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Irennicus
12-05-2007, 16:04
Alright, before you say anything, I might have simply forgotten some of these rules. I've spent the past four days doing nothing but working/sleeping/reading codices and the rulebook. I have a few rules questions that I hope don't make me look too shoddy.

First Q: If something does an 'automatic' S5 hit that ignores armor save, I still roll to wound, correct?

Second Q: If you have an army list of 1500 points, by conventional rules, could your general be a Lord?

Third Q: (This isn't really a rules question but I don't want to open another thread and waste bandwidth) People frequently put their units under full command, but it seems to me like this is a waste of points. Let me get this straight, the standard bearer gives you +1 to combat resolution and the musician gives you +1 to your Ld when Rallying? Then after that you just get a slightly more capable fighter who can reposition to the front rank? It doesn't seem worth the points to me.

Griefbringer
12-05-2007, 16:15
Welcome on the board!

Some answers:

1.) Correct. Automatic hit means that you do not need to roll to hit, but you still need to roll to wound. Things that ignore armour save only ignore the saving throw, not the to wound rool.

2.) No. All the army books that I can think of require a 2000 point army before you can take a lord.

3.) The advantages of the command models might not be obvious until you have played a couple of times. And don't forget that musicians let you win drawn combats (and are very cheap).

BTW: the use of term "codex" tends to be slightly frowned upon here on the fantasy boards.

theunwantedbeing
12-05-2007, 16:19
An automatic hit merely means you dont roll to hit.
You still roll to wound after each hit.

You cannot take a lord untill you have a 2000point army.
Not unless you have a house rule that allows for lords to be taken in under 2000point armies.

You'll have to read the rules for command groups to understand why they are so important,and play a few games.

Sorry to sound like an echo.

As for the codex remark....your obviously a 40k player and new to fantasy.
A codex in fantasy is an armybook,kindly use the term armybook from now on please.

Irennicus
12-05-2007, 16:20
Thank you for the hasty and polite response!



BTW: the use of term "codex" tends to be slightly frowned upon here on the fantasy boards.

Ouch, yeah, the only Warhammer experience I had before this was two years ago with 40k for about a month. I'll try to remember 'Armybook' next time.

Griefbringer
12-05-2007, 16:27
About the advantages of the command models, try to keep the following in mind:

1.) Units have relatively narrow frontage (usually 5-6 models), but usually quite a lot of depth (say 3-5 ranks). Usually only the front rank gets to attack, so the amount of attacks is relatively low - making the extra attack from champion quite useful. You can try to make the front rank wider to get more attacks, but this requires a lot of models (since you need to add extras to the rear ranks too), makes the unit less manoeuvrable, and only goes so far (if your frontage is a lot wider than enemy frontage, you cannot bring everyone to bear).

2.) Missile troops similarly can also only fire in one rank, so the amount of missile troops you can bring to bear is limited. Once you have used all the area that is given by the deployment zone, you cannot make missile units more effective by adding extra shooters, since they will not be able to shoot. Champions on the other hand make the unit slightly more effective in shooting without adding to the frontage.

3.) Combat resolution is important! You really want to win those close combats and make the enemy flee, and for that you need combat resolution. Standard is relatively cheap way of getting combat resolution bonus (compare it to the price of adding an extra rank of models). Similarly, musician is handy for those draws.

4.) In case enemy manages to rout your units but fails to run them down, you really want to rally them, so that +1 from musician becomes handy. Fleeing units can cause panic in your own units and will give victory points to your enemy, while rallied troops can try to get back into the fight.

Arnizipal
12-05-2007, 16:30
Champions are useful because the can issue and take up challenges, thus protecting any weaker characters in the unit and stopping powerful enemy characters from mowing down your entire front rank.

Also, even when your entire front rank is killed, your champion can stil fight, unless he was specifically targetted and killed (which people often forget to do).

Irennicus
12-05-2007, 16:30
That's a lot of really great points. I think you have convinced me that FC isn't nearly as point-inefficient as I thought it was. Do you tend to put a majority of your core troops under FC?

Edit: And I just saw Arnizipal's post. That's another great point, I forgot all about challenges.

Griefbringer
12-05-2007, 16:37
A codex in fantasy is an armybook

I would say it is the other way around - army book is army book everywhere else except in 40K, where it is called codex (I guess the studio staff though that the target audience of 40K would have found army book too long word to spell... :cool: ).


I think you have convinced me that FC isn't nearly as point-inefficient as I thought it was.

Remember that the usefulness of a full command depends on the role of a unit - big combat units that are intended to go face enemy in close combat and win almost always benefit from them. Smaller sacrificial units, as well as units that are not intended to get into close combat (missile units) are unlikely to benefit from them. Units that are intended to harass enemy and flee when charged (skirmishers, fast cavalry) would often do well to pack a musician.

Irennicus
12-05-2007, 17:05
In response to theunwantedbeing: Was that a trace of condescension I detected or am I just mistranslating you via the wonders of the internet?

In response to Griefbringer: Yeah, I'm currently working up an army list of Orcs and I'm deciding who to bring under full command. I'll be putting the list up soon on the army lists forum, I don't think that I'll actually play the list but I want to get some experience in at organizing armies. Night Goblin Fanatics will be used.

theunwantedbeing
12-05-2007, 17:14
I dont like it when somebody calls an armybook a codex,it shows.

Arnizipal
12-05-2007, 17:19
If you're putting together an Orcs and Goblins list you have to put some thought in FC for Goblin units.
Night Goblins in small units (that is anything under 30 models) will flee if something as much as coughs in their general direction, so don't bother with a standard. It only gives your opponent an (almost) free 100 Victory Points.