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gortexgunnerson
15-05-2007, 13:18
I am hoping to play a 4K war of the beard game against dodgy_ed, and was thinking of the options that are available to the High Elves.

I pretty much except that the High Elves have a long way to go before they catch up High Elves at 4K. Dwarfs scale very well High Elves do not, miscasts stop total all out magic and the troops are far too expensive to gain from High numbers. Once the dwarfs are entrenched and not easily flanked they will go Toe to Toe with the the High Elves and flatten them.

Hence I must ask what tactics are available to the High Elves, and have come to the conclusion that the only true chance is to recreate the charge of the light brigand;

I am thinking 1 Lord mounted dragon, 550
2 arch mages 800

2 Heros on eagles 300
4 Lv2s 600

loads of silver helms 600

couple of units of reaver and shadow warrirors 200

3 Dragon Princes 810

4 Eagles 200
2 Bolt throwers 200

So thats basically 4000 points in around 50 mdoels! Facing off against; (This is totally approiate guess work done at lunch but i suspect the army will include)

8 Bolt throwers
2 stone throwers
120 Str 4 missile troops
2*30 elites led by lords
2 *25 clansmen
2 * 10 Clasmen


Lord
2 *runelords

Engineers
Thanes

It can bring down 1-2 dragons a turn. Basically the Elves are doomed, but I cant think of another way to play this. I know the characters are very over priced but they are the only offensive models with a chance. Most likely I'll tweak the Lv2s down and put a few infantry blocks in with special roles.

But does anyone have a better idea, am playing a mildly competent general :skull: and a very experience dwarf player. But I think i can get an edge if we play in the day when hes sober and hence not firing on all cylinders

Dodgy Ed
16-05-2007, 19:11
You'll never catch me on a weekend when I'm sober:p

As it is you're unlikely to be facing 120 missile troops, remember its crossbows only so I'll max out at sixty, other than that you're not far off, it'll be similar to my 4k list I fought you with a few weeks back, but all black powder will be replaced by infantry:evilgrin: . As you've shared your provisional list I'll do likewise; so it should be
Char
2 Combat Lords
1 Runelord
4/5 Runesmiths
BSB
Core
100(give or take) Warriors
60 Crossbow dwarves
Special
27 Ironbreakers
29 Hammerers
8 Bolt throwers
2 Stone throwers
Rare
None not allowed them:mad:

I get the impression the game will come down to outrageous fortune, I have enough anti-magic to shut down your magic for a while, whilst you have a lot of flying stuff -I make that four dragons, and realistically I can only bring down three per turn.

So good luck, do you want to this next bank holiday (if not before)

I invite any members of the board to play theory-hammer and come up with what they think will happen -post up your theoretical bat-reps and we'll see if any of you are close

gortexgunnerson
17-05-2007, 12:44
No hammers I'm pretty sure, they weren't around appartently until the goblin wars or some trash like that. So I'll asume double ironbreakers. Also as found out last night can have 4 Lords so miht cut even more troops out lol 4K of characters and dragons, lets bring back the good old days of Herohammer!

the vicar
18-05-2007, 11:41
Good lord. 4 dragons?

Something like that depends completely on terrain, I'd imagine. If the HE player can get into the quarrellers' ranks, it won't be pretty for the Dwarfs.

In fact, thinking about it, with a judicious terrain placement, the HE player might just force the Dwarf player to string out his ranged weapons (in order to get all firing angles covered), thereby preventing the famous Dwarf block.

I'd love one of you guys to post a report on this.

gortexgunnerson
19-05-2007, 10:14
The High Elves stand no chance at all! I know, im playing them! The problem is that HE are not an army to face Dwarfs with they lack strength and dwarfs have the toughness, also they scale in points very badly as their good points such as magic dont work well at high points due to the increased chance of miscasts.

Then their is the war of beard upgrades which mean the Dwarfs can completely stop the magic phase. 5 runesmiths (Note smiths not lords) with runes of balance and dispels will provide 15 dispel dice and some not bad combat characters. 15 dice is more then enough to take the edge off any magic phase until miscast. The HE get extra monsters to combat this, thou as written for the old book doesn't factor the idea of Bolt throwers with BS4 without a character :(. That means that bolt throwers have an above 50% chance of wounding a drake at short range. 4 or 5 should statistically kill 1 drake a turn. So his 240-300 point investment can kill 270 points of my army a turn.

The terrain will be as book describes, 6 pieces nothing within 12" of the centre as im not of the school of recent tournments that warhammer is 40K and requires so much terrain. In the last 2 tournements I played; the top table in one had over 10 square feet of terrain on and the other had 12 pieces including 7 woods. And they wonder why it became so skirmish hammer in the last edition.

Theory hammer prediction

Set up, Dwarfs will stone wall a corner of the board with probably 2 or 3 pieces of artillery deployed in distant yet difficult to receach location. 2 units of ironbreakers will deploy in a block blocking infantry approach to the main bank of artillery and missiel troops. Clansmen will be placed ready to counter charge any dragons caught in combat by the 5 strong unbreakable crews of the warmachines. Artillery will be placed between units so that a monster base cannot fit between the dwarfs to attack them, crossbowmen bunched in units of 10 5*2. LOS being no issue due to the large target rule which allows everything to shoot past each other and in multply ranks.

HE will deploy as much of the army as possible in cover, with the dragons placed as in that vital 30" to 40" location preferable getting a few Bolt throwers out of range (thou unlikely due to the very small number of units I have to deploy).

Turn 1 and 2

HE hug terrain whilst magic attempts to slap as much artillery as possible and the dwarfs close down the phase with dispel runes. Losses, 4 units of silver helms (crossbows) Lord's dragon, 1 or 2 drakes. Dwarfs 4 or 5 artillery pieces 2 units of corssbows.

Turn 3 HE charge will eliminate a section of the remaining artillery.

Turn 4 to end
Now the game has a very knife edge point, The Dwarfs dont have too much fire power left, probably not enough to kill off the HE at any speed and the HE havent even got close to the combat punch to take any of the dwarf elite units. Magic phase will be slightly adventagous to the HE but not game deciding without luck (ie similar to dwarf remaining artillery). At this point the game will be taken off the board in a string of abusive comments about each other cowarly and beardy play (helped by the continued drinking from turns 1 to 3). I will feel bullied and charge the ironbreakers on around turn 6. My remainign dragons will be sorely kicked and will run run run away.

We will then retire to the pub and complain bitterly about the game for several hours as we become increasly drunk and I complain about having to go to work in the morning.

Written down I have no idea why I enjoy this, but it will be good days play and drinking

Oh option 2 and much more probably.
Turn 1 move, turn 2 land dragon in dwarf castle. Dwarfs all fail terror tests and run away being completely massacred by a fleet of flyers in the following turn. Remaining army is eaten by dragons! (thou this may sound unlikely you have never seen Ed take a fear/terror test. It really is his achilles heel). Playing doubles at mercenaries he failed every fear check with Dwarfs