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View Full Version : Does everything have to have rules to be released?



violenceha
17-05-2007, 02:33
Was I the only one who started this hobby collecting cool miniatures rather than playing the games?
I remember back a few months short of 20 years ago, 1987, when I first discovered miniatures. There were two sections in my local novelty shop, squeezed into the back corner. One for miniatures, the other for roleplaying and rulebooks. I was about 10 and wandering about the store with nothing better to do and found the miniatures section, (the rulebook section was already populated by older guys with long hair and shabby beards), and was blown away by the cool stuff you could get. I had no idea what any of them were or what they were for, but they were awesome, so I bought one, an orc. I asked the shabby bearded guys what miniatures were for and got this indepth explanation. The part I picked up was "paint them". So I did.
Then I bought more. Different races, different brands, whatever was cool I bought. Had a massive collection in no time, didn't actually discover you could build armies with them until 1991. I was massively into skaven at the time, and got called over to the rulebook section by one of the bearded guys. I was the only kid so they all knew me and what I was into, and was pointed towards a magazine, "that's got a big article on skaven if you're interested", and I was. Andy Chambers skaven army. I still reread the article now. But it was the beginning of the end. All of a sudden I was buying stuff to fill gaps in armies, not because it was cool, and because it wasn't cool, it wouldn't get painted straight away, then later, at all.
Now I look at the GW range and wonder why, with all the sub divisions of GW catering to different aspects of the hobby, black library, forge world,etc.. where is the section who's imagaination is allowed to run wild sculpting miniatures that are just cool and not designed to fit within a gaming rule system?
I think this is my biggest gripe as a 'vet' and why I've gone back to buying stuff from other companies. I just want cool stuff and if I want to include it in a game, it's up to me to figure something out. Remember when white dwarf contained articles about how to include miniatures you loved in games? Now it's, we've written these rules and will release miniature to represent them complete with shiney advertisement.

Mad Makz
17-05-2007, 04:02
Well, I imagine it has to do with volumes of sales. Having a massive sprawling range of awesome individual figures that will be picked up in very small increments just sitting on shelves while ensuring the sort of chain of supply Games Workshop retail arm demands is not economically viable.

On a smaller scale, it's a lot more viable, and there are a vast number of smaller companies supplying to this niche market creating fantastic miniatures.

And GW does do it, there was those Gotrek & Felix display miniatures that came out in those foil bags (and a few more asides from memory.)... However, it isn't a practice that fits GW's size.

Now, if GW shed all it's bulk, closed all it's retail arms, shrank it's manufacturing division, relied solely on internet sales and distribution it would probably have the capability to be A) more profitable percentage wise, but have a much smaller market because it would become a much smaller company and B) more flexible in terms of what it produces.

What you are looking for isn't what GW do anymore. The question really is what they are currently doing sustainable - tough question to answer because ultimately at the scale and level of investment they are the ONLY ONES doing it.

NakedFisherman
17-05-2007, 04:07
Was I the only one who started this hobby collecting cool miniatures rather than playing the games?

Nope. I did the same.

Jedi152
17-05-2007, 08:45
Me too - GW used to be all about sculpting cool stuff and jamming it into a unit type/weapon type after - it's one of the things i mourn most about the 'new' company.

Crube
17-05-2007, 08:50
I too used to just collect whatever cool mini I fancied at the time.

Now I suppose GW has grown to such an extent that it's no longer viable for them to do so. I imagine all their designers are tied up designing new stuff that has rules, and so have no time to spend on other randomness...

Other manufacturers, as has been said are currently small enough to fill the niche - just have to try and find them

snurl
17-05-2007, 09:41
Same here. I began the fantasy thing with D&D back in the 70's, trying to have minis available for any encounter that might come up. Even though we seldom even used the minis for the games, it got to be a habit that lasted long after our D&D group stopped playing. I have minis from all over the place, each one bought with the best intentions of painting it someday.
Citadel was always one of my favorite ranges and still is, but as stated above, their focus nowdays seems to be on "game pieces" rather than single figures. This is the one gripe I have about the shift to all plastic figures, that is i might want to paint one orc, for example, but i have to buy a box of 16 or 20 to get the figure. With metal you could buy one blister and be off to the workbench. But I digress.

It would be nice to see more new oddball figures from Citadel, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

Gaebriel
17-05-2007, 10:05
Was I the only one who started this hobby collecting cool miniatures rather than playing the games? ...
Nope. I did the same.
Me too ...
I too used to just collect whatever cool mini I fancied at the time. ...
Same here. ...
Another one here...

And our stories are astonishingly similar, down to the shop ;) - I also only was a collector for a few years (late 80ies, early 90ies), though I then first practically used them with roleplaying games.

Nowadays when I flip through Stuff of Legends, I'm amazed at how many of the things that I bought back then were GW - I estimate about 75% (most were bought out of the shop's open bin - as they used to sell and resell collections). I also didn't associate Citadel with GW.

These days however, I wouldn't feel the urge to buy single GW models for that purpose - partially due to the price, partially due to a "wouldn't feel right for that use" (am I indoctrinated or what?).

Bookwrak
17-05-2007, 11:09
Well, the thing is what would be the point of releasing, or buying a 28 mm scale mini if it didn't have a role in the game? Display pieces are nice, but I want something that I can put down on the table and use too. I'd say that's why the Felix and Gortek diorama is designed so you can put the based minis in there. You have a nice display piece, but then you can take the models out and actually use them as well.

Bombot
17-05-2007, 11:45
I expect they believe that if there are no accompaying rules, then they won't shift enough units for it to be worth the effort in releasing them.

It's a fair question and I can give you an example - pirates. A lot of people have mentioned them recently due to Pirates of the Carribean having another film on the way. See they could go through the effort of desiging and balancing a pirate army list, which would take a lot of man hours, or they could through together a half-baked list and stick it in White Dwarf where few people would see it and even less would use it, and then finally they could release the miniatures. Or they could just do some pirate miniatures and players could work out themselves what to do with them (Empire troops, Dogs of War duellists, whatever).

GW may well be right in their assessment about the returns they'd get from such models, but it's a reasonable question to pose.

Gaebriel
17-05-2007, 12:01
Well, the thing is what would be the point of releasing, or buying a 28 mm scale mini if it didn't have a role in the game? Display pieces are nice, but I want something that I can put down on the table and use too. ...Reemphazising the interesting question of this thread.

An interesting thing I just discovered thinking about it myself. I would be much more inclined to buy models of wargame companies whose game I do not play as pure display pieces, as opposed to models of a game I play.

Though the thought in reference was towards Rakham's Confrontation which are really artistic pieces (must be a french thing...), so it perhaps doesn't count.

I guess when I know the game, I don't look at the model as a model alone, but also evaluate it as a playing piece - a somewhat tainted perception.

That's for me...

Asmith
17-05-2007, 15:30
My thinking is pretty much the opposite of what's expressed here. They shouldn't be afraid to release rules that don't have a miniature associated with them. Later they can fill in the blanks. This will also have the the beneficial effect of actually rewarding hobbiests who like to do conversion and scratchbuilds.

swordwind
17-05-2007, 17:02
Hasslefree (www.hasslefreeminiatures.co.uk) seems to be the way forward then.

Bookwrak
17-05-2007, 17:40
My thinking is pretty much the opposite of what's expressed here. They shouldn't be afraid to release rules that don't have a miniature associated with them. Later they can fill in the blanks. This will also have the the beneficial effect of actually rewarding hobbiests who like to do conversion and scratchbuilds.

You play Orks, don't you? :chrome:

They don't have to have a model for every rule and role. For example, in the Witchhunter's army, it's really up to you how you represent the various members of the retinue, as while there are general models for most of the roles, you don't always have specific ones.

Another good example would be the SoBs various special units. There are not specific models for Celestians, Retributors, but they are easily represented by regular sisters with the right weapons. I would really, _really_ hate it though, if for example, the only way to get a Multi-Melta Retributor was to have to convert it from a standard bolter carrying metal sister.

selfconstrukt
20-05-2007, 16:35
Was I the only one who started this hobby collecting cool miniatures rather than playing the games?

Nope, I did the same, but not just with GW models. RAFM, Ral Partha, back in the day etc.

GW could easily go back to doing that, since many of the "unreleased" models they have do tie in with the games.

I remember seeing a pic of an Empire Soldier receiving a sword from a flagellant(?) and thought it was an really cool model, and I still want one! I could use it as a Priest of Sigmar, or an Empire Hero. Even though it's a "scenic" bit it could easily be used in an army.

Or how about using it for Games Day? Paint it up really nice and enter it in the Golden Demon!

ansible5
20-05-2007, 19:59
Hasslefree (www.hasslefreeminiatures.co.uk) seems to be the way forward then.

i must admit agree with this i dropped 80 with them last month on nice shiny miniatures just because i wanted to paint them. can anyone say that about any recent gw release. the last ones i bought from gw for this reason was calgar and his honour guard

Hollopoint
20-05-2007, 20:29
I've just recently bought a Slann Mage Priest because I really like the model. I've been sticking it together in-between constructing my Tau and Brets and will paint him up to display.

I agree that it would be cool if GW released a few more display figures or dioramas of specific events in their game universes. For instance, I would love to have a diorama of Horus and the Emperor fighting it out.

Lord Malek The Red Knight
20-05-2007, 21:00
while not overtly GW, there are the Femme Militant (http://www.femmemilitant.com/) range, and from GW... most recently, the Eldar Bonesinger.

although i really dont see the point in an ordinary model (as opposed to a bust or something from FW) not beig suitable for tabletop play as well as displaying. :confused:

~ Tim