PDA

View Full Version : Competition to Games Workshop games?



Pious Hearts
14-05-2007, 13:24
What are the alternative competitions to GW games such as 40k, Fantasy, Space Hulk, Epic, Man o War etc and why do some people think that they are good alternatives?

Im a vet gamer, no desire to criticise GW as I have had many good years of their product - Im just curious which games people see as alternatives, and why they may be perceived as good alternatives.

Cheers!

Pious Hearts

AMBS
14-05-2007, 13:27
Warmachine is GW's greatest competition.

Why is it great?
1) Mike McVey
2) Superb Miniatures
3) Hardly any flash
4) Very tactical gaming system that isn't so heavily luck based.

Pious Hearts
14-05-2007, 13:50
Thanks for reply - will have a look at it.

Osbad
14-05-2007, 13:51
AT-43 is coming up as a strong contender. Pre-painted plastics, pretty nice sculpts with OK paint jobs that you can plonk straight on the table and play a decent game with for prices roughly equivalent to unpainted metal models. That has its obvious appeal to many.

Armies of Arcana: a "tighter" ruleset to WFB that appeals to the more competitively-minded and those who disapprove of "codex/Army-book creep". Cheap to buy and you can use any figures you like.

Starship Troopers from Mongoose. Standard Sci-fi, but with models (including plastics) that are arguably as nice as GW's but cheaper.

Confrontation. Bloomin' marvellous figures if you like the "continental" very elaborate style. Translation issues with rulebook, but underlying is a solid game with interesting fluff.

Full Thrust by Ground Zero Games. Nice space-ship game. Much cheaper models than GW and a different gameplay to BFG. You can construct any ships from any universe into the ruleset - so you can play in the 41st millennium with BFG ships if you want, or Star Trek, or Star Wars or use GZG's own universe.

And more....

Too many to mention.

Personally I have played many GW games and many from other manufacturers.

GW have the advantage of convenience and familiarity. With t'internet though accessibility to productisn't a problem though getting gaming buddies may still be if you can't find/start up a local group.

Attractiveness of alternatives varies. For me though I like variety - The thought of playing one game for the rest of my life and tying myself to one manufacturer is just not my thing.

If its a good game I'll play it, and anything else thats good. If its not a good game (or costs more to get into than the perceived experience will warrant) then I don't bother.

FOr me that is the main attractiveness of many alternatives to GW , given I dislike plastics. Also I llike the alternative milieu on offer. I don't want only to game in the Warhammer World or the 4st millenium , or Middle-earth. I also like Ancient Britain, Victorian Sci-fi and other environments.

There's a lot to be said for GW, but until you've given other worlds a go, then its like saying you like beer but have only drunk Carlsberg... You may find it is nice, but there's a lot more variety out there!

AMBS
14-05-2007, 15:21
Warmachine dominated SALUTE 07 with the best stand around and 4 demo tables.

If there's a wargames show on near you soon, I suggest you go to it and give the game a try.

scarletsquig
14-05-2007, 15:40
There is no competition, put blunty.

No other miniatures company is currently operating on the same scale as GW.

There are alternatives, for sure, but I'm not about to say they're better than 40k or fantasy or Mordheim, because I like and play those games too. Plus, I think being overzealous and attacking someone else's gaming preferences is a bad way of going about things.

I collect Full Thrust, Metropolis and used to buy some of the Mage-knight / Battletech stuff.

It's no coincidence that the rules for all 3 of those are available completely free to download over the internet, and the initial cost is low.

I got into all of them on the grounds of friends at my club convincing me.. apart from urban war/ metropolis where I just downloaded a whole crapload of free rules/ magazines/ fanzines/ background from the site and got totally absorbed by it.

Full thrust, mage knight and mechwarrior were more of a case of:

"15 to have a force that I can actually start gaming with?"

"Free rules?"

"Sure, why not, I'll give it a go" :D

I think warmachine is also similar. I really wanted to get into this, but looking at the 7-a-figure prices for the gorgeous looking new pirate figures is making me take a step back - I think I'm still going to get into it, but at a slower rate, and the game seems to support a fun system of low-points value matches, so I'll probably pick up the pirate warjacks and caster first then expand from there with the more expensive (points to ratio) infantry. Something for the summer, anyway.

So, that pretty much sums it up - 2 main factors for me are:

1. Gorgeous models.
2. Affordable.

The rules system is also important to some extent. I couldn't make any sense out of the urban war rules (especially the close combat section), but now Metropolis is out, and it's crystal clear to understand, and a solid, working system.

However, I also like the current direction warhammer fantasy and 40k are moving in.

Everything is going plastic, which, in the long term, will start to reduce the prices for the majority of what people buy in bulk to get an army going. I don't think anyone can look at the new 100/ $200 gigantic boxes of dwarves and orcs and say that they're not decent value for money.

Spacemunkie
14-05-2007, 16:58
Warmachine is GW's greatest competition.

Why is it great?
1) Mike McVey



Mike McVey and his mrs have quit PP despite what they say on their boards. They're moving back to the UK apparently. They'll be difficult to replace I reckon.

AMBS
14-05-2007, 17:05
I'm very surprised to hear that. Can't imagine why tbh.

dodicula
14-05-2007, 17:13
I think besides PP, Flames of War is taking a bite out of profits.
I think the other interesting thing with GW is that other companies are competing with parts of GWs business:

AoA for fantasy Rules
Rackham/PP/Foundry/a ton of smaller companies for Fantasy and now sci-fi miniatures
Still no good alternative sci-fi system, starship troopers looks promising

Spacemunkie
14-05-2007, 17:21
Infinity and Urban War are both good systems.

I've been informed that AT-43 is also entertaining.

So there are alternatives, it just needs people to switch on to them.

Vic
14-05-2007, 17:42
I've been keen on FOW lately. 2500+ pts for both American and German forces. Now looking at getting scenery in that scale....

dodicula
14-05-2007, 18:10
I don't know I've read through infinity and Urban war, and both still seem like line em up and shoot games with not much detail. Plus they look to be organized for skirmish not platoon or company level fights.

AMBS
14-05-2007, 18:11
INFINITY was a pile of ****.
Played it at SALUTE and figured how to totally abuse it by the 2nd turn.

Necromunda will always be the king of sci-fi skirmish.

Grimshawl
14-05-2007, 19:05
Too true, Necromunda is the greatest sci fi skimish game I have ever played.

Pokpoko
14-05-2007, 19:21
umm.it's set in the Grim Darkness of the 41st Millenium. it's Fantasy in Space , not proper SF:p

Damien 1427
14-05-2007, 19:50
Depends. Warmachine is, to me, a different beast to 40k. It's a tournie game, rock solid rules and pretty perfectly balanced (Compared to the holes in 40k one can drive a Land Raider through), at the cost of being as flexible as a brick. The infantry are usually good, but the 'jacks are sadly either amazing or terrible, with a lot of the earlier designs being utter pigs (My Khador 'jacks from the starter box had gaps of over a bloody millimetre!) to put together.

Warmachine could cause problems down the line, as PP are in my eyes the Apple to GW's Microsoft. Both evil empires, but PP are smaller and are growing like wildfire. I imagine GW will be keeping a close eye on them, despite having a monumentally larger fanbase.

Darnok
14-05-2007, 20:40
For Epic I'd say: Flames of War. You have to like the historic WW2-setting, but other than that it looks like a solid game. It's pretty strong in my favourite Indy at home.

grickherder
14-05-2007, 23:12
There is no competition, put blunty.

No other miniatures company is currently operating on the same scale as GW.

That doesn't meant there's no competition.

If I have a shiney handful of bills to spend on miniatures and I choose another company, regardless of their size, they are competition.

GW shares your idea that they have no competition. In my opinon that has allowed them to become outflanked. Other "by gamers for gamers" companies have popped up and are taking a big chomp out of GW.

The first sign that things are taking their toll will be GW having a profit warning, having trouble making their dividend payments, massive layoffs and closing large amounts of stores.

Wait a minute... that's already happening!

Aundae
15-05-2007, 07:27
I was kind of interested in Warlord by Reaper because they have some beautiful miniatures. No one in my gaming area other than me is interested in it though. :cries:

The game is afoot
15-05-2007, 07:52
Alternatives to play other than GW games...

Firstly I take it have you been through the specialist games in GW?
I'm only asking because they do some good games it's just that a lot of people miss them because they don't get supported.
I think that Space Hulk (especially first edition), Mordheim and the defunct Man O War are superb games and all reasonably quick to pick up and play.

So on to other companies...

For 'Space Ship' Games it's very hard to go past "Full Thrust" by 'Ground Zero Games'.
Free by download, Yehar.
I bought the rulebook and a supprt text and they were very inexpensive and well laid out.
Accurate point allocation formula based design. You can use the formula to design your own ships and the limit is your imagination.
FT has won loads of awards over the years for its slick design.

'War Machine' looks like fun, I had my first and second games last night and I thought it was quite a clever little game.
It keeps a sort of chess aspect in it because you have a Warcaster and if he goes it's like the King in Chess... Gameover.
I liked it. I enjoyed it.
The 'future' is not my genre of choice but as an alternative to 40k it is a much cleverer design and you don't have to buy many models to play the game, or loads of codeces so it saves your pocket.
It certainly seems to be converting a lot of 40K players and it was a real success at Salute 07 a few weeks ago.

...for a Ranked up miniature fantasy game....you know it people.....

'Armies of Arcana' !! (heheheheh sorry...:D ) by Thanes Games.

This is my favoured genre and to my mind this is a killer rule set and like Full Thrust it comes with a clever well developed points allocation formula so every army starts on a level playing field.
Any miniatures from any manufacturer are welcome.
It is not brand specific.
Buy one inexpensive rulebook and you get all the rules, 15 official army lists and the formula for points allocation should you wish to design your own creations or represent models that have been made obsolete in other game systems.

The limit is your imagination.
Some of the lists are Historically based.
All historical armies and miniatures are playable alongside their Fantasy counterparts.
There is more and it's for 'free' from the website.
(please note it does not come with free steak knives.)
It can be played in 15mm (DBM size) or 28mm (heroic scale) and it lends itself comfortably to bigger points games without bogging down.
It suits all kind of gaming from a friendly in your garage to Campaign games, a League format or a tournament situation.

For a non-ranked up miniature fantasy game (skirmish based) there is the little brother of War Machine called 'Hordes of the Things'.
I played it at Salute and it's visually stimulating and I have to say in Fantasy it just doesn't work as well as 'War Machine' does in the futuristic steam punk realm.
They do make some cracking models for it though (I love their trolls) and the models from 'hordes' can cross into 'WM' which is a cool design feature.

Rackham make 'Confrontation' which is also a 'skirmish based Fantasy' game that plays better than 'Hordes' and they make some really exquisite models.

Please note that GW , Rackham and Privateer Press models are all expensive to purchase, the latter two have a saving grace in that you don't need to buy so many models to play and you don't need to buy extra written support material.

Keravin
15-05-2007, 10:36
Hordes is just called Hordes.

Hordes of the Things was a radio show.

t-tauri
15-05-2007, 11:05
Hordes of the Things is a WRG fantasy ruleset.

VetSgtNamaan
15-05-2007, 16:56
True my favourite Sci mini's game is called Stryker II, it has no points for anything simple a listing of all the weapons and such in the rpg it was spawned from and lets you use any type of minature you wish. Of course GDW the company that made it has long since been out of business but I love thier rules. As well Brilliant lances is an excellent starship combat simulator quite realitic a fun evenings of play for sure.

GW has huge competition but it is mostly from thier own incompetance and poor public image than any other company. Being at the top of the heap for so long has made them lazy and sloppy, it has happend to many companies before and likely to happen to many more in the future.

The cost of thier mini plus thier market penetration means that they have a good resale value and thusly people like me who might have bought more from GW are more likely to buy on ebay or from friends because as people move away from GW (not just because GW sucks either most of my friends get out of it because of time and or familial commitements) they sell the stuff they figure will get them some money. I am in the process of getting a friends rather large all metal imperial guard army, he has a platoon of every regiment most of it in metal. He loves his guard but he rarely plays them at all any more and his wife wants him to get rid of the stuff he is never going to use. So inorder to get his flames of war he needs to get rid of some GW.

So now I get to save hundreds of dollars because I can get all those models I wanted without having to bitz order them.

SaintRigger
15-05-2007, 17:48
There are numerous figure companies out there who simply make figure ranges to be used with other rule sets.

This means that someone can pick up some Pig Iron troopers and use them as guardsmen for 40k, or play another rule set like Defiance from MJ12.

Same is true with fantasy - there are tons of companies that release fantasy miniatures that look just as nice as GW figures, but cost considerably less.

I think GW is getting hammered because 1) The way they have priced themselves it is easy for a startup who may have a greater cost of production to waltz in with a cool line and take dollars away from GW. 2) Dropped support for their specialist games which so many people have come to love. I can understand from a retailer point of view that blood bowl figures often become peg warmers, but I can think of at least 3 other companies who are producing fantasy football figures currently. I myself have a team of Nuns. 3) Mistreating their vets or not - there is still the negative image they need to overcome. They have alienated a bunch of players for whatever reason (justified or not) - when you see groups of people bashing GW, this is one of their biggest complaints. If they did or didn't is irrelevant, really - the simple fact is they have a huge PR campaign they need to wage. They are suffering from image problems and this is again letting other companies in to siphon dollars away from them.

They can only put blinders on new players for so long - getting them to believe they are the only game in town - especially in the age of the internet. I've seen tons of new players who were very pro-GW simply because they didn't know anything else existed. Soon they found other miniatures, and then other games and GW has lost another batch of players. They might say "Who cares, we have their money in their initial investment- on to the next batch of kids" but this isn't a good way to maintain a business.

I personally hope GW turns iteself about - I'd be really sad if one day I couldn't get my space marines anywhere. :(

The game is afoot
15-05-2007, 20:40
Hordes is just called Hordes.

Hordes of the Things was a radio show.

Sorry, my bad.:skull:

ashc
15-05-2007, 20:49
Hordes isn't even really a 'fantasy' version of warmachine; its all set in the same universe, even with characters from one interacting with the other; Its all steampunk, Hordes just concentrates on beasties more than machine things. If anything WM/Hordes bridges that gap between playing fantasy and 40k.

I also just like Hordes better; love the Fury system over the Focus system (I play trolls, so i get awesome model range too).

There are a lot of skirmishy type scifi out there, but nothing on the scale of GW; they could probably smack them all up with a decent rerelease of Necromunda that was fully supported.

in that sense 40k is certainly still the 'big thing' for scifi gaming.

fantasy has a smaller fanbase than 40k anyway, but i would imagine the real threats to this would be the likes of Confrontation/Ragnarok and any type of historical gaming.

There is no way AOA will be rivalling GW *yet*; many are moving their warhammer armies to use them in AOA and may still buy models from GW to expand those, but once you start looking at the great wide world of whats out there model-wise, AOA could well start building up quickly and the cash will no longer be going in to GWs already dwindling till sales.

Ash

Gaebriel
15-05-2007, 21:41
Well, perhaps people will continue buying GW miniatures to use with Armies of Arcana...

Technically, GW could give squat about their gamesystems selling. I guess if they marketed their models universally, they would make a Penny out of that as well.

ashc
15-05-2007, 21:44
Possibly; but then you go back to price arguments and thats a whole different kettle of fish; If people had free reign of miniature ranges, would people be buying from GW with the current price of miniature ranges (not just from GW, but universally)?

A lot of people already shop around for alternatives to GW miniatures if they are not playing in an enforced 'its a GW game so you use GW models only' environment.

Ash

The game is afoot
15-05-2007, 21:45
(I play trolls, so i get awesome model range too).

You gotta love those PP Trolls.


There is no way AOA will be rivalling GW *yet*; many are moving their warhammer armies to use them in AOA and may still buy models from GW to expand those, but once you start looking at the great wide world of whats out there model-wise, AOA could well start building up quickly and the cash will no longer be going in to GWs already dwindling till sales.

Well it's possible but in all honesty I don't think that AoA is ever going to be a big seller to children like 40K is, it's a little too tough for them.
AoA is designed for the adult market and it's marketing is way behind the glossy pages of the big players.
I don't see AoA getting particularly big in GW terms, but it can certainly be a success in the older gamer niche.


Well, perhaps people will continue buying GW miniatures to use with Armies of Arcana...

Technically, GW could give squat about their gamesystems selling. I guess if they marketed their models universally, they would make a Penny out of that as well.

Dead right Gabe.
Armies of Arcana is a symbiote.
People can enjoy the superb system and use ANY models from anywhere and that does indeed include GW.
AoA is not a true competitor like other systems that are 'brand specific'.
AoA is a ruleset that needs miniatures, historical or Fantasy, from ANY manufacturer.

ashc
15-05-2007, 21:48
Well it's possible but in all honesty I don't think that AoA is ever going to be a big seller to children like 40K is, it's a little too tough for them.
AoA is designed for the adult market and it's marketing is way behind the glossy pages of the big players.
I don't see AoA getting particularly big in GW terms, but it can certainly be a success in the older gamer niche.

I think this is the crux of it though; surely WHFBs player base is really the older, more mature gamer anyway?

There is some food for thought.

Ash

Gaebriel
15-05-2007, 21:53
...
I don't see AoA getting particularly big in GW terms, but it can certainly be a success in the older gamer niche.
And judging by the historical scene, the older gamer niche is not that small...

Bob5000
15-05-2007, 22:14
Thanks to the Posters who mentioned Full Thrust . I have been tempted by BFG for a while now , but the rules appeared rather more complex than I want .
Downloaded the rules for Full Thrust , and it looks like a system I can get along with

The game is afoot
15-05-2007, 22:24
@Bob 5000, you're gonna love it.
It's a wicked system.

SaintRigger
15-05-2007, 22:26
And judging by the historical scene, the older gamer niche is not that small...

There are a few really big historical conventions here in the US.

Strangely enough - Warhammer Ancients is a fantastic and much loved ruleset amongst historical gamers. ;)

Not so much with Warhammer Fantasy, however.

Bob5000
15-05-2007, 22:36
@ The game is afoot :
I'm getting quite excited already with the possibilites :) , it looks like a very flexible rules-set .

scarletsquig
16-05-2007, 04:32
Be sure to use the vector movement rules... they make for a much better (and realistic!) game than the regular rules, since they force you to think in advance about where your velocity will be taking you in the next turn, along with predicting where your opponent will end up based on their current course.

Plus it's fun to whizz around the table for a bit then accidentally fly off the board :)

grickherder
16-05-2007, 05:42
@ The game is afoot :
I'm getting quite excited already with the possibilites :) , it looks like a very flexible rules-set .

And the ships available from GZG are pretty amazing as well.

I was shocked when I ordered, to discover that being outside the UK or Europe, I wasn't subject to their VAT and the difference completely covered the cost of shipping. I effectively got free shipping and paid less than their listed prices.

But remember, if you reread GW's investor relations releases, they says that GW has no competition. :D

The game is afoot
16-05-2007, 06:55
I saw their ship models a while back at a convention here in the UK and I was bit non plussed by the sculpts.... then I saw some painted up and was shocked at how good they looked.
So I bought some and thought they were pretty average again and then painted them up and was once again surprised at how good they looked on the table top.

Oh and Grick, if you deny competition then you have none... in Bizarro world.

Pious Hearts
16-05-2007, 09:37
If only there was enough time to play all the games!!! Thanks for the comments...

ashc
16-05-2007, 10:34
If only there was enough time to play all the games!!! Thanks for the comments...

Not to mention if you also card play, rpg, and larp.... need to add a couple of extra days to a 7-day week :(

Ash

rev
16-05-2007, 10:41
There is no competition, put blunty.


I'm inclined to agree.

Though a huge fan of both AT-43 and Confrontations mini ranges, you need to be more than a casual veteran gamer to plug yourself into the networks that support them as games systems.

Unlike GW systems, which can be played at the drop of a hat, practically off the street - the competing systems networks seem to be harder to get involved in (though i'm sure members of these networks will disagree).

rev

ashc
16-05-2007, 10:45
There may not be one major competitor currently, but I do think all these little pinpricks of lost revenue from all those smaller games are slowly killing the big old GW beastie.

Ash

Thommy H
16-05-2007, 12:44
Hordes is just called Hordes.

Hordes of the Things was a radio show.

Actually there's a set of wargames rules called "Hordes of the Things" too.

Osbad
16-05-2007, 12:46
the competing systems networks seem to be harder to get involved in (though i'm sure members of these networks will disagree).


It depends on circumstances. If I was the kind of person who fancied playing games in store, then sure GW games would be "easy to get involved in". However I am not. I prefer playing at home with my mates, in which case buying off the internet and painting up a 3-figure introductory boxed set of Warmachine is a LOT easier than waiting until I had the BFM, BFSP or MoM sets all painted up and ready.

OK, so there are other "easy entry" games available from GW, but really, the only advantage they hold is the GW store on every High Street. But if you are of a certain mentality then the last place you want to play a game is your standard GW store. I have played a couple of games of necessity in a Battle Bunker, but speaking personally it isn't the kind of relaxing, fun environment that I find conducive to play.

Once you take the stores out of the equation, then GW are no more accessible than anyone else. Most clubs I am aware of play a variety of games, not just GW, so its easy to get started with FOW, Confrontation, Urban War, or whatever is being played at the time.

ashc
16-05-2007, 12:55
I completely concurr with Osbad; here in Leeds the wargaming section of the fantasy and scifi soc never play in the GW store; we would rather play other games whenever we like wherever we like.

But then I think game store environment is a completely different topic... ;)

Ash

SaintRigger
16-05-2007, 14:16
There may not be one major competitor currently, but I do think all these little pinpricks of lost revenue from all those smaller games are slowly killing the big old GW beastie.

Ash


Yes, it's the "Death by a 1000 cuts" philosophy. Or if you are indian - a mosquito can kill an elephant if there are enough of them, or he bites the elephant enough.

Basically all the little competetors - the companies that make miniatures that people use in plce of GW models, or the groups who make rule sets to use with GW models, but in place of the GW rules will eventually topple the empire. For every one larger company like Privateer Press, there are 10 more small little companies like Pig Iron or BlackTree

What happens when all of the sudden you arne't selling very many models because people have found cheaper alternatives that are just as nice - and the models that you do sell are being used for other game systems?

I reckon you post a warning that profits are down and start liquidating assets.

swordwind
16-05-2007, 18:05
I personally prefer Warmachine to WFB and Starship Troopers to 40k. I just like being able to shoot back before my entire army is rended to death in the first turn.

Crube
16-05-2007, 18:20
Interesting thread...

One game I'd add is Wargods.

Not that easy to get hold of over here, but a stonking game by the looks of it.

20 for a rulebook the size of WFB - and some amazing minis to back it up

Adept
16-05-2007, 21:51
Interesting thread...

One game I'd add is Wargods.

Not that easy to get hold of over here, but a stonking game by the looks of it.

20 for a rulebook the size of WFB - and some amazing minis to back it up

Plus, those new Wargods of Olympus Spartans look dead sexy!

stonehorse
16-05-2007, 23:14
Hi long time lurker.

I think there is now more competition to GW's monopoly in the hobby, due to the Internet, mixed with their treatment to veterans of the hobby, who have then gone on to either create a new company or take their trade elsewhere.

Crocodile Games, Mongoose Publishing, Privateer Press, Rackham, and Corvis Bell are just a few companies who wouldn’t have been able to be what they are in a pre-internet age (late 80’s to early 90’s… the Internet was around before these dates, just not to the public at large).

As another member has said, the Internet is showing GW to be the aged behemoth a top a pile of gold that they really are.

Warmachine and Hordes seem to be very popular game systems; at the Leeds club it’s more common to see games of Warmachine and Hordes then any other game system. 40K only seems to get played by the younger members (12-16 years of age). Don’t get me wrong I play most GW games from time to time.

AT-43 looks to take the fallen crown of Starship Troopers after Mongoose Publishing shot themselves in the foot. It’s still a young game with only 4 factions known of and only 2 playable so far. Given time I’m sure it will go from strength to strength… those crazy French and their out of this world models.

Starship Troopers as I’ve already mentioned is a bit of a debacle at the moment. I’m a big fan of the first edition of this game system, I’m not sure that Starship Troopers Evolution will take off in my gaming area due to Mongoose near enough dropping it half way through 1st edition and releasing some terrible models.

These are the current game systems that seem to be the biggest competition to 40K, thing to note about AT-43 and Starship Troopers is that they are Sci-Fi, where as 40K is a Sci-Fantasy... just like the film Krull.

Think I have at least 1 army from the companies I have mentioned… and one day I’ll have them all painted or so I keep telling myself! :-)

Stuart-GreatEscapeGames
17-05-2007, 00:42
And there's a growing following for the newer WWII gaming systems which seem to appeal to those wanting more from their wargaming than GW can offer...

grickherder
17-05-2007, 04:06
Plus, those new Wargods of Olympus Spartans look dead sexy!

You are not kidding.

http://www.twfigurines.de/wargods/spantansall1.jpg

The game is afoot
17-05-2007, 06:53
There are a few really big historical conventions here in the US.

Strangely enough - Warhammer Ancients is a fantastic and much loved ruleset amongst historical gamers. ;)

Not so much with Warhammer Fantasy, however.

It's been interesting to note the slowly increasing interest from WAB players here in the UK in the Armies of Arcana ruleset.
WAB is Warhammer without magic.
AoA is a more realistic ruleset and when you take the magic out of AoA it becomes a superb historical ruleset.
It has much more evenly balanced ancient armies than WAB because it can piut the historical troops through the CCF (Formula) and get accurate representations of the troop type for an accurate points costing.
A major gripe of WAB players inthe last few years has been the power creep in the Army books, the 'Vlad the Impaler' book being a classic example.
However some have discovered that AoA gives them a better balanced and more realistic "Engine" and magic can be clipped off and yet you can still get accurate points values.
Those WAB players are not slow you know.;)

Spacemunkie
17-05-2007, 18:30
Just as a heads up, I haven't played the game yet, but I've ordered a set of the unpainted figs from the box:

Tannhauser (http://www.tannhauser-thegame.com/)

And a link to a US site that will distribute the English language version:

Tannhauser @ Fantasy Flight Games
(http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/tannhauser_about.html)

Here's a pic of the figs in the box:
http://www.tannhauser-thegame.com/databank/Image/vpc/unpainted-set3.jpg

Looks as though it'll appeal to Space Hulk / Hybrid type fans....

Brandir
17-05-2007, 20:53
GW employs what, 3000 (well, soon to be 2700!).

PP employs about 70.

Rackham about 50.

Yes, PP emplyes a few sculptors and artists as freelancers whilst GW tends to emply inhouse.

But gives one an idea of the scale we are talking.

Asmith
17-05-2007, 20:59
What percentage of that is retail people though?

The game is afoot
17-05-2007, 22:05
Sweet sculpts Spacemunkie... anyone for a little tabletop 'Hellboy'?

Damien 1427
17-05-2007, 22:50
Add Lobster Johnson, and I'd be up for that TGIA.

The game is afoot
18-05-2007, 06:05
you need to be more than a casual veteran gamer to plug yourself into the networks that support them as games systems.


I think this depends upon circumstances.
If you are in proximity of a GW store then picking up GW games will be easier. There will be someone to teach you the basics etcetc.

Once you are an adult with a little experience in gaming and can attend clubs etc then the Internet has opened up the territory so that anything goes as long as you can find opponennts in that system.
Pre-internet it was a lot harder to find 'other games' let alone people to play them.
Now it's all changed...