splatter. because of this, I'm more of a fan of earlier weta pictures. (god, dead alive is near perfection for horror/comedy. they did a rom/zom/com about 15 years before shaun of the dead. not to mention bad taste or meet the feebles.)

how the hell did they get the budget to do lord of the rings? pure genius.