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KingGato
05-05-2007, 06:36
Hi, I have a question reguarding the Warrior Priest/Arch Lector prayer Hammer of Sigmar. I understand that it would allow, say, a Swordsman to reroll his to hits and to wounds, and a Marksman would get those lovely rerolls with his gun. But how much further than that does it go? If cast on a mage, would he get to reroll to wound for his magic missiles?

Does it go even FURTHER?!

When an Engineer is attached to a Helblaster, it uses his ballistic skill, sort of like it is a giant super-duper gun he is firing. If he had Hammer of Sigmar on him, would he get to reroll the shots of the volley gun?

These are the things I need to know.

sds661
05-05-2007, 11:41
I recall a thread several months back where these issues were discussed. I think the consensus was that it could be used in these ways. Personally I will only ever use it for HtH attacks, as that is how I think it was meant to be used, but I couldn't argue too convincingly against the other uses you mention.

KingGato
05-05-2007, 18:50
Oh, I tried to find a thread about this subject but I had trouble working the search function.

I don't know about that being the only way it was intended to be used, necessarily. After all, it wouldn't have been difficult to add "in close combat" to the wording.

So, it can be used in that manner? If so it would almost give me a personal justification for taking an Engineer once.

Falkman
05-05-2007, 18:57
Well, in the case of the engineer and warmachine, the engineer does not fire the warmachine himself, it simply uses the highest BS in the unit, so there you would not get to re-roll the wounds caused.
On a mage however, it is completely legal, and something I used to great success against a friend :D

KingGato
05-05-2007, 19:15
Hrm, that is a good point. The implication does seem to be that yes, it's the engineer firing the machine, but the way its worded it also seems to imply the machine is just using th engineer's ballistic skill.

And on further thought, I'm not even sure how worth it that trick would be. It would be what, a 65 point, hero slot using upgrade to the Hellblaster? Eh.

Are you sure it's legal with the Wizard? Frankly that was the possibility I was less inclined to think was true.

Falkman
05-05-2007, 19:17
It's legal with the wizard if you go by the rules, yes.
It let's a character or champion re-roll all to wound rolls, it does not give any restrictions as to what kind of to wound rolls it would affect (cc, magic, shooting etc) so we must assume it allows you to re-roll ALL to wound rolls.

KingGato
05-05-2007, 21:04
I suppose that does make sense...if it allows rerolls with ranged weapons, logically it would make sense that it allows rerolls with magic missiles.

lparigi34
05-05-2007, 23:31
...On a mage however, it is completely legal, and something I used to great success against a friend :D

Is he still your friend? :p

Falkman
06-05-2007, 08:55
Of course he is, it was only a game for fun, and we followed the rules, so why shouldn't he?

KingGato: It works on all kinds of damaging magics, not just magic missiles.
I used it on Conflagration of Doom against a unit of night gobbos, burned around 20 of the buggers with a single spell :evilgrin:

ZomboCom
06-05-2007, 12:57
Of course he is, it was only a game for fun, and we followed the rules, so why shouldn't he?

Because an army with 10 rattling guns follows the rules.

Because an army with 200 skinks follows the rules.

Because an army with 14 power dice follows the rules.

Following the rules is no indication of having fun.

Atrahasis
06-05-2007, 15:59
None of the examples you give are an indication of not having fun either :)

Falkman
06-05-2007, 16:55
And using Hammer of Sigmar on a wizard hardly qualifies as cheesy or boring either.

Greyfire
06-05-2007, 18:07
Because an army with 200 skinks follows the rules.

Now, that's not very fair. :( Dropping that many skinks (1200 pts worth) can be great fun - for my opponent as he stomps through unit after unit, overrunning into them over and over again without me getting a chance to shoot them because there's not enough table for all of them.

Actually, I think I might be the one to not enjoy being spanked like that.

Except for the expression on my opponents face when I drop over a hundred figures on the table - that can be pure joy! :) (Especially when it's a skaven army that figures he's got me on numbers.)

For the record, with a skink heavy army like that my record is about 1 win in 3. Chaos spanks the army easily and I know I'm deadmeat by round 3. A dwarf slayer army is dead by round 3. Either way, my opponents and I have had fun playing these kinds of games. Fun is in the dice of the roller, I guess. :D

-=- Greyfire

Deathwatch
07-05-2007, 19:08
And using Hammer of Sigmar on a wizard hardly qualifies as cheesy or boring either.

It's not very fluffy is it? I mean the only Hammer of Sigmar that a warrior rpiest would use on a wizard is a big metal one!:D

KingGato
07-05-2007, 19:13
Haha, well said! But, combined armed and all that. If even witch hunters freely recruit sanctioned wizards to aid them against the dark forces, I doubt a well-reasoned warrior priest would have too much trouble working with a loyal mage against the foes of the great Empire.

Sanjuro
07-05-2007, 20:48
I think there should be a special rule for this, akin to the rule for Commissars in 40k.

If a Wizard is in the same unit as a Warrior Priest and suffers a miscast, remove the model immediately as a casualty (i.e. after you roll double 1s and before you roll on the miscast table). The Warrior Priest steps up and smashes the poor Wizard's skull in, 'for his own best'.

Atrahasis
07-05-2007, 20:53
I don't know where the idea that WPs hate all wizards comes from - the colleges of magic were established by a Champion of Sigmar for Sigmar's sake!

Sanjuro
07-05-2007, 21:23
Well, the WP wouldn't need to hate Wizards in my example - it's just a matter of protecting them from the influences of Chaos! Like you would do with any good friend.

druchii
09-05-2007, 05:02
It's not very fluffy is it? I mean the only Hammer of Sigmar that a warrior rpiest would use on a wizard is a big metal one!:D

Sorry, where in the Empire "fluff" does it intone that this would be "unfluffy?"

I think you're confusing "I want it to be this way" and "it actually is".

As to the thread: While I'm not 100% sure on the wording of the rule, unless it somehow excludes magic missiles, etc, from its rulings, I don't see how we can say it doesn't (and indeed SHOULDN'T) effect that sort of thing.

d

Jonke
09-05-2007, 19:02
Pure speculation follows: When striking someone in close combat or shooting with a normal weapon it is the model striking/shooting who is the subject. Thus he may benefit from re-rolls caused by spells/prayers cast on him.

When casting a damage-doing spell on the other hand it is the spell wich is the subject doing damage. Thus a spell/prayer cast on the wizard does not influence the damage done by spells cast by him.

Peace!

Atrahasis
09-05-2007, 19:08
Pure speculation follows: When striking someone in close combat or shooting with a normal weapon it is the model striking/shooting who is the subject. Thus he may benefit from re-rolls caused by spells/prayers cast on him.

When casting a damage-doing spell on the other hand it is the spell wich is the subject doing damage. Thus a spell/prayer cast on the wizard does not influence the damage done by spells cast by him.

Peace!

Yeah, pure speculation is right :)

Jonke
09-05-2007, 19:18
Yeah, pure speculation is right :)

I.e. wrong? And totally stupid? :)

Atrahasis
09-05-2007, 19:25
You would be just as well arguing that it isn't the character wounding in combat, its his sword ;)

Baindread
09-05-2007, 23:32
You would be just as well arguing that it isn't the character wounding in combat, its his sword ;)

And you don't want to take credit away from the swordspirits. They can be real bastards about it, breaking your sword mid-combat.

TheDarkDaff
10-05-2007, 07:29
I don't know where the idea that WPs hate all wizards comes from - the colleges of magic were established by a Champion of Sigmar for Sigmar's sake!

I didn't realise Teclis was a champion of sigmar. I guess we can look forward to seeing him in the next Empire book.:p

Atrahasis
10-05-2007, 07:58
I didn't realise Teclis was a champion of sigmar. I guess we can look forward to seeing him in the next Empire book.:p

Magnus the Pius founded the Colleges of Magic, Teclis was merely the founding teacher :)

Falkman
10-05-2007, 14:51
Exactly, Atrahasis has it right.
Teclis did help to teach the first human mages, true, but the Colleges of Magic were founded by Magnus.