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Huw_Dawson
13-05-2007, 19:02
Today, I had a go at a new card game. This will be my third* game I put money towards, and the fourth I've tried. The first three (In order) were Yu-Gi-Oh (Konami/UDE), followed by Duel Masters (2 Japanese Companies/WoTC), then a couple of games of M:TG (WoTC).

YGO held my interest for three years. However, cash-cow marketing by Konami and pitifully poor decisions by the game design team created overpowered card after overpowered card (Imagine W40K, but suddenly Space Marines get a new vehicle that destroys all other vehicles in one turn, for 200 points. Then, all the other codex's get it. And everybody can pick any unit from any codex.), I dropped it. It's even cheesier than 40k. It's even cheesier than a game of chess but your opponent has 15 queens.

Duel Masters... ugh. Poor design. Simplistic rules. Pathetic artwork. Terrible. I binned the cards after two games.

M:TG, the "greatest one"... Takes too long to play, is confusing, and it's player base act like no other card game is worth their time. Plus, after a few turns it becomes pathetically obvious who's winning, but it takes too long to win. It's redeeming factor was that it seemed balanced. And, if you had time to spend, pretty fun.

Now, I'm onto my fourth, and after a forray into the two greats of the genre, I visit a new kid, WoW:TCG. UDE to the core, with Blizzard's artists and crack game designers... Wow. It takes the best bits of YGO and M:TG, along with a bit of RPG and (I suspect) a bit of the VS system. Very neat, very shiny. Plus, the artwork along with the packaging for it's starter boxes is a great idea (No more carrying around knackered deck boxes, and spending money on card sleeves! Hooray!). It still needs some more play time to make up my mind, but I'm ponderous.

WoTC - owned by Hasbro. Has great points (DnD), but seems to have been using the same game design since the start of 1993.
UDE - Massive independent company. Has a cash cow in YGO, but with this new Blizzard licence (and their well founded VS system) they really seem to be pushing into WoTC's player base.

Only time will tell, but I have a feeling that WoTC is going to be fighting a rearguard unless they can make new products (which are not rushed, inbalanced rubbish like DM)...

- Huw

*Pokemon... I "played" that. Once. And the GBC game was pioneeringly good. But... no. Just no. I'm resisting the urge to set fire to my brain to get that game out of my mind/ >_>

PS: In addition, bear in mind that this is based on the starter decks for DM and WoW, intimate knowledge of YGO and three games using a basic deck in M:TG. M:TG is a game I may come back to, but not until WoTC pull their fingers out and put it in GameStation. If UDE can get both their games in there, why not them?

Aelyn
13-05-2007, 19:29
M:TG, the "greatest one"... Takes too long to play, is confusing, and it's player base act like no other card game is worth their time. Plus, after a few turns it becomes pathetically obvious who's winning, but it takes too long to win. It's redeeming factor was that it seemed balanced. And, if you had time to spend, pretty fun.
Magic is considered the greatest TCG by a lot of people for a number of reasons, but foremost among them is depth. It is one of the more confusing games to start playing (to date, I've played Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Star Wars, VS, Duel Masters and Magic, and Magic was the only one I was messing the rules up on after about ten games) but that's because the game system allows far more variation and intricacies than any other game.

Ironically, I found Magic takes the second least time once you know the rules after Star Wars. As for the pathetically obvious who's going to win... Magic is the game which is most likely to change from one aspect to another, a tension sadly missing from a lot of starter sets. Trust me, Magic's a lot more intricate and interesting than it seems at first.


PS: In addition, bear in mind that this is based on the starter decks for DM and WoW, intimate knowledge of YGO and three games using a basic deck in M:TG. M:TG is a game I may come back to, but not until WoTC pull their fingers out and put it in GameStation. If UDE can get both their games in there, why not them?One simple reason: WoW is set in the Warcraft universe, but Magic is set in its own. The fact that Magic isn't part of a franchise and doesn't use an existing trademark to boost its popularity, which games like WoW inevitably do, makes it a lot harder for places that aren't dedicated hobby stores to justify stocking it.

Note that Magic is the only one of the TCGs I mentioned above which doesn't have printed, televised or programmed appeal outside of the game itself. (I don't count the novels or MODO since they're intricately linked with the game itself)

I may come off a little fanboyish, but the fact is Magic held my interest with its potential more than any other game I've ever played after the same sort of time playing by a significant margin.

pwrgmrguard
14-05-2007, 02:02
I phased them through until i got to magic...when the card shop opened up in town and started holding real official wizards sacntioned tournements...i kept getting better. i started winnig tournements and that supports the hobby now. it really helps to have a good bunch of people near you, and close friends that play. it took 3 years for me to bcome really good with magic, but i love it so much now it was totally worth it.

Spangley Special
14-05-2007, 09:57
after a few turns it becomes pathetically obvious who's winning, but it takes too long to win.

ha ha, you should play my deck, i call it the Rocky deck, because its all about the comback, i'll ussually be losing for a good few turns and then my deck kicks in, although i have faced very quick decks, where games only last 2-3 turns how ever i've got quite a lot of stuff that allows me to prolong games

machine_recovered_meat
14-05-2007, 10:12
WOTC is the most profitable section of Hasbro. Magic is the sole reason for that - it's essentially a licence to print money after all.
You can buy M:TG boosters & starter packs in Tesco, that makes it pretty accessible.
The Star Trek CCG was pretty good fun, if you enjoy recreating Trek episodes, but TSR's Blood Wars is one of the most enjoyable ones I've ever played. 2-6 players, Planescape setting, buckets of fun. You'll never hear of it these days though.

devolutionary
14-05-2007, 10:16
Magic takes a long time to play? That's the fastest game I play! If you want long, pick up V:TES, the second longest running CCG and the first multi-player CCG, or A Game of Thrones, which has a thoroughly different dynamic.

From experience, WoW takes about the same time as MtG, since they're pretty close to being the same game.

Crube
14-05-2007, 10:21
I tried Magic a while ago, and could never really get in to it, or see what the fuss was all about to be honest.

Has it changed any in recent times?

There seems to be a bit of a following up here...

Gae'Mot
14-05-2007, 11:12
I've got a few Magic and WoW-TCG decks. I enjoy both and plan to keep it with those games (TCG's can drain your budget in no time).

Bombot
14-05-2007, 11:20
Best card game, in fact best game, I've played was Star Wars CCG - the Decipher one, not the WOTC one which pretty much bombed. Kicked Magic's behind if you ask me, but it was difficult to get into by the time the game was getting rid of the silly strategies.

That's Magic's strength - it just rumbles on with its card rotation and players can get into it at any point.

I've played a few other: Lord of the Rings, Magic, Pokemon and Vs. Of those, I liked Vs the best but stopped buying it because UDE were putting stuff out at a serisouly crazy rate.

The old CCG website I used to frequent (and occassionally drop in on) seems to have taken to the World of Warcraft card game, so I doubt it's bad. I'm just sticking with minis for now though.

Jedi152
14-05-2007, 11:24
M:TG can be long or short, depending on deck size and life - that's the beauty of it.

If we want a quick game we play 20 life and small decks, but i've played 100 life games with massive libraries that last for hours.

I think it's gone downhill a bit lately. I started playing in the mid 90's and loved it. I left the game for a while, and found it hard to get back into with the new decks and new rules, but i still have a whale of a time playing my old friends with my really old deck.

One of the good things about it is that my older deck can easily stand up to new ones.

Warden
14-05-2007, 14:48
Never eeally got into Magic myself, although i did play a lot of the Battletech CCG and the Star Trek one too.[dice0]

VanHel
15-05-2007, 03:59
Magic will always be around. It's the iconic card game much in the same way D&D is the iconic rpg. No matter how crap either of those get, they'll always be popular.

Bombot
15-05-2007, 08:32
Magic will always be around. It's the iconic card game much in the same way D&D is the iconic rpg. No matter how crap either of those get, they'll always be popular.

There's a 40k comment in there somewhere.

Warboss Snazgrod
15-05-2007, 08:37
Anyone remember the Shadowrun CCG?

Barbarossa
15-05-2007, 08:57
I've played M:tG a bit, but nowadays I only play Vampire: the Eternal Struggle. While it is rather complicated and games tend to be much longer than in Magic, I find it much more rewarding and tactical than Magic.

devolutionary
15-05-2007, 09:51
Good call Barbarossa :D Best CCG ever

Thanatos_elNyx
15-05-2007, 11:39
I've played Magic, Vs, Trek and a few others. The only one I'm still playing is Trek as Vs is dying and Magic is just in a constant loop of cards going out of date and so on so forth.
Star trek 2Ed is the most balanced game I have ever played and every affiliation in that game can compete at the highest level.

Next game of interest might be the Stargate TCG but I'm not sure I want to get into another CCg.

der_lex
15-05-2007, 13:42
I enjoy Magic...it also has the plus of probably not getting discontinued like the previous TCGs that I really enjoyed playing, the Wheel of Time tcg (which was a really good game) and the Buffy tcg (which was a lot of fun to play).

Krog Ironclaw
16-05-2007, 03:54
Magic sucks. Ive tried several times to get into it, bought booster after booster after booster and each time, the only thing that ended up appealing to me at all was the artwork. I love the art, every one is beautiful. But the gameplay is too boring.

pwrgmrguard
16-05-2007, 04:21
Krog, you realize that just buying boosters doesn't constitute an honest attempt at involving yourself in and enjoying the hobby? you need to find someone to get you started with the starter set. it is really a great introduction to the game...then pick up a theme deck or two... then start buying boosters. It really takes a while to understand the finer points of the game...i've been playing for i want to say 4 years now and i still consider myself nought more than just above a novice. I haven't won a tournement in years because i haven't kept up with it all that well and my mindset is out of date. luckily i have about 10 friends who play of all ages, some in their thirties or forties who help me stay up to date and competitive. it really requires a bunch of guys tyou can play againsto n a semi regualr basis, just like chess.

Krog Ironclaw
16-05-2007, 04:23
Krog, you realize that just buying boosters doesn't constitute an honest attempt at involving yourself in and enjoying the hobby? you need to find someone to get you started with the starter set. it is really a great introduction to the game...then pick up a theme deck or two... then start buying boosters. It really takes a while to understand the finer points of the game...i've been playing for i want to say 4 years now and i still consider myself nought more than just above a novice. I haven't won a tournement in years because i haven't kept up with it all that well and my mindset is out of date. luckily i have about 10 friends who play of all ages, some in their thirties or forties who help me stay up to date and competitive. it really requires a bunch of guys tyou can play againsto n a semi regualr basis, just like chess.

I bought starters too. But rather than buy starter after starter after starter, I bought boosters. I figured it would be uns=derstood that I bought a starter to begin with. Guess not lol.

pwrgmrguard
16-05-2007, 04:39
did you buy a theme deck or the starter set that comes with two decks? The starter set that is produced in every core edition is the thing to begin with. As long as you tried, do whatever works for you.

Krog Ironclaw
16-05-2007, 07:25
did you buy a theme deck or the starter set that comes with two decks? The starter set that is produced in every core edition is the thing to begin with. As long as you tried, do whatever works for you.

I bought the actual Starter set to begin with (way back in the day). Bought a few boosters to add to it, and when that didn't work, I moved onto decks. Bought three or four I think. Fell out of the hobby for a couple of years, and tried to get back into it last year. Bought a Dissension bigbox (or whatever it's called, deck, boosters, and a novel IIRC). Built a decent deck, actually won a couple of games, but still didn't pique my interest enough to keep me in the game.