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DarkLord Of Naggaroth
16-05-2007, 15:16
Thi is probably a straight forward answer.
I know there is a limit to how small a unit can be when starting the battle, but is it fine to just have units of 1, 2, or 3 just walking around the field charging units to prevent them from moving? Or is there are rule against this.
thank you

Crube
16-05-2007, 15:22
Each entry in an armylist will have a minimum size.

Normally it is around 5 or 10 models, but some larger monsters can have a unit size of 3, or things like Giants can be in units of 1

theunwantedbeing
16-05-2007, 15:27
Depends on the unit in question.
Crappy hoarde infantry is generally limited to 20+
Knights are generally 5+
and monsters are generally 1 per unit max.

Atrahasis
16-05-2007, 15:29
I know there is a limit to how small a unit can be when starting the battle,Congrats on readin the OP guys :)

No, there is no lower limit to the size of a unit once the game has begun. The only limitation is that units less than 25% of their original size cannot rally.

Crube
16-05-2007, 15:35
Doh

*sound of hand slapping forehead*

sorry Darklord...:rolleyes:

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
16-05-2007, 15:35
arrhhh. thankyou. that helps. I was just getting irritated that my huge 20+ units were getting stopped by one archer and messing up my tactics, but I suppose that will still hapen.

Edit: it's ok Crube, everybody gets completly drunk and loses sight at some time in their life. :D

Chicago Slim
16-05-2007, 17:14
DLoN, it's pretty rare that a lone archer charging an infantry block is likely to make any real difference:

The most likely outcome is that your static CR (ranks, numbers and banner) means that he loses combat by at least 4 points. So, he probably breaks, you probably restrain pursuit, and he'll never rally. Or, you kill him on the turn he charges. Either way-- Net effect: he's gone, and your unit is completely unaffected.

Now, if your big unit is a beast herd, or other skirmisher, then maybe his break test isn't so vile. Or, if you have a low leadership, maybe he can draw you into a pursuit that you'd rather not have to take. In those cases, I'd try to commit something small to making sure that he can't impede your main effort. But, otherwise, he's just not very likely to do anything effective, even if you completely ignore him.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
16-05-2007, 17:45
indeed. but even so, the point is, you could have lined up a charge that had to be done the next turn, but the man charged you meaning you probably can't move. So it doesn't matter if he dies or is gone the next turn, he has still held up your unit in what could have been very anoying circumstances.

but anyhow this thread has been helpful :)

khorne666
16-05-2007, 18:18
[QUOTE=theunwantedbeing;1561283]Crappy hoarde infantry is generally limited to 20+
QUOTE]

Sorry for going off topic but does anyone else think it strange that the only army list to actually include Hordes(of chaos) in it's name is one of the few armies that actually isn't hordes based?

Vattendroppe
16-05-2007, 19:14
DLoN, it's pretty rare that a lone archer charging an infantry block is likely to make any real difference:

That lone archer can be a real pain in the ass, he still marchblocks and you have to spend at least a turn to get rid of him if you don't shoot him.

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
16-05-2007, 20:32
[QUOTE=theunwantedbeing;1561283]Crappy hoarde infantry is generally limited to 20+
QUOTE]

Sorry for going off topic but does anyone else think it strange that the only army list to actually include Hordes(of chaos) in it's name is one of the few armies that actually isn't hordes based?

one of the few? I can only think of two. Orcs and skaven

Braad
16-05-2007, 20:53
Congrats on readin the OP guys :)

No, there is no lower limit to the size of a unit once the game has begun. The only limitation is that units less than 25% of their original size cannot rally.

Indeed.

Now, this pops into mind...
What if I have a unit that starts with 10.
There is also a character in it.

When the unit is reduced to 1 trooper and the character, it is not allowed to rally anymore. Imagine they go running...
But if somehow the one trooper is killed somewhere on the run, only the character remains. But is he then suddenly allowed to rally again? I think so... But is this not just a little bit strange?

Kadrium
16-05-2007, 21:29
I can't think of anything that would prevent the hero from rallying in that set of circumstances. Bizarre but quite possibly true.

Tutore
16-05-2007, 22:01
Indeed.

Now, this pops into mind...
What if I have a unit that starts with 10.
There is also a character in it.

When the unit is reduced to 1 trooper and the character, it is not allowed to rally anymore. Imagine they go running...
But if somehow the one trooper is killed somewhere on the run, only the character remains. But is he then suddenly allowed to rally again? I think so... But is this not just a little bit strange?

Interesting. Reason tells that the character should be able to rally alone, but rules say different.

Festus
16-05-2007, 22:15
Hi

The character can indeed try to rally as soon as the last trooper is gone, as he is not part of the unit anymore.

Festus

theunwantedbeing
17-05-2007, 00:04
Yeah you stop being part of a unit when that unit stops existing.

Atrahasis
17-05-2007, 00:05
Just to play a bit of devils advocate here (I know, its not like me but I feel like living dangerously :D), a character is part of a unit until he leaves it. If the unit is destroyed has he really left it?

theunwantedbeing
17-05-2007, 00:34
Yes,he has.
You cant be part of a unit that isnt there anymore.

Atrahasis
17-05-2007, 01:15
Yes,he has.
You cant be part of a unit that isnt there anymore.

Sure you can, when you're part of the unit 'til you leave it ;)

Templar Ben
17-05-2007, 01:59
Crappy hoarde infantry is generally limited to 20+


Sorry for going off topic but does anyone else think it strange that the only army list to actually include Hordes(of chaos) in it's name is one of the few armies that actually isn't hordes based?

How about the fact that they are dedicated to CHAOS and march in those nice organized rows?

theunwantedbeing
17-05-2007, 03:12
Hoardes of chaos are called hoardes of chaos beacuse there are hoardes of them,not beaucse their army has a hoarde style of play.

As for being part of a unit that has been destroyed and still fleeing......
RAW seems to sugguest that a character who was part of the unit who is fleeing,does not get to try to rally,as he's not 25% of the models in the original unit.
Not a huge problem as most times this happens when a character is with the unit it never suffer's more casualties once its fleeing.

Festus
17-05-2007, 09:08
Hi

Sure you can, when you're part of the unit 'til you leave it ;)
Advocatus diaboli tells us that you can ideed be part of an entity that does not exist anymore... Wow, does that mean that Satan does not exist?

Or that he exists and his adovocate doesn't?

Are they joined up? Or did they split? :p

But really: As soon as the last member of the unit is gone, there is no unit left to rally, there is only a character, who is free to rally as per the rules.
There is no *mystic trace of things which were there before* in WHFB. If you look at the table and there is a unit, then there is a unit. If you look at the table and there isn't, there isn't.

Festus

enyoss
17-05-2007, 09:36
Sure you can, when you're part of the unit 'til you leave it ;)


You've plumbed new depths there Atrahasis... that's a whopper of a technicality, even for you ;) :D.

I have seen this happen before though. Flames of the Phoenix made a unit (<25%) run, which was subsequently destroyed by the spell's effects in the next Magic Phase, leaving the accompanying character able to rally.

That's the last time I forget to end that spell! :)

Cheers,

enyoss

Festus
17-05-2007, 09:59
Hi

You've plumbed new depths there Atrahasis... that's a whopper of a technicality, even for you ;) :D.

I hope it doesn't spring a leak anytime soon, as it seems to be in the depths of a BurgerKing Restaurant :D

Festus

intellectawe
17-05-2007, 17:59
Thi is probably a straight forward answer.
I know there is a limit to how small a unit can be when starting the battle, but is it fine to just have units of 1, 2, or 3 just walking around the field charging units to prevent them from moving? Or is there are rule against this.
thank you

Read your army book. Each unit entry has a minimum amount of models allowed in the unit.

The rule against this would be the rule for each unit stating that it can't be lower than a set number.

enyoss
17-05-2007, 18:07
Again, well done reading the original post :).

Cheers,

enyoss

DarkLord Of Naggaroth
17-05-2007, 18:13
did I really put it that unclearly?
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

DeathlessDraich
17-05-2007, 18:15
We...ll, there is a variant on Atrahasis' rumination which is food for thought:

A unit of 5 originally joined by a character flees and is then reduced to just the character.

pg 19 "If the fleeing unit including any character has less than 25% ... cannot rally"

I find the phrase 'including any character' confusing and might possibly be a case for rendering the character unfit for rallying.

Atrahasis
17-05-2007, 18:20
Its really just a sloppy way of saying "When you count the 25%, make sure you count any characters too" :)

DeathlessDraich
17-05-2007, 18:34
But what is the accepted time lapse from the moment the 1 character unit changes from being a unit reduced to less than 25% to a single character unit.
The duration of the phase?

Festus
17-05-2007, 20:00
No, immediately.

Festus

intellectawe
17-05-2007, 20:09
Again, well done reading the original post :).

Cheers,

enyoss

Anything for a +1 :)