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View Full Version : Hellblaster or Leadbelchers for Empire army?



gorenut
11-05-2007, 22:20
Which would you guys consider to be more useful in an Empire army? I'm debating on whether I should take Hellblaster or Leadbelchers.

Crazy Harborc
12-05-2007, 00:51
Based on what Hellblasters have done for me and what leadbelchers have done to me........Leadbelchers, four or five per unit. The problem is they have to get in closer to shoot their max range.

ChaosTicket
12-05-2007, 00:58
the hellblaster is cheaper and usually better. The Leadbelchers are pretty expensive costing 240 with 4 of them and command, over double a hellblaster, so you can get 2 hellblasters for one leadbelcher.

So really it's how many points do you have to spend?

gorenut
12-05-2007, 01:46
Thanks for the replies. I don't have 2 rare slots for 2 hellblasters. My other rare slot is for Ironguts.. which gave me the idea of using Leadbelchers in the first place, kind of a theme going on.

From what I recall.. they don't get range penalties and can move AND shoot. So they have an effective range of 18"

Downfall I can see is that they take a whole round to reload again.

The Hellblaster only seems only really worth while if you take a Master Engineer. UNfortuately, we all know how underpowered they are.

ChaosTicket
12-05-2007, 01:51
master engineer does nothing for hellblasters, wonder why people don't get that yet, after how many years?

Leadbelchers are tough, strong, expensive, and shooty. They shoot then charge and kill anything, even chaos warriors.

hellblasters stay back just like the mortors and cannons and slaughter mass units before jamming.

So it's offense versus defense.

theunwantedbeing
12-05-2007, 01:56
Helblaster obviously.
Leadbelchers will get shot and panicked and cost too much.

gortexgunnerson
12-05-2007, 02:04
master engineer does nothing for hellblasters, wonder why people don't get that yet, after how many years?

Except making them hit more under the new rules which have only been out for around a few months and hence the reason for putting an Master engineer with them.

I'd go with the hellblaster over the lead belchers as think they are over priced for their use. But I would say that with any orge uit in an empire army. You ahve combat units with the detachment rule giving you some of the most powerful combat units in the game if played correctly. Orges just seem like an expensive bandage for a army that not build correctly. I cant see what they would add to you army; for stregth you have artillery and knights, for numbers you have your core units and for mass attacks you have handgunners. My main advice is that if your feilding orges for any reason other then a fun theme theirs something wrong with your army. If you like the mix play Dogs of war their better at it. I would avoid either the hellblaster or leadbelcher under new rules but did include one in my GT list just or a laugh as I like the idea of them and are v good at slapping knights units!

gorenut
12-05-2007, 02:48
master engineer does nothing for hellblasters, wonder why people don't get that yet, after how many years?



They now add their BS to the Hellblaster. It's been like that ever since the New Empire book.




I'd go with the hellblaster over the lead belchers as think they are over priced for their use. But I would say that with any orge uit in an empire army. You ahve combat units with the detachment rule giving you some of the most powerful combat units in the game if played correctly. Orges just seem like an expensive bandage for a army that not build correctly. I cant see what they would add to you army; for stregth you have artillery and knights, for numbers you have your core units and for mass attacks you have handgunners. My main advice is that if your feilding orges for any reason other then a fun theme theirs something wrong with your army. If you like the mix play Dogs of war their better at it. I would avoid either the hellblaster or leadbelcher under new rules but did include one in my GT list just or a laugh as I like the idea of them and are v good at slapping knights units!

Yea, it is for more flavor reasons, but at the same time atleast having some effectiveness. I don't have knights in my army simply because I don't like our knight models at the moment. I might consider converting some in the future, but as of now, I take other things to compensate for my lack of knights (I already have a unit of Ironguts). On the contrary, it seems like on the Empire forums, they think Leadbelchers are quite decent and actually work better in the Emire (and DoW) army than they do in an Ogre army. I'll look further into it... yea, I do want to take some more DoW units just for flavorsake. Maybe I'll look into some Orcs (if for the only reason of converting them from the new black orcs).

ChaosTicket
12-05-2007, 03:35
Oh, didn't see that Volley guns had to roll to hit now, DOWN WITH HELLBLASTERS!

Most shots from a Leadbelcher gun hits on a 4+, with 3-4 hits per ogre. So 4 will do 14 hits=7 strength 4 hits then a charge.

Leabelchers rule when not in an Ogre List.

WillFightForFood
12-05-2007, 15:23
The Hellblaster is a neat parlor trick, but it's a load of points that sits in one place, hopes something good comes into range, and hopes not to roll a bad misfire. Leadbelchers give speed, maneuverability, and point firepower. Not only that, but they are not fragile, unlike the entirety of the Empire list. Leadbelchers are also rich in smashy goodness, and can be devastating in hand to hand as well. Speaking from the perspective of someone on the receiving end of both, the leadbelchers are far more useful as a rare choice.

RavenBloodwind
12-05-2007, 17:34
Just a quick thought aside from points considerations.

While the helblaster is rightly feared, leadbelchers truly CAUSE fear.

The helblaster has a longer range but no defense. The leadbelchers can actually survive, nay win, a round of combat.

The typical warmachine hunter will think at least twice before committing to attack the leadbelchers.

Lastly, on a misfire the leadbelchers are much less likely to remove themselves completely from the game even if they do manage to wound themselves.

jahorin
12-05-2007, 18:05
You have to be careful, since under 7th if you suffer 25% casualties from the misfire they will have to take a panic test on LD7. just something to consider.

As far as the choice for your army, I would go for the hellblaster since you are already fielding ogres in your force.

hwd
12-05-2007, 18:50
personally... Hellblaster
I just love the whole crazy gun thing and it seems to work for me!
I have to say that out of my last 25 odd games ive had about 8 misfires, all of which I rolled a 6 for releasing 30 shots into a poor unsuspecting unit!
I also have sick luck with the artillery dice when not misfiring; ive rolled 30 (3 tens) three or four times, and probably average well into the twenties.
I even manages to, in two turns, get a whopping 58 shots onto archaon leving him on 1 wound...

So basically i like them cos im a luck git with them!

thedodgeypanda
13-05-2007, 15:13
2 hellblasters and you probibly will help you win, 115points each its just wrong.

memitchell747
14-05-2007, 04:40
I want to like Leadblechers, but...
I can live with a 6" move+12" range.
I'm sort of OK with having to roll to hit (until I play against Salamanders).
Having to reload is just stupid. That makes the unit 1/2 as good as it should be.
But, a single Misfire can cause the whole unit to Panic off the board. C'mon!
Still, more fun than a Hellblaster.

Really, the only problem is they are going to hang out on a flank, where they will be shooting at Skirmishers (-1 to hit) or into terrain (-1 to hit) or both (-2 to hit). Were they so afraid the Ogres would be just to powerful with a decent shooting unit?

Marked_by_chaos
14-05-2007, 08:08
I am not convinced that its actully legal for you to field dogs of war anymore in an empire list.

I am sure that the ogre list does not allow for them to be taken except as allowed in the main army list.

Therefore the decision is pretty much made for you - Hellblaster.

VampireOfKhorne
14-05-2007, 13:15
I am not convinced that its actully legal for you to field dogs of war anymore in an empire list.

I am sure that the ogre list does not allow for them to be taken except as allowed in the main army list.

Therefore the decision is pretty much made for you - Hellblaster.

The rules for DoW say that DoW may be taken by empire as a Rare slot. The rules for OK mercs says that they may be taken by any army that can take DoW as a rare slot, so yes, they can take them.

IMO though, you shouldnt. I've never had good experience with LB's, they tend to inflict only a small amount of damage on the enemy, while doing a lot on themselves. as empire you really have no reason for more shooting anyway.

Commissar Vaughn
14-05-2007, 13:47
Well, last time I saw a unit of leadbelchers get into a fight with one of my Helblasters, the helblaster won by miles.

Kadrium
14-05-2007, 14:47
Leadbelchers have to be used correctly. Don't pack a unit of 5 of them onto the table. One or two of them will misfire every time you shoot, they'll blow themselves up and panic off.

Leadbelchers should be fielded in units of 2 or 3 and used as charge bait. Move up and fire to force your opponent into charging them from 8-12 inches away, flee from the charge to strand your opponents unit for a counter charge, and then rally with the bellower upgrade on ld8. On the turn they rally they are allowed to reform and reload their cannons. Repeat the process, or charge into the combat they just set up by being bait.

Never ever ever take their champion upgrade.

memitchell747
14-05-2007, 20:54
I am not convinced that its actully legal for you to field dogs of war anymore in an empire list.

I am sure that the ogre list does not allow for them to be taken except as allowed in the main army list.

Therefore the decision is pretty much made for you - Hellblaster.

Oh, OK. Yeah, I forgot GW hasn't decided what to do with DoW. Do you think I should sell my Leadbelchers and Maneasters, or wait a few years for the big decision?

alextroy
15-05-2007, 01:27
I've have had great success with the Helblaster under the new rules. The rest of my artillery seems to take the misfires for the Helblaster, since I've only misfired twice in about 10 games and it didn't explode either time. However, the units that fell victim to the mass of S5 AP shots didn't fare well. Be they dwarves, Skaven, or Undead, they died in droves.

Also, if you want to 'enhance' your helblaster, skip the Master Engineer and get a Heavens Wizard instead. Take Portent of Far and cast that on the Helblaster. Now you get to reroll the 1's to hit and damage. That really adds to the HB's punch. Plus the wizard has other uses for the army.

loveless
15-05-2007, 03:00
Oh, OK. Yeah, I forgot GW hasn't decided what to do with DoW. Do you think I should sell my Leadbelchers and Maneasters, or wait a few years for the big decision?

actually, GW has listed which Dogs of War can be taken by which army and which choice they take up

go check the GW website under Dogs of War

memitchell747
15-05-2007, 08:18
actually, GW has listed which Dogs of War can be taken by which army and which choice they take up

go check the GW website under Dogs of War

I was attempting sarcasm. I don't shelf units waiting for GW to re-decide something they already decided. The DoW and the Ogres for Hire articles don't address the lack of a DoW entry in the new army books. If there is some recent official guidance, I haven't seen it.

Crazy Harborc
15-05-2007, 23:34
Go to GW's site (I recommend the USA version). Click Warhammer (NOT the online store's)....Click Giants for hire-DoW on the side bar list. That will take you to the PDF files that you can download the latest DoW and or RoR rules and lists.