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Gropius
06-05-2007, 20:17
High Elf princes and nobles can be equipped with spears for the same cost as a lance. Is there any point in doing this? As far as I know they can't use the spear in second rank when on foot and when on monster, horse or chariot the lance is stronger.

Atrahasis
06-05-2007, 20:27
The only reason to do this is for wysiwyg, and even then I'd challenge anyone to distinguish between a lance and a spear.

Bloodknight
06-05-2007, 20:48
Yep, thereīs just no point in it. The only time mounted characters should get spears is when thereīs no lance option ;), like Lizardmen etc. (although I think these have been deliberately left out so the characters donīt get S7 for such a cheap option).

Chicago Slim
07-05-2007, 01:01
Bloodknight: Wood elf characters can take a spear, but not a lance, when mounted.

All: Can't say as I recommend it, but High elf characters can choose a spear over a lance, if they want to. :P

KingGato
07-05-2007, 01:30
Theoretically if a character is knocked from his mount, he count continue using the spear.

...The spear that only has special properties in the second or third row. Yeah, sorry; there doesn't seem to be much of a point.

Vattendroppe
07-05-2007, 05:19
As been said, no point at all. And like Atrahasis I'd definetly challange anyone to make the difference between a spear and a lance.

MaxTheGaijin
07-05-2007, 06:13
It's simple math. Spear gives you a +1 on the charge Mounted and a Lance gives you +2 Mounted and you don't get a Lance on foot.

So it's up to you how hard you want to hit the enemy when you charge head long into their ranks.

Odieman
07-05-2007, 06:27
The only reason I can support for taking a spear, is in a Warhammer skirmish game. Because in skirmish, your character can charge in and fight behind another soldier in combat, thus he can use the spear efficiently on foot. In skirmish theres no units, but individual models. But troops/characters armed with spear may charge into combat, by simply "charging into the back of your friendly infantry. And by doing this you get to use the spear.

This is the only reasonable reason that I can see for taking a spear, but in Warhammer I really dont see any reason for it. Except maybe if both players agree on playing a historical battle from anicent times, and thus agreeing that some items cant be taken, like the lance. But as said in normal warhammer games, there just aint no reason.

Vattendroppe
07-05-2007, 12:05
But as said in normal warhammer games, there just aint no reason.

Except for cases when there aren't any option to take lance, like in the WE army.

ZomboCom
07-05-2007, 16:56
Except for cases when there aren't any option to take lance, like in the WE army.

He obviously meant in armies with access to both, e.g. high elves, who get both for the same price.

Vattendroppe
07-05-2007, 17:38
He obviously meant in armies with access to both, e.g. high elves, who get both for the same price.

But if you read the post I quoted you see that the person I was answering to refered to "normal" warhammer games, no specification of race or what-so-ever. I just reminded/enlighted him with the knowledge that there are in fact situations where there can certainly be a reason to take a spear on a character in normal warhammer games.

Odieman
07-05-2007, 17:38
Except for cases when there aren't any option to take lance, like in the WE army.

Ah sorry I forgot to mention what army I was talking about.
I meant in armies where Spears and Lances are both available and both at the same cost. Like in the High Elf army, which this thread is about. When theres only the option to take a spear then offcourse theres a reson for taking one ;) .

TheWarSmith
07-05-2007, 17:43
It's VERY hard now to get S7 mounted characters. Most models that can have a lance are only S4. I believe it's possible with certain combinations(don't HE have a stat boosting armour?)

There is a visual difference between a lance and a spear. Lances tend to be more highly crafted and are held differently than spears.

Atrahasis
07-05-2007, 17:49
Most models that can have a lance are only S4. I think only Chaos can do it now, and then only for one round of combat with a flail.


I believe it's possible with certain combinations(don't HE have a stat boosting armour?)That armour is on-foot only.

ZomboCom
07-05-2007, 18:00
It's VERY hard now to get S7 mounted characters. Most models that can have a lance are only S4. I believe it's possible with certain combinations(don't HE have a stat boosting armour?)

There is a visual difference between a lance and a spear. Lances tend to be more highly crafted and are held differently than spears.

The HE Armour of the Gods is for models on foot only.

It's not that hard to get S7 mounted characters, any vampire with a lance will do.

Hell, blood dragons can be S8 on the charge!

Da GoBBo
07-05-2007, 18:01
There is a visual difference between a lance and a spear. Lances tend to be more highly crafted and are held differently than spears.

Hehe. This reminds me of comparing the brutal orcs spears with ... well, any lance actually. Those orcspears are heavier, bigger, not as pointy but by the look of em more nasty than any lance could ever be. Still only +1S though. +3S and -2 armour piercing would be better suited when ye just look at those pigstikkas.

Atrahasis
07-05-2007, 18:05
It's not that hard to get S7 mounted characters, any vampire with a lance will do.Chaos Mortals and Vampires doesn't exactly smack of "easy".

KingGato
07-05-2007, 18:34
Hehe. This reminds me of comparing the brutal orcs spears with ... well, any lance actually. Those orcspears are heavier, bigger, not as pointy but by the look of em more nasty than any lance could ever be. Still only +1S though. +3S and -2 armour piercing would be better suited when ye just look at those pigstikkas.

Well, spears are held in the hand alone, like a handweapon, while with a lance you lock the weapon using the end part. A lance allows you to transfer the full force of the charging horse/boar/crazy lizard monster/gnoblar carrying you/whatever into whatever you're charging while a spear isn't as good at it. Orc Spears look intimidating, yeah, but they aren't as well-designed as a simple Empire lance.

theunwantedbeing
07-05-2007, 18:46
You only choose a spear over a lance when you dont actually ever need to be any stronger than strength 5.
Which frankly never happens....as its always better to be st6 rather than st5.
Against items that generate a higher save against higher strength attacks its always strength 4 or 5,never 6.

As for things being st7 when mounted...
Chaos lord/hero with a flail
Chaos lord with great maul
Vampire with a lance
erm...dwarf lord with 3 runes of +1 strength on his axe on sheild bearers
Dark elf with the executionairs axe vs something t4 or higher
Dark elf with the gauntlet of power
Tomb King/Prince on a chariot with a flail

Thats everything st7(and higher) mounted that I can think of off the top of my head.

TheWarSmith
07-05-2007, 19:10
"erm...dwarf lord with 3 runes of +1 strength on his axe on sheild bearers"

I'm really not counting that, as whatever it is(mount/not?), it's not abusive in the sense of having mobile S7 attacks.

Vattendroppe
07-05-2007, 19:18
A dwarf lord could actually come up to strength 8, with master rune of kraggi the grim and two runes of cleaving. That's mean.

theunwantedbeing
07-05-2007, 19:24
A dwarf lord can go to strength 9 with 2 runes on a regular hand weapon against the right sorts of opponents.
Strength 10 with 3 runes.
Possibly strength 10 with just 2 runes......I cant remember what runes dwarves get.

Either way anything beyond strength 8 is generally overkill unless your wanting to knock down a wall or something.....

Vattendroppe
07-05-2007, 19:25
A dwarf lord can go to strength 9 with 2 runes on a regular hand weapon against the right sorts of opponents.
Strength 10 with 3 runes.
Possibly strength 10 with just 2 runes......I cant remember what runes dwarves get.

How's that possible? 4 basic, then 2 additional from runes, makes six, seven with three runes.

ichani
07-05-2007, 19:29
i now hereby demand spears for skaven characters! how awsome would that be, i can hit you but you cant hit me!! ha ha ha. so many good times that would cause!

Ivan Stupidor
07-05-2007, 19:37
How's that possible? 4 basic, then 2 additional from runes, makes six, seven with three runes.

Dwarfs still have the "double strength against T5+ enemies" rune, don't they? The additional strength would then be gotten by adding +1 Strength runes for S9 or S10 against T5+.

Vattendroppe
07-05-2007, 19:46
Dwarfs still have the "double strength against T5+ enemies" rune, don't they? The additional strength would then be gotten by adding +1 Strength runes for S9 or S10 against T5+.

That seems to be correct, I've missed that little bugger.

ZomboCom
07-05-2007, 20:46
Cult of ulric can do a Seneschal/Grand Master on horseback with cavalry hammer and wolf helm. S6 on charge, increased to S7 if a leadership test is passed.