View Full Version : Questions - Challenges and Lores of Magic

09-05-2007, 12:03
Hi Chaps, played my first ever game with High Elves vs OnG (Forresttim) at 2000pts (this was my 4th ever game of WFB the others being 1000pts affairs with my Empire).

2 noob questions from me:

1. - Lores of Magic

How do most people go about choosing their Magic lores? I had two mages and I went for High Magic (seer) and chose Fury of Khaine (also had this in a ring) and Curse of arrow attraction. I forgot about Drain magic as an extra spell (doh!). With the second mage I went for Lore of Heavens and rolled up Portent of Far and Second sign of Amul. This morning I have looked on The Mustering Field and noticed that other HE lists all seem to have Unseen Lurker as the main spell - so the question above is all I would like to know (is it trial and error choosing different lores until you find something you like? and is it dependant on your opponents army?)

2. - Challenges

We had a situation on my Dragon Princes (inc my Prince) charging my opponents main unit of orcs with his general in (note. I even managed a rear charge with my Reavers at the same time - yee ha).

I did not know if I wanted to issue a challenge (seems a fun thing to do) - do I issue with the Prince? (because he is killy) or with the Champion because my opponents General is Killy?

If I hadn't of issued a challenge and my opponent issues one with his general is it better to accept with the Prince (who stands a chance of doing some damage but might die) or accept with the unit champion?

By the way my prince was not my General IaC had seen to that, one of my excellent Ld 8 Mages was my general (to add insult to injury he managed to kill himself and 6 Swordmasters in his first magic turn!!)

In the end Tim and I fought out a damp squib of a challenge between his General and my Prince where we both managed 1W each.

thanks for sage advice in advance


09-05-2007, 14:23
I'm afraid the answer to both is: it depends :)

For picking magic lores, it's really down to a) your army and b) your opponent's army - in other words, either you go for a lore that maximises your strengths/minimises your weaknesses, or you go for one that can counter/expose your opponent's. Being able to choose any of the lores and, with Seer, particular spells within lores lets you do this really well e.g. Sprit of the Forge vs heavy armour; Rain Lord/Howler Wind/Celestial Shield vs shooting; Fortune is Fickle + Drain Magic vs magic users....and so on. So really depends on what sort of army you field, and what your opponent tips up with.

Quick word of warning - it's not really advisable to base a whole gameplan on one spell (e.g. Dragon Princes charge 36" with unseen lurker - RAAAA!!!) because its a big gamble. You might never get to cast the spell, through bad luck/dispel scrolls/death. Better to use magic to complement your army rather than make the army.

Beyond that it's down to personal taste

As for challenges, again, it really depends on the situation, e.g What equipment have you given your Prince? What equipment does your opponent normally go for on his heroes? Which race are you facing? And so on

Nearly all armies other than HE have access to some really evil characters - tough to kill, and likely to do some serious damage in return. It's not really possible to turn a HE Prince into a durable killing machine, but you can go one way or the other - e.g. with Helm of Fortune and Vambraces of Defense you'll have a re-rollable 1+ save with a 4+ ward save to follow. You'd have to be extremely unlucky to die/lose many wounds, and charging in with a basic lance you stand a good chance of causing one or two (assuming you have better luck with your princes than I do :))

So I guess you have to weigh up:

a)how much damage you think your Prince will do against the unit
b)how much damage you think the enemy character will do to your unit
c)how much damage you think your Prince will do against the enemy character
d)how much damage you think the enemy character will do to your Prince
e)what would happen if he accepts with a champion
f)what would happen if you issue the challenge with a champion

All of that is going to vary hugely depending on situation, but to give an example:

You suspect the enemy character has a sword that disallows armour saves. He has 4 attacks, st5, so he could make a real mess of your Dragon Princes. To save combat resolution, probably best to issue a challenge. Issuing with your champion will result in one dead champion, as you'll only be able to do max 2 wounds, and there's a big risk of overkill in the enemy's favour. But, your unit is spared, and your Prince gets the chance to kill some rank n file. Challenging with your prince however, there is a (slim) chance that you'll kill the character before he does anything, and a better chance that you won't take many wounds in return with the 4+ ward save. Meanwhile, your unit fights unscathed. If he accepts with his champion, however, your unit has to face the character's wrath. On the plus side, there's a reasonable chance of scoring some overkill on the champion.

So all that speculation, and it still comes out as an answer of 'maybe' :) But at least you can see the sorts of things to think about. It also comes down a lot to personal taste - personally, I like the idea of Generals duking it out on the battlefield.

Also worth bearing in mind that some races have some nasty items and tricks (e.g. empire, brets, wood elves...) that come out in challenges.

Hope that's helpful, and not just telling you what you already know :)

09-05-2007, 14:26
if you use seer, then you just pick the combination of spells you think will be most useful. without it (imo) it's a combination of spells you want, how useful the number one spell is and the possibility of rolling two spells you won't want to cast.

this would make it pretty dependant on your opponents army, and also on yours. if you don't have any characters you want to get in combat, then beasts may be a risky law to choose as the number one spell is of little use. also if your opponent has lots of heavily armoured units then metal could be very useful. lots of skirmishers, maybe use direct damage spells such as fire.

09-05-2007, 19:59
I'm not sure I can add anything of value beyond what luckysevens has already said. In terms of choosing which magic lore(s) to go with, it really does entirely depend on you and your army, and your opponent's army.

I'm an Empire player, and as such I have access to all eight lores of magic. Often, it's a bit hard to decide exactly which lore(s) to choose in any given situation, as it depends on the army I'll be facing and how to best support my own troops. I do have a couple of "default" lores, though. I take these most of all, and I find them useful if I don't know exactly what army I'll be facing as they've served me as all-rounders best. The Lore of Fire and the Lore of Death are my favorites, and act as my default lores.

So I'd suggest picking a lore or two that you think will be effective regardless of whatever army it is you face. These will act as your all-comers lores. Become familiar with them. In situations where you know which army you'll be facing, and maybe even exactly what's in it, choose the lore(s) that would be most effective against them.

Sounds insanely simple in theory and entirely a "duh" kind of thing, but hey...
Hope I've helped a little.