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Jedi152
15-05-2007, 13:07
We're all thankful that the SG rulebooks have gone online, but taking them to games is a problem. I don't fancy printing 100+ pages on my knackered old printer, so i was thinking of paying to get them professionally printed and bound.

A quick look at this (http://www.hollingworthmoss.co.uk/thesis-binding-prices.htm) page and a quick calculation makes out that the Necromunda rulebook (120 page, black and white) would cost 10.50 to print and bind in standard 'comb' binding (Ok, so i know it's a thesis binding page, but i would have thought the prices are much the same). Which isn't too bad.

Has anyone tried this? What are the results?

are there any potential copyright issues at play here?

Osbad
15-05-2007, 13:13
I'm lucky in that I have access to a decent double-sided laser printer and ring binder at work, so I've done all sorts of stuff on it. The results are great. I much prefer a ringbound set of rules which will stay open on the table top and not flip shut at an inconvenient moment. I have in the past been know to remove the binding from "proper" books and rebind them as ringbinders for this very reason.

The only "downside" as I see it from laser-printed books is that they tend to leave a white border around the edge, which spoils the look a little. But this isn't a big deal for me. Also some of the GW PDF's are a bit ropey with printing information scattered around the edge or something. They have been getting better at removing that kind of stuff though recently.

As for copyright, if you are doing it for personal use and not for resale, I can't see a problem. You might want to check the legal gubbins that pops up when you go to the download page to be sure though.

Not sure how a store manager would look on it if you were playing in a local store, but as with all aspects of SG in-store, it will likely vary with the manager. As they are legal copies of the rules, and they are GW games he *shouldn't* have a problem, but it is ultimately up to his discretion what he allows to go on in his store.

Charax
15-05-2007, 13:14
well, the front of the Inquisitor LRB says:
"No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted in any form or by any means,
electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording or otherwise, without the prior permission of Games Workshop. Games Workshop Ltd. 2004."

Which I would imagine would cause problems with any potential printers/binders - however the Necro LRB has no such clause in it.

Personally I'd just print it all and heat-bind it (the machines for heat-binding are quite cheap now, and I did the same with some Mongoose e-books from a while ago) or use a ring binder

Bombot
15-05-2007, 13:15
I'm pretty sure you're allowed to do this. Anyway, I did. But I was cheeky and did at work so it cost me 0.00. 10.50 doesn't sound too bad though.

EDIT - oh, maybe you aren't supposed to do it then. I found the Terms and Conditions:

"2. The File may not be reproduced, sold, transferred, or modified.

3. A single copy may be downloaded and stored temporarily on a single PC for personal, non-commercial, educational or research use and reference. Additional copies, whether electronic or otherwise, may not be made or distributed without the advance, written permission of Games Workshop Limited. You may, however, provide any person with the URL of the Games Workshop Limited Web Site or a hyperlink to the pertinent portions of said Site (Deeplinking or bandwidth theft excepted)"

Bloodknight
15-05-2007, 13:24
Its not as if most copy-shop owners cared about it. They do this for a living and wont forego the chance to earn a tenner...

Crube
15-05-2007, 13:28
It's tricky to carry an electronic set of the rules to a tournament though...

As for the ring binding of rulebooks, when BloodBowl first came out (and Dark Future IIRC) the rule books had markings for where to put your holes. Indeed, the pages even tore out nicely...

Jedi152
15-05-2007, 13:33
EDIT - oh, maybe you aren't supposed to do it then. I found the Terms and Conditions:

"2. The File may not be reproduced, sold, transferred, or modified.

3. A single copy may be downloaded and stored temporarily on a single PC for personal, non-commercial, educational or research use and reference. Additional copies, whether electronic or otherwise, may not be made or distributed without the advance, written permission of Games Workshop Limited. You may, however, provide any person with the URL of the Games Workshop Limited Web Site or a hyperlink to the pertinent portions of said Site (Deeplinking or bandwidth theft excepted)"
Hmm, sounds like they're not keen on it.

It's going to be an **** if you're not allowed, i'll just have to print out the relevant bits i suppose.


As for the ring binding of rulebooks, when BloodBowl first came out (and Dark Future IIRC) the rule books had markings for where to put your holes. Indeed, the pages even tore out nicely...
Waaagh the Orks! was similar. Either that, or it was craply bound. Mine sure dropped to bits fast after reading it.

Charax
15-05-2007, 13:36
well, PDAs are getting a lot cheaper these days, dump a load of PDFs onto one (the entire Inquisitor book and all articles weigh in at just over 53 Mb) and flick through while gaming.

Crube
15-05-2007, 13:36
Again, I have to say how are you meant to take an electronic copy of the rules to a GW Tournament, if you're not allowed to print off a copy?

Sure your mate's not going to be that bothered if you bring round a printout, but if GW run a SG weekend, or There's a Carnage event (BB or Necro) that is held at WHW...

Are they going to throw the book at you (no pun intended) for bringing a printout...?

Bombot
15-05-2007, 13:51
Crube, I think Charax is talking about electronic soft copies. They are allowed.

Bazhrak
15-05-2007, 15:32
You could bind it your self. It is quite easy in fact. just print the pages on A3 paper( four pages per paper) And stitch and glue it together.

Or ringbinding could be more convenient.

Agamemnon2
15-05-2007, 16:33
Again, I have to say how are you meant to take an electronic copy of the rules to a GW Tournament, if you're not allowed to print off a copy?

That's just their special way to discourage SG tournaments. You're forced to memorize all the rules.

Jedi152
15-05-2007, 16:54
We'll have to wait until the information pack is released to see how Lav intends to deal with it for the Carnage Social in September...

Coasty
15-05-2007, 18:23
They seem to be needlessly obstructive with this. The rules are available as a free downlad, but if you want to be able to use them you have to buy the book? That's just daft.

Charax
15-05-2007, 18:48
Stops people printing them off and selling them for eBay (which has apparently happened in the past - and I find that funny as hell).

Gaebriel
15-05-2007, 19:24
I think a GW employee had to be extremely anal to harass you for printing out a personal reference copy for yourself.

I would go with the intent - that you don't print, bind and then sell it.

RobC
15-05-2007, 19:56
Perhaps it's an oversight? Cock-up before conspiracy, and all that.

t-tauri
15-05-2007, 20:05
It's possible that if they allowed you to print off a copy of a pdf they couldn't then prevent you from selling it or some similar legal grey area. As Charax says it's most likely to prevent people with access to cheap printing and binding bootlegging cheap copies on ebay or in shops.

Coasty
15-05-2007, 21:37
Where would you findanyone gullible enough to buy a printout of a free dow- actually, never mind.

Mahwell Skel
16-05-2007, 11:49
As for the ring binding of rulebooks, when BloodBowl first came out (and Dark Future IIRC) the rule books had markings for where to put your holes. Indeed, the pages even tore out nicely...

White Line Fever (Dark Future expansion) wasn't even a book, it was a pad to be torn off and hole punched. It did have a hard book type of cover though that contained the handy reference info which was nice.

My copy of Slaves to Darkness was taken apart and hole punched (not by me).

CyberShadow
16-05-2007, 12:14
I think a GW employee had to be extremely anal to harass you for printing out a personal reference copy for yourself.

I would go with the intent - that you don't print, bind and then sell it.

I agree. Many companies set the regulations deliberately harsh so that this leaves them more room to decide what to actually 'prosecute' or let go out of 'good karma'.

I would say that printing and binding the rules for your own personal use is fine.