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Lady's Champion
05-08-2005, 20:07
If there is a Daemon Prince in an army, and an Exalted Champion, is it allowed for the champion to be the General to make a mortal list? I didn't think so, but someone fielded this today. Surely the higher leadership Daemon Prince has to be General, and he would have to field a Daemon list?

taer
05-08-2005, 23:57
Yes, the higher leadership character must be the general of the army, and for chaos this is a very important thing to consider as the general determines the army type.

PelsBoble
06-08-2005, 00:33
Yes the only way you get to field a deamon prince in a mortal army is to give him the master of mortals gift which makes him a mortal general.

Edit: Unless you play a big game and you have 2 lord choices avalable and you could chose to have your regualr chaos lord be the general

Lady's Champion
06-08-2005, 09:31
No this was 2000p

Grr now I'm mad- although it meant his general was only a hero...

Tarax
07-08-2005, 18:59
I don't think so. As I read it you first decide who your general will be (Mortal, Deamon or Beast), which will affect your Core and Special choices.

If you want to field a Mortal army with a Deamon character, a Mortal character will still be the general, even though the Deamon Ld may be higher.

It may just be that Chaos is another exception to the rule where the character with the highest Ld is your general.

Avian
07-08-2005, 19:38
If you want to field a Mortal army with a Deamon character, a Mortal character will still be the general, even though the Deamon Ld may be higher.

It may just be that Chaos is another exception to the rule where the character with the highest Ld is your general.
Incorrect, no exception is listed.
If you want to have a Mortal army, make sure your General (ie. the character with the highest Ld) is either a Mortal or has the Master of Mortals gift.
Common mistake, though.

Tarax
11-08-2005, 10:39
Incorrect, no exception is listed.
If you want to have a Mortal army, make sure your General (ie. the character with the highest Ld) is either a Mortal or has the Master of Mortals gift.
Common mistake, though.

I thought that the character with the highest Ld of the kind you want your army to be (ie Mortal, Beat or Deamon) was to be the General.

Is there any rule, Q&A or FAQ which underlines your statement?

Festus
11-08-2005, 11:10
IMO the general rules don't apply with HoC, thus the Character of the chosen category (mortal or daemonic) with the highest Ld has to be the general.

cf. p. 55 HoC

Greetings
Festus

athamas
11-08-2005, 11:12
the guy with the highest Ld is your general... thus as PelsBoble said, unless you have 2 lords, the deamon prince must be the general!

TeddyC
11-08-2005, 11:32
Yea thats about right. you chose your army around your general in the chaos case (because it is such a deciding factor on what can be taken).
Its like having the best of both worlds.

So if you have a daemon and a mortal hero the rules state that the highest LD must be the general. The Daemon.

Avian
11-08-2005, 11:50
I thought that the character with the highest Ld of the kind you want your army to be (ie Mortal, Beat or Deamon) was to be the General.
An army's general is the character with the highest leadership. There are exceptions, such as a Hunter not being allowed to be the General of an ogre army, but in those cases exceptions are listed. The chaos list has no such exceptions.

And would a Bloodthirster follow a mere Exalted Champion? I think not.

Enazel
11-08-2005, 11:54
wrong, in FAQ, it states that the highest LD character as to be your general in Chaos. Which means you can't have a Greater daemon at 2000 pts in a mortal army. Daemon Prince, just takes master of mortals and it sorted.

Neknoh
11-08-2005, 12:57
IMO the general rules don't apply with HoC, thus the Character of the chosen category (mortal or daemonic) with the highest Ld has to be the general.

cf. p. 55 HoC

Greetings
Festus

IIRC, that page specifikally says that you use the NORMAL way described on page ... of the BrB to decide your general.

Meaning your general HAS to bee the character with the highest Ld.

This is also very nice, enabling you to field an Exalted Champion whilst using either a Great Bray or a Beastlord in your army as well... whilst still having a Mortal Army due to the Exalted and Beastlord having the same Ld, in which case, you are allowed to choose

Festus
11-08-2005, 13:11
Hi

wrong, in FAQ, it states that the highest LD character as to be your general in Chaos. Which means you can't have a Greater daemon at 2000 pts in a mortal army. Daemon Prince, just takes master of mortals and it sorted.
And in which FAQ is this supposed to be?

Certainly not here, no?
http://uk.games-workshop.com/chronicles/faq/assets/warhammer-faq.pdf

Greetings
FEstus

Festus
11-08-2005, 13:12
Hi

IIRC, that page specifikally says that you use the NORMAL way described on page ... of the BrB to decide your general.

Negative: No such wording on p.55.
On the contary it states that you first have to choose whether your General will be daemonic or mortal.

On the same page it also says that you nominate a character of yours to be your general, no restrictions given whatsoever. ... :confused: ;)

Greetings
Festus

peteratwar
12-08-2005, 08:08
Nothing in the HoC book goes against the standard rule of the model with the highest leadership must be your general.

If you look at the Lords/Heroes and their respective leaderships you will see that in practice (except under starnge circumstances!) this will still hold good regardless.

In 2 K you can only get 1 Lord. Both Mortal and Daemonic have the same LD of 9. The exception is the Exalted Sorceror who has 8
If you look at the Heroes again you have equal LD of 8. It is therefore possible to have an Exalted Daemon and an Exalted Champion and choose either as General depending on what you wanted to do

The problem might be if you had a Daemonic Lord (Ld 9) but tried to make your army mortal with an Exalted Champion as General (Ld 8) This, given the basic rule re highest LD as general, would be in my view incorrect as this rule has not been overruled by anything in the HoC book. You would, as has been said, have to give the Lord the daemonic Gift allowing a mortal army.

Festus
12-08-2005, 11:11
Hi

The HoC book does overrule the normal rules: I can only repeatedly point you to p. 55.

There it says that you first choose your General to be a Daemon (i.e. having the special rule Daemonic), or a Mortal (i.e. not having the rule).

Then you go on picking your army.

Taken literally, this even means that ANY character in your army may be your general, but this seems to be stretching it a little :)

Greetings
Festus

peteratwar
12-08-2005, 12:06
Read it and do not agree with your interpretation.

Festus
12-08-2005, 12:33
Hi

May I ask why?

The second paragraph of the bit about the general (a text which is missing from all other army books) in German says (translation mine, as always):

First you choose whether your army's general shall be mortal or daemonic.

To me this is very clear and concise.

Greetings
Festus

peteratwar
12-08-2005, 12:42
Don't disagree with that. I disagree with the effect that, say, you chose mortal, you could have a Daemon Prince as a Lord whilst you have an Exalted Champion trying to be your general. This contradicts the BRB in having as general the character with the highest leadership. The BRB makes no provision for a character with a lower leadership being the general nor does the HoC book.

Contrast with the HE book and IaC provisions

You are still entitled to decide whether or not to have a mortal or daemonic general but it does not allow the general to have a lower leadership than any other character.

Lord of the Pit
12-08-2005, 13:35
The basic rule is as follows(BRB p102): "The General of your army is always the character with the highest Leadership value. If several characters have the same value, then choose one to be the General."

As long as nothing directly contradicts this, this is the rule in force.

The there is the passage in HoC, page 55: "The character you nominate as your General is very important with a Chaos army. This is because he affects what other characters and units you can have in the rest of your army."

And further..

"Firstly you must decide if you General is Mortal or Daemonic."

further..

"If the General is Mortal then the Mortal units count as Core choices..." etc.

Nothing here contradicts the general rule at the top. If you put it in context it is clear that the passages are there to explain what happens to the army composition with different generals. Nothing more.

Lady's Champion
12-08-2005, 14:07
I am mad with rage now lol

Markconz
13-08-2005, 02:03
In a campaign I am playing I have a Chaos Sorcerer and an Exalted Daemon as my characters. Both have Ld8 and I use the Chaos Sorceror as my general, as I have a unit of ogre bulls as DOW and lots of mortal choices. If I gave the Chaos Sorceror Chalice of Chaos would he count as a daemonic or mortal general?

taer
13-08-2005, 07:54
Daemonic general as per the rules for the chalise. You are the one who nominated the sorcerer as your general.


However, I've seen it listed on Army builder that a sorcerer may not be the general unless the only other characters present are Asp. champs. WTF mate?

athamas
13-08-2005, 08:31
as per the rules on page 59

'Aspiring champions and sorcerers cannot be the general if any other type of character is present'

Markconz
13-08-2005, 23:34
as per the rules on page 59

'Aspiring champions and sorcerers cannot be the general if any other type of character is present'


Ah well that solves that problem then! Thanks!

Actually I have been using an exalted champion as the general but was going to ditch him and just use the sorceror for the next game... but I'm going to have to do some significant reworking now :( Master of Mortals for the Daemon and chaos ogres or minotaurs instead of bulls...

MarcoPollo
03-10-2005, 18:20
If this is the case, then I suppose that I could take a beast lord (ld 8) and an exalted champion (ld 8) and use the Exalted Champion as the general while still being able to ambush with the beast lord?

Sounds kinda flimsy to me.

NakedFisherman
03-10-2005, 18:53
If this is the case, then I suppose that I could take a beast lord (ld 8) and an exalted champion (ld 8) and use the Exalted Champion as the general while still being able to ambush with the beast lord?

Sounds kinda flimsy to me.

No, the Beastlord must be the General.

Flame
03-10-2005, 19:48
He doesnt have to be the general, its just that if you want to ambush he must. (because hes got the brayhorn)

Drunken Rico
19-10-2005, 20:55
So, if I have a Mortal general, what do Beasts count as ?

Izram
19-10-2005, 20:59
special. Mortals beasts and daemons are all special. If a general is one of the three it makes that one core. Thats the easiest way of thinking about it (i think).

Yanos
20-10-2005, 07:32
I don't have the book in front of me (damn workplace regulations), so I'm going with the (consistent) quotes that others have given.


"Firstly you must decide if your General is Mortal or Daemonic."

It says General, rather than Random Character (though that wouldn't read very well). You could therefore equally well read this as "Firstly you must decide if your Character With The Highest Ld is Mortal or Daemonic".

This of course if my take only, I'm sure such a way of reading things could be abused in many other circumstances. What I'm getting at is I don't see how this allows Chaos players to circumvent the normal rules of Generalship.

T10
20-10-2005, 08:54
There isn't some sequence to army-building that allows you to circumvent restrictions.

For example, a Shaggoth will not fight for a Daemonic general. You cannot first take a Mortal champion as a general, then take a Shaggoth and then turn the Mortal champion into a Daemonic general and still keep the Shaggoth. :rolleyes:

-T10

Sinew
20-10-2005, 10:48
I copied the following from the Q&A thread on the Forums (warhammer section) on the UK GW site:

While we are at it, can you also please confirm that a Mortal Hordes of Chaos list of 2,999 points or lower cannot include a Greater Daemon?

Correct, the Greater Daemon would have the highest Ld and would therefotre be the general (i.e. a daemonic army, not a mortal army).

The wording in the Hordes of Chaos book which indicates to 'first pick the type of army you would like to field' is confusing some players and they are claiming that they are allowed to field an Exhalted Champion (Ld8) as the General of their Mortal army and include a Greater Daemon (Ld9) as well. Please clarify.

The characters who is your general (following all of the normal rules) will determine the rest of the army. There are no listed exceptions to who can be your general (i.e. model with highest Ld).

GAV

In my mind this makes it fairly clear that the phrase from p55 of the HoC does not grant any sort of exception to the standard rule in the BRB.