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Ninners
08-05-2007, 19:33
OK, i want to start a new SM army and actually paint/convert them well rather than my current rather bad ones.

I wanted to do a themed army and i came up with these ideas (most using traits)

Plasma weapon themed army - you can get 40+ plasma weapons using a full force organisation char (not sure how many points)

A dreadnought army - containing 6 drednoughts!

A fast assault army - tactical marines in rhinos / razorbacks, assault marines, speeders, bikers etc

Static fireline - consisting of tanks, devastators and las / plas sqauds

If anyone else has any ideas please say but which one of my ideas do you think is most interesting?

Thanks

Mr Zephy
08-05-2007, 19:53
These seem more like tactics than themes...:eyebrows:

My friend actually built the 6 dred army and it died horribly.

TheWarSmith
08-05-2007, 19:58
What zephyr said. That's just tooling with the army list. Themed armies have unique background/feels that separate them from other armies.

Such as an army from a certain location, which looks different, and is more themed for close combat because they were unable to secure excess amounts of ammunition in order to train.

Mr Zephy
08-05-2007, 21:29
Step 1: think of a cool area, people, or animal

Step 2: Add "in spAAAAAaaaace" to the end

Step 3: Apply this to a SM army.

MrBigMr
08-05-2007, 21:55
I've had few SM ideas, although I'm not a big fan of them.

Siege Kings:
Siege masters from a desert planet. Mostly modern style in the look. Khaki armor, lots of scopes, pouches and all that. All their sergeants would have terminator armor and heavy weapons would be mounted on IG style tripods. Even tanks would have IG style, such as Vindicators with the cannon mounted on a the back, like on a Basilisk.

Knights Templars:
Grey Knights with Inducted SM. Basicly highly zealous SM chapter fighting for the Inquisition. In style they would be like Grey Knights, the units having the GK special rule would have a giant halo on them (the St. Celestine one) to indicate them. Rest would be just silver armored marines.
I got the idea from talks of GK scouts and land speeders.

Grave Birds:
21st Founding chapter. Using a mix of Thousand Sons geneseeds in an experiment the chapter was created. Soon they mutated into bird like creatures and went renegade, turning chaos and worshiping Tzeentch.
Librarian HQ and assault marines all the way. Normal tactical squads would be on foot because their wings are deformed or broken, making them unable to fly.
Mostly SMs with Kroot parts (heads and maybe feet) and wings. Thousand Sons paint job of blue and gold/yellow.

Onisuzume
08-05-2007, 22:07
Step 1: think of a cool area, people, or animal

Step 2: Add "in spAAAAAaaaace" to the end

Step 3: Apply this to a SM army.
Sorry, but the "Skinks in spaaaaaaaace" one belonged to the Tau, not the SM.

As for a themed army:
All biker army. (Ravenwing/White Scars anyone?)
All Terminator army. (Deathwing anyone?)

ChaosTicket
08-05-2007, 22:11
Siege kings seems like a decent idea, but creates many limits, many aesthetic ones. For example, tripods are worthless to Astartes because their weapons have bracers to decrease recoil combined with their strength(gyro suspensors that deathwatch use make their weight next to nothing). A Turrent mounted demolisher still counts as hull mounted. But Khaki colored armor and scopes on their guns does illustrate that marines DO use Camoflage(sometimes) and scopes.

Knights Templar seems to be an attempt to retcon Grey Knight facts, like no Land Speeders and no Scouts. Inducted Marines know of Grey Knights and are priviledged to work with them, not be servants.

Grave Birds are just a Chaos Space marine army with Tzeentch Bird heads and wings isstead of jump packs and helmets.

MrBigMr
08-05-2007, 23:02
Siege kings seems like a decent idea, but creates many limits, many aesthetic ones. For example, tripods are worthless to Astartes because their weapons have bracers to decrease recoil combined with their strength(gyro suspensors that deathwatch use make their weight next to nothing). A Turrent mounted demolisher still counts as hull mounted. But Khaki colored armor and scopes on their guns does illustrate that marines DO use Camoflage(sometimes) and scopes.
What stops them from taking normal IG heavy weapons? The command squad box has kneeling legs. Give him pintle shooters arms and attach to the weapon. Since their style is long time siege warfare, having fixed weapons on their positions seems little smarter than to have to carry them around all the time.
I just like to toy with the idea of SM now alway being in a hurry, but taking their time. Why rush in, when you can sit here and bomb the enemy from afar till they crack. Then just roll over them and party hardy.
They're partially gonna be like the Emperor's Pointy Sticks, a humorous with a serious feel behind it. This humor would include marines doing sand castles on their bases, having surfboards on their rhinos (xenos don't surf) and tank commanders working on their tan.

The khaki color is purely a homage to their home planet. Sort of "I'm a desert creature" than an actual camo color.
And who said anything about a turret? You take a rhino, remove the roof and back, slap in the basilisk cannon base and cannon, cut the barrel short (like a sort of a howizer) and put some crew on the back.
Some of their bolters would have scopes and vertical grips, just for that extra tactical look.
Other things would include using Elysian helmets instead of normal marine ones, Kroot shoulder pads, smaller backpacks and some would have scarves around their heads.


Knights Templar seems to be an attempt to retcon Grey Knight facts, like no Land Speeders and no Scouts. Inducted Marines know of Grey Knights and are priviledged to work with them, not be servants.
I'm not denying it. They chapter would still be their own one, just using the rules of GK with inducted SM. Just a fun modelling project, slapping some Inquisitor signs on silver land speeders and GK assault marines and so on.


Grave Birds are just a Chaos Space marine army with Tzeentch Bird heads and wings isstead of jump packs and helmets.
In fluff. They'll still use SM rules.

swordwind
08-05-2007, 23:15
I was going to do some celtic marines that gasp and horror are based on actual celts, not just marines with kilts. White armour covered with blue war paint, severed heads, spiked hair, leaf shaped swords and lots of La Tene style metalwork but it never got past the design stage.

Hmm, maybe something to work on after my coursework is finished...

ChaosTicket
08-05-2007, 23:26
So those Grave birds are still a Loyal Space Marine chapter fighting for the Emperor's Holy Light.

Space Marines lost their siege ability after the Horus Heresy. Vindicators only have a demolisher cannon and storm bolter for defense. They rush in and fire.

Space Marines expend much more ammunition than Imperial Guard. They don't have long-range artillery. And they don't have many numbers. Space marines way of defense is to drop pod into a fallen position and use the Imperial Guard artillery until it's useless.

Best way for Marines to siege(in game) is to take many lascannons on non-devastator units, Assault Marines with melta bombs, and meltaguns for mobile AT power. You could do things, like giving tactical marines chain-trench knives, or simply have krak grenades and Tank hunters.

stonefox
08-05-2007, 23:37
Cool ideas for themes. I personally like the fire support las/plas theme myself. :) Some armies are assault-based that you can explain in fluff as zealotry or some other reasonable reason, while others are disciplined fire-support teams.

You can also add the drop pod surprise attack theme. Hard-hitting, first-strike force that creates a breach in the enemy line.

MrBigMr
08-05-2007, 23:39
So those Grave birds are still a Loyal Space Marine chapter fighting for the Emperor's Holy Light.
There's official statement that when making traitor marine forces, ones that have turned not so long ago, would use the SM list as they haven't had time to forget all that Imperial crap.
Besides, Chaos doesn't have much on the assault marine range. Raptors and chosen/possessed are far too expensive.


Space Marines lost their siege ability after the Horus Heresy. Vindicators only have a demolisher cannon and storm bolter for defense. They rush in and fire.
Not the Siege Kings.

paddyalexander
08-05-2007, 23:39
I've done two theamed SM armies.

The first 1 started as traited SM. Basicly its an undead Chapter of SM, cursed by a Daemon they banished, they're forced into a unending struggle to redeem themselves hunted by both the Imperium who sees them as being corrupted by the taint of chaos & by the forces of Chaos they're fighting.

The idea first spawned from wanting to simply mix SM & skeleton bits to make some dead marines for terrain, they look pretty cool however so I decided to do an army of them. This spawned several versions of they're background (including being one of the missing founding legions) which dictated what traits they took to match the background. I settled on an all infiltrating infantry force representing how they travel by warp craft, emerging from the mists of a battlefield and dissapearing just as suddenly & meltas, lots of meltas.

Unfortunatly I couldn't get a functional/competitive list going using traits so I switched to Chaos, which was better to represent their tainted nature.

The second army is an all biker army using traits (not raven wing). This is a recently founded Chapter based on the Imperial Fists geneseed. Being so new they don't have ready access to ancient or rare wargear like Terminators, Dreadnoughts & landraiders. Their homeworld is ruled by waring factions of bikergangs so their veteren company is comprised of bikes & they use attack bikes instead of tanks.

Sir_Turalyon
08-05-2007, 23:50
I'm currently going for DA "reserve company" theme, in all means. Reserve company consists only of tactical squads, transports, dreadnaughts and officers. And veterans, in case of Dark Angels. All other stuff is borrowed from other companies and therefore rare. It will be also - in my theme at least - equippend with reserve equipment, too good to discard but worse then what battle / assault / reserve companies recieve. Two themes I suggest for such army is emphasis on veteran and tactcal squads, and equipping army in ununiformed way. Actualy, being bretonnian and all things guard player, i have trouble standing all minis in army looking alike. With two 5-men command squads, three veteran squads and six tactical squads i can field entire company in one force organisation chart. I have no idea how this theme would work with regular marines (without combat squads and veterans in reserve company) without turning it into 6x6 lasplas army. One option would be replacing veterans with dreadnaughts, and making dreadnaught-and-tactical reserve company.

Modeling idea behind this is to use and mix all possible patterns of equipment and armour, giving impression company equipment is drawn from chapter's reserves. My six tactical squads will be from all possible ranges - 2 from RT range, 2 from 2nd edition, and 2 from 3rd-4th. All upgraded with bits from 4th edition marine box, some of muliti-part pieces replaced with chaos equivalents remodeled to look loyalist but old. Helmets rescupulted to crusader and other old helmet patterns.

Same applies to vehicles. There are two patterns of rhino and razorback to use one next to another. Vehicles spared to bolster reserve company would also often be some of least desired in their native company - both old and new predators, old and very old (flying couch) Land Speeders. This army makes an opportunity to collect or convert all patterns of vehicles and power armour ever made or drawn by GW.

Dribble Joy
08-05-2007, 23:55
Besides, Chaos doesn't have much on the assault marine range. Raptors and chosen/possessed are far too expensive.

If you're making a list based on a theme, then these sort of considerations go out the window.

My Fallen Iron Hands (going down the necron route) list is applling, but it's fluffy and will be a massive modelling project.

ChaosTicket
09-05-2007, 00:00
If you use any Space Marines list, you fight for the Forces of Order. If you use the list as a Chaos army, then I just call you spoiled for wanting what chaos marine don't have.

Chaos has many melee units. They have daemons, chaos marines, Defilers, terminators, bikers, raptors, possessed, chosen, Chaos Lords, Greater Daemons, etc.

Space Marine are based around more shooting and less melee, chaos is the opposite.

If You want themes then try it, however make sure it's not bullcrap. You want siege, then put alot of AT weapons and tank hunters. You want a fast army like White Scars Use to be, then have mounted units, bikes, vehicles, and assault marines.

When people start thinking of putting retro pieces for only aesthetic purposes on their models to make "siege" marines, or having a daemon worshipping Non-Chaos Space marines chapter, it just Irks me.

Please don't break background or common sense. It's a pet peeve.

Asi the Red
09-05-2007, 00:21
Hey ya'.
Not sure why any of that would preclude using loyalist rules for a newly fallen chapter.
How is using Codex:SM rules for a newly fallen Chapter wrong? Would their termies suddenly drop their stormbolters for combies? Would their speeders suddenly crash because they're no longer loyal to the Emperor? Would their Scouts suddenly switch to power armor over carapace and forget how to fire sniper rifles due to their devotion to the Ruinous Powers?


Chaos has many melee units.
Chaos also has many shooting units: Lt/Lord w/Kia Gun, Chosen, Oblits, CSM's, Termies, Flamers, Horrors, Bikers, Defilers, Dreads, Havocs, LR's, Preds.

MrBigMr
09-05-2007, 00:34
If you use any Space Marines list, you fight for the Forces of Order. If you use the list as a Chaos army, then I just call you spoiled for wanting what chaos marine don't have.

When people start thinking of putting retro pieces for only aesthetic purposes on their models to make "siege" marines, or having a daemon worshipping Non-Chaos Space marines chapter, it just Irks me.
Well, you know, it's you're own problem. If GW themselves says that it's ok to use SM list for newly turned chapters, then I don't see how your oppinion realy matters.


If You want themes then try it, however make sure it's not bullcrap. You want siege, then put alot of AT weapons and tank hunters. You want a fast army like White Scars Use to be, then have mounted units, bikes, vehicles, and assault marines.
Traits:
-Purity Above All
-Scions of Mars
-Die Standing
-Eye to Eye

In 2000pts.
-Terminator Master with Terminator Retinue, 2x CML
-Terminator Squad, 2x CML
-2x Dreadnough with TL AC and Missile Launcher
-2x Tactical Squad, Terminator Apothecary sarge
-Scout Squad, ML, 3x Sniper, Terminator sarge
-Devastator, Tank Hunters, 3x Missile Launcher, TL Lascannon Razorback
-2x Vindicator


Please don't break background or common sense. It's a pet peeve.
So I can't make my own background? Neva!
If I want to make a Necrontyr army, then I will. If I want a Tau battlesuit in my Slaanesh army, then I will. If I want to make my own aliens with Night Lords rules, then I will. If I want my Drop Troops IG have autoguns and sport Marine style gear, then they will.

MrBigMr
09-05-2007, 00:37
Chaos also has many shooting units: Lt/Lord w/Kia Gun, Chosen, Oblits, CSM's, Termies, Flamers, Horrors, Bikers, Defilers, Dreads, Havocs, LR's, Preds.
And lets not forget Slaanesh sonic weapons. Assault 2/Heavy 3 bolter for normal troops is pretty nice.

Ronin_eX
09-05-2007, 00:44
I love the new style codecies (DA, Eldar) for doing themed lists as it is so wide open with unit selection that you can create almost any theme and run with it.

My current Dark Angels list theme is a small group of Fallen hunters that looks something like this:

Master Belial (Likely to head up any large scale hunting group)
Librarian in TDA (He can know the hearts of men and will come in handy during the hunt)
3x Deathwing Terminator Squads (the main body of the force)
1x Ravenwing Attack Squad (the hunters)
1x Company Vets (hand picked by Belial from Piscina campaign veterans)
1x Devastator Squad (not likely to get close enough to learn more than they should too soon)

And add any other units to taste. I love this force because it not only makes sense (to me at least) but it mixes my favourite aspect of marine armies into one list (terminators, veterans, big guns).

I love doing themed lists as it is always fun to make your own background for an army (even when it comes with some of its own in the case of the DA).

Dr.Clock
09-05-2007, 00:49
I'd say that the best themes come from unit selection that is within the standard codex but rarely seen in 'tournament' style armies. Using traits leads quickly to the 'cookie-cutter' theme. six assault squads is an obvious 'theme'. It doesn't matter what fluff you come up with, you are basically playing Raven Guard.

The steps, as far as I see it, to making a themed list start with what you ARE NOT taking. This is more than the 'limit' that the major disadvantages pose. In one of my army I take NO TANKS or tactical squads under any circumstances. In another I take NO FAST ATTACK units of any sort. These limits ideally apply to more than one type of unit that is often seen in any force. Saying NO TECHMARINES is basically a cop-out. NO ASSAULT SQUADS is more interesting.

Once you have decided what you aren't taking, pick one or two 'trademark' units. These are the units that you will invariably have one or two of in 2000 point games. If one 'trademark' unit is a Troop choice, you will need three or more in any given list. Configs don't need to be exactly the same, but a 'reserve' or 'scout' company list will have a heavy emphasis on troops. Taking multiple units that aren't often seen is good way to be unique. Taking multiple techmarines, veteran squads or bike squads makes for a characterful list.

character is thus defined as much, if not more, by what is NOT in an army than by what IS in it. traits should be applied only after 'trademark' and 'excluded' units are decided upon. This will mean that your disadvantages will be easy to select and that you can pick advantages that reflect how a force arranged in such a way would come to fight given the resources that they have. Aside from converting any regular force, coming up with a really focussed and interesting force takes some work. It is, however, a really interesting ride.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

ChaosTicket
09-05-2007, 00:53
You want to pay 24points for a guy with a storm bolter and fearless?

I'm sorry for you mr. small that you are unscrupulous.

If a chapter no longer has support from Imperial hands, they have no homeworld, no Adeptus Mechanicus to manufacture their equipment, and this means that they have NO more sniper rifles, NO Land Speeders, No More jump packs, no whirlwinds, etc.

the Chaos list shows a a force of traitor marines using outdated weapons and armor. If You don't want them to worship daemons, then you don't have to use daemons. If You want to show that taht the Thousands Sons support them, then you can have Thousand Sons units in addition to regular marine units. Just follow the chaos space marine when using a chaos space marine force. Or like you will likely do, get Tau an call them Necrons.

MrBigMr
09-05-2007, 01:24
If a chapter no longer has support from Imperial hands, they have no homeworld, no Adeptus Mechanicus to manufacture their equipment, and this means that they have NO more sniper rifles, NO Land Speeders, No More jump packs, no whirlwinds, etc.
Black Dragons, Flame Dragons, Lamenters, Legion of the Damned, Minotaurs, Sons of Antaeus and Relictors. Say anything? They're all more or less heretics, yet somehow they're able to use all those units. How is that?
Like Asi the Red said, do their tanks just suddently stop working and their guns jam beyond repair? If many chaos units are able to keep their guns working since the Heresy, I don't see how a sniper couldn't take care of his rifle and Land Speeder pilot keep his vehicle working.


the Chaos list shows a a force of traitor marines using outdated weapons and armor. If You don't want them to worship daemons, then you don't have to use daemons. If You want to show that taht the Thousands Sons support them, then you can have Thousand Sons units in addition to regular marine units. Just follow the chaos space marine when using a chaos space marine force. Or like you will likely do, get Tau an call them Necrons.
But I'm talking about a new heretic chapter. Like a brand spanking new that doesn't have outdated weapons and armor. One that has just, like in the 41st milleniums, turned on the other side. Not some Pre/Post-Heresy traitor chapter.

Aegius
09-05-2007, 01:41
Scout Squad, ML, 3x Sniper, Terminator sarge



Don't forget that this scout squad will lose the ability to infiltrate as you cannot infiltrate if a model is wearing terminator armour.

ChaosTicket
09-05-2007, 01:41
First of all, It's the 42nd millenium now. All Those chapters you mentioned are still loyal astartes chapters even if they are mutants/unlucky/supernatural(the relictors are excommunicate traitorus now, so they are kill on sight)

You're chaos or you're not. If I played you, you would have to use the Chaos space marine codex List for chaos using chaos space marines.

Draco Argentum
09-05-2007, 04:31
Uh oh, its another person who hates counts as and thinking outside the box.

Fortunately most people would play a chaos chapter that happened to use the SM rules.

Asi the Red
09-05-2007, 04:58
Hey ya'.


If a chapter no longer has support from Imperial hands, they have no homeworld, no Adeptus Mechanicus to manufacture their equipment, and this means that they have NO more sniper rifles, NO Land Speeders, No More jump packs, no whirlwinds, etc.
So you're saying that after going rogue all the sniper rifles/LS/JP's/Whirlwinds/etc in my newly renegade chapter will inexplicably break and that through no logical means like raiding small manufacturing centers, boarding cargo vessels, or ambushing small loyalist forces would I ever be able to reacquire another functioning one? That my chapter's renegade techmarines and their servitors wouldn't be able to fix any of my damaged gear?

Surely that must sound outrageous, even to you.

Feor
09-05-2007, 06:24
If the rules say the model is a space marine with a lascannon, why does it matter if that model, in the game, has extra spikey bits and a giant daemon face on the end of his lascannon?

Doesn't work so well for cult armies, but for undivided, the loyalist list can work fine.

Back on topic: Bretonnians in spAAAaaace!
Be swift as the Wind (mainly mounted on "iron horses") chapter with the "we stand alone" drawback (aka "no mercenaries for you!").

Main bulk of the army is marines on bikes made using 1 part Space Marine biker model, and one part Bretonnian Knight model..

Support porvided by "Pegasus Pattern" Land Speeders, "Trebuchet Pattern" whirlwinds, and Scout Snipers using "Bowman Pattern" sniper rifles.

:)

The Dude
09-05-2007, 07:13
You're chaos or you're not. If I played you, you would have to use the Chaos space marine codex List for chaos using chaos space marines.


Uh oh, its another person who hates counts as and thinking outside the box.

Iím with you Draco. These are the same people who need rules to tell them how to make a Radical Inquisitor or the various Craftworlds :rolleyes:

Get some imagination people! ;)

Slaaneshi Slave
09-05-2007, 07:15
We Stand Alone is not a drawback. Anybody who takes it should be evisorated with a large wooden spoon.

Culven
09-05-2007, 07:54
A fast assault army - tactical marines in rhinos / razorbacks, assault marines, speeders, bikers etc
Building on this idea, I had once considered making a Death Strike army. Based upon the name, I thought that a rapid strike force could be interesting using Swift as the Wind and Blessed be the Warriors (I think thoe were the Trait Advantages). Anywhoo...the idea was to use bike squads for troops, and Assault squads (Elite and Fast Attack) to fill out the "infantry" role.

I made a Deathwatch army instead, and it is currently mutating into a Red Hunters army. I'm never going to finish my marines...:rolleyes:

Onisuzume
09-05-2007, 10:05
I'm currently going for DA "reserve company" theme, in all means. Reserve company consists only of tactical squads, transports, dreadnaughts and officers. And veterans, in case of Dark Angels. All other stuff is borrowed from other companies and therefore rare.
*snip*
I have no idea how this theme would work with regular marines (without combat squads and veterans in reserve company) without turning it into 6x6 lasplas army. One option would be replacing veterans with dreadnaughts, and making dreadnaught-and-tactical reserve company.
You could, perhaps, take devastators with only a single heavy weapon instead of the veterans then. That way they still look "tactical".

Main bulk of the army is marines on bikes made using 1 part Space Marine biker model, and one part Bretonnian Knight model..

Support porvided by "Pegasus Pattern" Land Speeders, "Trebuchet Pattern" whirlwinds, and Scout Snipers using "Bowman Pattern" sniper rifles.
In short; you're looking for a reason to use your fantasy models in 40k?

MrBigMr
09-05-2007, 10:51
First of all, It's the 42nd millenium now.
Since when did we cross the magical 999.M41 line? GW site sez: "41st millennium".


You're chaos or you're not. If I played you, you would have to use the Chaos space marine codex List for chaos using chaos space marines.
What if I'm traitor, but not Chaos? There are such marines out there as well. And I can relax in the notion that we'd never play each other. People around here are far more down with such armies.

And if I bring a SM army that just happens to have Kroot heads, painter blue/gold and sports some Tzeentch icons, but other than that uses right gear and right units, what is there to stop someone from playing it?
If my WHFB Khorne lord rides the Throne of Judgement into battle instead of a Juggernaut, is that wrong? If my Warhounds are made from Kroot hounds, is that wrong? If my 40K Slaanesh lieutenant has daemonic strenght and flight and I use an XV8 model for him, is that wrong?
Where do we draw the line?


Don't forget that this scout squad will lose the ability to infiltrate as you cannot infiltrate if a model is wearing terminator armour.
Doesn't matter, they still have sniper rifles. Just deploy them somewhere safe. It sucks I can't give the sarge a sniper rifle. A walking sniper rifle would rule.

Feor
09-05-2007, 14:39
In short; you're looking for a reason to use your fantasy models in 40k?

Actually, no. I play Ogre Kingdoms. :p

But come on, wouldn't a Space Marine, with a Bretonnian helmet, on a fancied up motor bike look cool? :)

Aegius
09-05-2007, 15:44
Actually, no. I play Ogre Kingdoms. :p

But come on, wouldn't a Space Marine, with a Bretonnian helmet, on a fancied up motor bike look cool? :)

Hell no! I've seen space marine armies with bretonian helmets and guess what, they look like space marine models with bretonian helmets on them.

Templar Ben
09-05-2007, 15:46
We Stand Alone is not a drawback. Anybody who takes it should be evisorated with a large wooden spoon.

It is so. It says so right in the book. :p


But come on, wouldn't a Space Marine, with a Bretonnian helmet, on a fancied up motor bike look cool? :)

I gave a bunch of my SM scouts Bretonnian helmets because I play BT and I thought that looked really crusader. Actually it looks really Monty Python but since I have the Holy Orb it still works. :p

I use Bret man at arms to make IG so I am not the best person to go by though.

(And Oni thinks BT are not the best example of SM so don't listen. ;) )

Ninners
09-05-2007, 15:48
Some of these ideas are very helpful, but this thread has turned into a bit of an argument :confused:

I think my question was phrased badly :p

Thanks guys, no more ideas needed

Amornar
09-05-2007, 18:43
Two words: Mars Army

Techmarine Character Upgrade
Dreadnaughts
Tanks
Devastators
Terminators

You could use Iron Hands pieces, maybe penitent engines for dreads, lots of wires and bionics, etc. Maybe a few IG pieces. Lots of directions you can go.

-Amornar

edit: Use the penitent engine model to make a commander model, like an Arch Magos or something.

Onisuzume
09-05-2007, 19:12
I gave a bunch of my SM scouts Bretonnian helmets because I play BT and I thought that looked really crusader. Actually it looks really Monty Python but since I have the Holy Orb it still works. :p
(And Oni thinks BT are not the best example of SM so don't listen. ;) )
They're heretics I tell you! Heretics!
Btw, have you heard of the "Black and White Space Marine on his Black and White Bike" joke?

P.S. is that black templars fleet still missing after an encounter with a fleet from my chapter.(Dark Angels)

Ninners
09-05-2007, 19:25
tell us the black and white space marine on his black and white bike joke!

Onisuzume
09-05-2007, 21:44
tell us the black and white space marine on his black and white bike joke!
Wasn't that joke banned?

MrBigMr
09-05-2007, 21:50
Oh, that joke. I had forgotten it. Googling will help.
Reminds me of one other joke, which is pretty funny in a good buzz, but I can't realy tell in in English. Doesn't translate. The concept is the same, but it's much shorter.

Chainsworded Codpiece
09-05-2007, 22:20
If you use any Space Marines list, you fight for the Forces of Order.

Space Marine are based around more shooting and less melee, chaos is the opposite.

Chaos can, and will, eventually, do or be "based around" damned near everything. Not all of it will work, but it will occur.


If You want themes then try it, however make sure it's not bullcrap. You want siege, then put alot of AT weapons and tank hunters.(...)When people start thinking of putting retro pieces for only aesthetic purposes on their models to make "siege" marines, or having a daemon worshipping Non-Chaos Space marines chapter, it just Irks me.
Please don't break background or common sense. It's a pet peeve.

Well, the common sense is understandable; but the idea of making a "seige themed" army in aesthetic terms only, hardly seems something to get hot under the collar about. How is it "bullcrap", exactly?

It's a THEME, not a tactic. Themes can be visual without having some in-game effect. Or, to quote a Lovecraftian author, they can be "more apparent than real".

I think the Seige Kings look would be all right. And if it has no effect on game-play, well, shinola, I guess that's just the way it is.

Ronin_eX
09-05-2007, 23:59
Meh, people have gotten too used to having "themes" forced on them by the various sub-lists and rules-bloat GW put out during 3rd edition. Making a theme is about more than rules it is about style. The new codecies look like they finally get this and will be great for allowing people to make up their own themes instead of using someone else's.

Draco Argentum
10-05-2007, 04:20
We Stand Alone is not a drawback. Anybody who takes it should be evisorated with a large wooden spoon.

Taking a lot of bikes isn't exactly an advantage. ;)

ChaosTicket
10-05-2007, 05:06
it is when the can outfight and outshoot most armies and take out tanks from side and rear shots with meltaguns, while turbo boosting everywhere.

If White Scars were still a viable army they would rule, but they got dusted.

The Dude
10-05-2007, 05:22
it is when the can outfight and outshoot most armies and take out tanks from side and rear shots with meltaguns, while turbo boosting everywhere.

If White Scars were still a viable army they would rule, but they got dusted.

So which is it? Can they outfight and outshoot most armies and take out tanks from side and rear shots with meltaguns, while turbo boosting everywhere, or did they get dusted? I can't see how both can be true :eyebrows:

ChaosTicket
10-05-2007, 06:46
White Scars used to be able to have an entire mounted force with bikes, tanks, apcs, land raiders, 5-10 strong bikes squads with melee weapons and skilled riders.

But now, no tanks or apcs, no melee bike squads, etc.

White Scars are the First Founding legion that got hosed the most.

But Marine bikes are still the best in the game. Because of the low numbers they can't win an outright fight, but when combined with shooting and other factors it has the least Problems of "Cheese" armies like full heavy weapons, or mounted force. At Least negatively, but it's still pretty cheesy unless an enemy has grey knights and plasma weapons.

Onisuzume
10-05-2007, 20:23
Taking a lot of bikes isn't exactly an advantage. ;)
It is for White Scars and Ravenwing.

Templar Ben
10-05-2007, 20:33
They're heretics I tell you! Heretics!
Btw, have you heard of the "Black and White Space Marine on his Black and White Bike" joke?

P.S. is that black templars fleet still missing after an encounter with a fleet from my chapter.(Dark Angels)

We are still waiting for them to check in. Something about DA taking a guy in black armor is all we got.

And you call us heretics. :p