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ice5nake
17-05-2007, 20:22
This question relates to what information you need to disclose to your opponent during the deployment phase.

When deploying troops does a Chaos player need to let you know anything about whether or not a unit is Chosen or just regular warriors?

Similarly with Lizardmen spawnings, since technically aren't the lizards suppose to be different colors depending on which spawning they are from?

How about Longbeards vs Dwarf Warriors?

What about magical banners? Are banners recognizable? Like the VC "Banner of Barrows"; would an opponent be able to say, "I recognize that banner as the Banner of Barrows?

T10
17-05-2007, 20:28
"This is a unit of Chosen Chaos Warriors of Khorne armed with halberds and shields, with full command: musician, champion and banner. This here is a Chaos Lord. He's a REAL badass!"

-T10

Festus
17-05-2007, 20:30
Hi

You do not have to disclose Magic Items (as long as everything is WYSIWYG, you don't need to disclose anything at all, as everything should be clear).

You should tell whether a unit is Marked, or has a Spawning, and if it is chosen as well. This applies to other upgrades as well: Orc Big'Uns, Dwarf Longbeards, et al.

Festus

theunwantedbeing
17-05-2007, 20:31
Mundane things should be visible.
Magical things dont have to be visible at all.

To put it nice and simply.

EvC
17-05-2007, 21:03
Another question: can you measure stuff (Other than deployment limits) as you deploy, e.g. making sure your units are within 12" of the general..?

Asrai Wraith
17-05-2007, 21:08
Isn't this more common practice than actual rules?

T10
17-05-2007, 21:25
Yes. However, some items rely on this common practice as a game element to overcome, e.g. requiring your opponent to reveal "hidden" elements such as fanatics, or magical items.

-T10

Sanjuro
17-05-2007, 21:36
Yes. However, some items rely on this common practice as a game element to overcome, e.g. requiring your opponent to reveal "hidden" elements such as fanatics, or magical items.

-T10

On a related note, I have to ask - does anyone, ever take those items? Has anyone here ever heard of anyone who does?

Nell2ThaIzzay
17-05-2007, 21:41
The way I play, you never need to tell your opponent about what magical items, or extra items, you have bought for your units.

Basically, all you the opponent needs to know is "This is a unit of 20 skeletons". "This is my Necrarch Vampire Count", etc...

Nell2ThaIzzay
17-05-2007, 21:42
Another question: can you measure stuff (Other than deployment limits) as you deploy, e.g. making sure your units are within 12" of the general..?

I believe so.

I normally don't do it, but my opponent has let me do it before.

Chicago Slim
17-05-2007, 22:28
On a related note, I have to ask - does anyone, ever take those items? Has anyone here ever heard of anyone who does?

Sure. I've done it, and I've seen my regular opponents bring them. I certainly don't ALWAYS bring them, but there have been a couple of times when they've been useful. Partly, I think it was a metagame thing: a couple of the lads had gotten into a habit of bringing three fighty heroes, one of them tooled up for slaughter, one of them tooled up for defense, and one of them tooled up for monster-killing. So, it became useful to find out which was which, before committing certain forces.

Once I'd demonstrated that ability a couple of times, the opposing tactics changed to reduce the usefulness of that ability...

theunwantedbeing
17-05-2007, 22:30
I'de allow my opponent to measure to see if his units were within range of his general,although I'de stop him if he started measuring other things.

ie. a quick measure,12" tape measure,put to one side of the general,then the other.
You general is going to go down virtually last anyhow,so you cant move your troops once you've done this.

Plus it means I know which units definitely get the general's leadership,so I wont be going for them untill I know the general is out of the way.

Angelwing
18-05-2007, 01:16
surely you can measure all you want within your own deployment zone?
Also, I believe you only have to declare which model is your general.
I regard it as a courtesy to declare for example "grave guard with full command" when I deploy said unit.

Brother Siccarius
18-05-2007, 01:37
On a related note, I have to ask - does anyone, ever take those items? Has anyone here ever heard of anyone who does?

Always used to take it for my Tzeentch BSB as it was just a great item for small points. Anything that threatened my large point chosen units would get a few beast herds sent at them first to lure out magic items/ fanatics/ assassins/ ect.

theunwantedbeing
18-05-2007, 01:54
That does seem like rather a good plan,
As soon as you start revealing everything items like that lose their worth.

505
18-05-2007, 02:55
On a related note, I have to ask - does anyone, ever take those items? Has anyone here ever heard of anyone who does?

I like the HE vauls unmaking...and once in a while I take the ring that has that too.

Brother Siccarius
18-05-2007, 04:33
That does seem like rather a good plan,
As soon as you start revealing everything items like that lose their worth.

Sure, after saving several hundred points of Chosen, they lose their worth.....

Kotobuki
18-05-2007, 06:04
The most important things (and really, the only neccesary ones) to disclose at deployment are those mundane options that are not readily appearant. i.e. Which Chaos warriors are chosen as opposed to regular. If you've converted a different unit out of the same basic box as something else. Or if you don't have something completed, i.e. your command models or a converted character, you should let the opponent know.

On the other hand, if you've got a magic banner in a unit, all the opponent needs to be able to see is that there's a banner, not even that it's magic, much less specifically which magic banner it is.

Tutore
18-05-2007, 08:10
We play this way: at the same time we deploy a unit, we announce "Unit of 20 Orc boyz with 2 choppas. Full command." Or: "This is a Orc Warboss on Boar, with light armour and shield". We don't obviously say "This is a Orc Warboss on Boar, with Martog's Best Basha, light armour, shield and amulet of protectyness". We also add "This is a unit of Big 'Uns" if it is. Also, if someone doesn't know the enemy army list very well, he's 100% allowed to ask information about the unit. Example: "I deploy a unit of 20 White Lions, full command". Question: "If I don't remember badly, they have a special rule." "Yes, they are forestal, thus can move through woods at no penalty. And their furs give them 4+ armour save vs. missiles" "Thank you". We are very gentle.

Sanjuro
18-05-2007, 08:50
When I field my Tzeentch champion on disk, I actually make it a point to state loud and clearly that he has the Golden Eye of Tzeentch (3+ ward versus shooting). Usually, the opponent just figures that shooting at him is a wasted effort and goes for other targets.

Which has saved my butt several times - a 3+ ward is good, but in no means foolproof! The only absolutely sure way to be protected from shooting is not being shot at, and disclosing this supposedly 'secret' information is a good way of achieving that, I have found. So there you are - a situation where it might actually be beneficial to be open about magic items.

:)

(We're quite open about stuff like this in our gaming group anyway. Exchanges like "So that Dwarf Lord's got an Oath Stone, has he, ye shifty little bastard?" "You know it, bucko!" are quite common.)

DeathlessDraich
18-05-2007, 12:00
That does seem like rather a good plan,
As soon as you start revealing everything items like that lose their worth.

I'm sure the items have intrinsic worth other than the surprise factor.


On a related note, I have to ask - does anyone, ever take those items? Has anyone here ever heard of anyone who does?

Ring of Corrin is extremely good and popular but I don't know of any Skaven player that uses Ring of Darkness because it practically 'assists' effective use of the Ring of Corrin.



(We're quite open about stuff like this in our gaming group anyway. Exchanges like "So that Dwarf Lord's got an Oath Stone, has he, ye shifty little bastard?" "You know it, bucko!" are quite common.)

Happens very often with players who meet on a frequent basis. Their favourite magic items, even the number of Scrolls become well known.
I agree that it doesn't diminish enjoyment in any way.

I think it is generally agreed not to reveal magic items.

What about Virtues, Spawnings, Kindreds etc?

Do players here reveal them or feel a need to?

Angelwing
18-05-2007, 13:55
We play this way: at the same time we deploy a unit, we announce "Unit of 20 Orc boyz with 2 choppas. Full command." Or: "This is a Orc Warboss on Boar, with light armour and shield". We don't obviously say "This is a Orc Warboss on Boar, with Martog's Best Basha, light armour, shield and amulet of protectyness". We also add "This is a unit of Big 'Uns" if it is. Also, if someone doesn't know the enemy army list very well, he's 100% allowed to ask information about the unit. Example: "I deploy a unit of 20 White Lions, full command". Question: "If I don't remember badly, they have a special rule." "Yes, they are forestal, thus can move through woods at no penalty. And their furs give them 4+ armour save vs. missiles" "Thank you". We are very gentle.

ah, a man after my own heart. common sense and courtesy prevail!

T10
18-05-2007, 14:19
T10: "Lizardmen, eh? And I'm guessing that strapping young character there has Movement 9 and a Great Weapon."

Newbie Lizardman Player : "Yeah.. (surprise and alarm) Hey, how did you know that?"

T10: "The wheel doesn't get any rounder, my young padawan. Cannons, SOUTH!"

-T10

Sasha
18-05-2007, 14:21
i would have thought it would be against the rules (and certainly against the spirit of the game) to not exmplain rules to your opponents.

"so, you don't know about white lions huh? well, that's going to make this hard for you" would anyone really play like that?

you should explain anthing your opponent wants to know; what they're armed with, command, special rules, etc.

Atrahasis
18-05-2007, 14:38
Special rules need only be explained/revealed the first time they come into play. It is your opponent's job to know his enemy.

xmbk
18-05-2007, 14:52
So that Dwarf Lord's got an Oath Stone, has he, ye shifty little bastard?"


The Oathstone actually must be revealed at the start of the game. The char deploys with the unit. A lot of people like to "spring" the Oathstone, but they shouldn't.

GranFarfar
18-05-2007, 15:06
Special rules need only be explained/revealed the first time they come into play. It is your opponent's job to know his enemy.

Perheps. But since you need army books to know all this, I would be rather suprised if a person refused to explain(or atleast show his army book) when asked about a special rule.

Atrahasis
18-05-2007, 15:09
Perheps. But since you need army books to know all this, I would be rather suprised if a person refused to explain(or atleast show his army book) when asked about a special rule.

Oh, it is a players duty to explain any rules in full, and even to show the relevant rule to the opponent if asked.

They needn't be revealed until used though.

Falcon
18-05-2007, 15:41
When I field my Tzeentch champion on disk, I actually make it a point to state loud and clearly that he has the Golden Eye of Tzeentch (3+ ward versus shooting). Usually, the opponent just figures that shooting at him is a wasted effort and goes for other targets.

Yea, I've done the same.
Me: "These saurus Cav has the Sun Standard of Chotec, making them -1 to hit"
Newby WE player: "OK thanks, I'll just concentrate my fire on those little guys with the blowpipes then"
:rolleyes:


We're quite open about stuff like this in our gaming group anyway. Exchanges like "So that Dwarf Lord's got an Oath Stone, has he, ye shifty little bastard?" "You know it, bucko!" are quite common.

I wouldn't not play someone who is extremely secretive his master plan regarding how he will surprise and overcome me with his cunning use of lethal and secret combos :cheese: but I prefer a friendly bloke who's just trying to have a fun and fair game.

In my small group we often play completely open games where share rosters before the game and try and figure out what the other guy will do. But that's just the way we prefer it.

luckysevens
18-05-2007, 15:56
A few weeks ago I played a Lizardmen army with my HE, and my opponent went for my Dragon Princes with his Salamanders - at which point I reveal that, sorry, they're immune to fire based attacks.

Now, technically I agree with Atrahasis - I didn't, at the beginning of the game, have to run through my whole army's equipment, pointing out that, by the way, these guys are immune to fire - but I felt pretty bad about it afterwards.

As it happens, I got totally crushed in the game anyway, so it was all a bit irrelevant :)

Anyway, now I always make a point to offer at the start of games to explain anything my opponent wants to know about my units (obviously not magic items) - usually they say no, their loss :rolleyes:

Sanjuro
18-05-2007, 16:14
The Oathstone actually must be revealed at the start of the game. The char deploys with the unit. A lot of people like to "spring" the Oathstone, but they shouldn't.

Oh yeah, now that you say it, I remember that.

Well, it was a bad example, but you get the geist of my point. Yeah, we're quite open with our lists - if I'm going to cheese out totally, the least I can do is to be open and frank about it. :angel: :cheese: :cool:

Brother Siccarius
18-05-2007, 18:51
When I field my Tzeentch champion on disk, I actually make it a point to state loud and clearly that he has the Golden Eye of Tzeentch (3+ ward versus shooting). Usually, the opponent just figures that shooting at him is a wasted effort and goes for other targets.

Which has saved my butt several times - a 3+ ward is good, but in no means foolproof! The only absolutely sure way to be protected from shooting is not being shot at, and disclosing this supposedly 'secret' information is a good way of achieving that, I have found. So there you are - a situation where it might actually be beneficial to be open about magic items.

:)

I wanted to tick off the jezzail heavy skaven player in our group (Who would tout about how great a player he was because his army was hard to defeat), so I ran the same combination with the enchanted shield (just for S&Gs). It was fun telling him that the guy he just shot his first unit of 20 jezzails at has a 2+ armor and a 3+ ward against his shooting, to the credit of my dice, not a shot passed through his defenses, and not a wound on the mount either.

But, if I had chosen to tell him at deployment what he had, I could have kissed the rest of my army goodbye.

DeathlessDraich
18-05-2007, 19:57
Can I venture to say that by implication, it would be against the rules to reveal magic items.
There are magic items which cause other magic items to be revealed.

Wouldn't it be a better idea to reveal the popular magic items of an army to inexperienced players.

When playing TK against inexperienced players I tend to mention the 3 popular magic banners, Destroyer, Cloak of dunes, Hieratic Jar as possibles.
Skaven - Storm Daemon/Banner, Fell Blade etc.

I don't think it is necessary to reveal the 4+ Ward save until necessary amd I certainly don't think any Dispel Scrolls should be revealed.

It is part of the enjoyment of the game to guess where and which character has the common deadly magic items.

Sanjuro
18-05-2007, 20:04
he just shot his first unit of 20 jezzails

:eek:

Are these the kind of people who always go for 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th fillings on a buffet? When did they neglect to learn that enough is enough?


Can I venture to say that by implication, it would be against the rules to reveal magic items.

Probably, but that's taking the rules to a level and atmosphere that I and most gamers I know and socialize with wouldn't be comfortable playing in.

Sasha
18-05-2007, 20:05
Special rules need only be explained/revealed the first time they come into play. It is your opponent's job to know his enemy.

surely not. you can't be expected to know every units special rules, not everyone has been playing the game forever and has the latest copy of every army book.

i don't think you have to run through every special rule at the begining of the battle if they don't ask, but if they do, you can't just say 'sorry you should know that'; that's not going to lead to a fun game.

Sanjuro
18-05-2007, 20:07
surely not. you can't be expected to know every units special rules, not everyone has been playing the game forever and has the latest copy of every army book.

i don't think you have to run through every special rule at the begining of the battle if they don't ask, but if they do, you can't just say 'sorry you should know that'; that's not going to lead to a fun game.

I think Atrahasis (why do I always want to read that as Arthritis?) was talking about a tournament context, or a tournament-preparing club context. In which case it is indeed the duty of every player to know one's enemies. How well that duty is fulfilled is another matter...

Atrahasis
18-05-2007, 21:07
surely not. you can't be expected to know every units special rules, not everyone has been playing the game forever and has the latest copy of every army book.

i don't think you have to run through every special rule at the begining of the battle if they don't ask, but if they do, you can't just say 'sorry you should know that'; that's not going to lead to a fun game.

Read my next post, it clarifies a lot.

Sasha
18-05-2007, 22:25
ah yes, well, we agree then, sorry about that

SlaaneshSlave
18-05-2007, 22:36
I was playing someone I never saw at our local store before; a "Visitor".

I place a unit of 6 Chaos Knights with full command & pink armor.
Me: "6 Chosen Knights of Slaanesh with full command."
Him: "Do they have that nasty banner?"
Me: "You can ask anyone here & they will tell you my unit of 6 Slaanesh Knights ALWAYS has the Soporific Banner"

Dead Man Walking
19-05-2007, 03:48
Tonight I played a game, my opponent asked if I had cameleons in my army, I said no I dont, they cost too much. Then he asked if I had any bound items and I said that I wasnt required to tell him what magic items I had. Then he asked if i had spears on my lizardmen and I said I did. Then after we set up I said that I would set my skink scouts up and my opponent slapped himself because when he asked if I had cameleons he meant scouts, but since he asked for cameleons and not scouts I answered him.

I feel it is up to my opponent to ask the questions. If they are not interested in what they are facing thats thier problem.

I always ask questions of any unit as they are being placed on the table. I ask for thier stats, thier weapons, and any special rules. Before the game begins I ask the player to point out where thier characters are.

This goes along the rule of 'know thy enemy'.

Falcon
19-05-2007, 05:05
I was playing someone I never saw at our local store before; a "Visitor".

I place a unit of 6 Chaos Knights with full command & pink armor.
Me: "6 Chosen Knights of Slaanesh with full command."
Him: "Do they have that nasty banner?"
Me: "You can ask anyone here & they will tell you my unit of 6 Slaanesh Knights ALWAYS has the Soporific Banner"

Pink knights with a banner you say. I hope there's a yellow smily face on said banner. I'd love to see the look on you opponent's face as the smily unit of pansy knights rip through his army :D

DeathlessDraich
19-05-2007, 11:27
he just shot his first unit of 20 jezzails at , I could have kissed the rest of my army goodbye.


:eek:

Are these the kind of people who always go for 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th fillings on a buffet? When did they neglect to learn that enough is enough?


Apologies for going off on a tangent.
20 Jezzails is not that bad but then again I have had second helpings at a buffet. :p
35 Jezzails, 4 Warplighning spells per round and 5 Ratling guns are theoretically possible but you may be pleased to know every Skaven player on the Council of 13, thinks that this is far over the top and is not a tournament winning combination.
These combinations are lop sided, appear to be frightening but easily massacred after the initial surprising losses in the first 2 rounds especially by Fear causing armies.

Sanjuro
19-05-2007, 12:14
The fact that it isn't tournament winning material doesn't make it any less over the top though, that's quite insane. I mean, does he cackle maniacally before every game? Does he go like 'I have a million gazillion shooters! Bwahaa!'? Does he wear his underpants on his head and stick pencils up his nose?

And the fact that it isn't tournament winning (which it wouldn't be in any tournament with anything resembling soft scores) doesn't mean it wouldn't wipe certain armies clean off the board with little to no interaction from the other part. GG, I say! :)

DeathlessDraich
19-05-2007, 12:51
Apologies ice snake for carrying on with a somewhat off topic discussion.

Sanj: It is actually quite exciting to face a SAD army. I use them against the players at my club who are apprehensive about them and show them how they could be defeated - so far 3 massacres against SAD with 4 Ratling guns, - Ogres, Empire, Undead.
I think WE and certain versions of Lizardmen are notoriously difficult to beat but very few complain about these armies.
Poor Skaven takes a lot of criticism.

SlaaneshSlave
19-05-2007, 15:23
I'd love to see the look on you opponent's face as the smily unit of pansy knights rip through his army :D
Nothing is so embarrassing as getting your ass kick by dudes in pink.

Fear my pink boys...

GranFarfar
19-05-2007, 21:08
Oh, it is a players duty to explain any rules in full, and even to show the relevant rule to the opponent if asked.

They needn't be revealed until used though.

Oh I see. Missunterstood your first post.


Tonight I played a game, my opponent asked if I had cameleons in my army, I said no I dont, they cost too much. Then he asked if I had any bound items and I said that I wasnt required to tell him what magic items I had. Then he asked if i had spears on my lizardmen and I said I did. Then after we set up I said that I would set my skink scouts up and my opponent slapped himself because when he asked if I had cameleons he meant scouts, but since he asked for cameleons and not scouts I answered him.

I feel it is up to my opponent to ask the questions. If they are not interested in what they are facing thats thier problem.

I always ask questions of any unit as they are being placed on the table. I ask for thier stats, thier weapons, and any special rules. Before the game begins I ask the player to point out where thier characters are.

This goes along the rule of 'know thy enemy'.

Surely you are required to tell your opponent what kind of troops you are fielding before the deployment?! It is one thing to not tell about certain specific rules, but witholding which units you are fielding until he asks about every singel one about them seems to me to be a bit excessive.
Dare I ask, is this in the rules? To identify your army and units for your oppontent? Causs, around here we have always done it, in every singel game. And because of that I have also taken it for granted as some kind of rule. Maby I am just mistaken...

Sanjuro
19-05-2007, 22:54
WE and certain versions of Lizardmen are notoriously difficult to beat but very few complain about these armies.


You kidding? I complain about them all the time! I know there circulates a quote by me here on this forum in a .sig that says WE are balanced, but that was said by a younger and much more naive me. :angel:

This whole discussion (the main topic, not our little side-rant, which is over now I promise) just brings to mind again that age-old question: are the Warhammer rules written by people who actually play the game from time to time? This question, for example, quite often pops up during play, and especially so because different groups tend to have different ways of approaching this. When people with different norms (read: house rules) meet, controversy arises.

Why couldn't this be adressed with a simple sentence in the main rulebook? 'This and that is considered secret information on deployment, this and that is considered open.' Is a simple oversight the reason to why this single sentence is missing? Surely it must have come up during playtesting? Or do the game designers only play within their own tight-knit circle where the norms are all the same and questions such as this are never provoked?

Well, one wonders.

Festus
20-05-2007, 08:30
Hi

Why couldn't this be adressed with a simple sentence in the main rulebook? 'This and that is considered secret information on deployment, this and that is considered open.' Is a simple oversight the reason to why this single sentence is missing? Surely it must have come up during playtesting? Or do the game designers only play within their own tight-knit circle where the norms are all the same and questions such as this are never provoked?
Maybe it is because it would add this certain je-ne-sais-quoi of *officialdom* in an area of the game which basically is part of the agreement-situation, ie. the way players organise and like their sportsmanship.

Tourney organizers may provide this rule at their leisure, in your group, with your mates, you surely will find a way to handle it yourself - according to your preferences.

FEstus

Sanjuro
20-05-2007, 10:24
Yes, I suppose that's a possibility, one that I didn't consider. I guess I let the pessimist inside get the better of me! Still, it would be nice to have a few pages in the rule book dedicated to game theory (there sure is space enough) wherein the agreement-situation and other things could be discussed. I think it is always positive to get some insight into the philosophy of the game designers, and I also think that GW tends to squander opportunities to provide such.

Krankenstein
20-05-2007, 13:36
Maybe it is because it would add this certain je-ne-sais-quoi of *officialdom* in an area of the game which basically is part of the agreement-situation, ie. the way players organise and like their sportsmanship.


Well, that is what rules do. If Games Workshop made it clear what was open and what was secret (and we know both open and secret stuff has been put in the game on purpose), anybody who liked a different set-up could make a houserule.

Festus
20-05-2007, 13:56
According to the rules, a WHFB army must consist solely of Citadel miniatures, and nothing else.

Do you agree? Well, it is the rules, you see...

Festus

Krankenstein
21-05-2007, 18:41
According to the rules, a WHFB army must consist solely of Citadel miniatures, and nothing else.

Do you agree? Well, it is the rules, you see...

Festus

:eyebrows: Is this supposed to be clever? I already wrote that once the rules are known, you can choose to houserule. In fact it becomes a lot easier to do so.

To repeat: It is already a part of the game that some things are open and some things are secret. You even pay points to get secret stuff like assassins, and you can pay points to reveal your opponents secret stuff though magic items. If your way of handling what is secret and what is open deviates from Games Workshops vision, then you at least affect the value of secret stuff and revealing stuff in your game.

Alas, no one knows what Games Workshops vision is, here.

Festus
21-05-2007, 18:53
Alas, no one knows what Games Workshops vision is, here.
... which precisely is the point! Congratulations ...

So maybe it was GW's vision *not* to have the rules you are looking for? Maybe they want us to play with *painted Citadel miniatures* and they do not want us to have a precise and comprehensive list of what is hidden and what is not?
Ever thought about that?

Festus

DeathlessDraich
21-05-2007, 18:56
Alas, no one knows what Games Workshops vision is, here.

I do!
It's 20/40 or 6/12 i.e. severely myopic! :D

Krankenstein
21-05-2007, 19:21
... which precisely is the point! Congratulations ...

So maybe it was GW's vision *not* to have the rules you are looking for? Maybe they want us to play with *painted Citadel miniatures* and they do not want us to have a precise and comprehensive list of what is hidden and what is not?
Ever thought about that?

Festus

If you are trying to say that Games Workshops solution to all this is WYSIWYG (and that might well be true) that still does not prevent Games Workshop from making this clear, and exploring it.

For example:

“You need to paint your chaos warriors in the colour of their mark, so that the mark is clear to your opponent. If the unit is chosen this must also be shown for example by blah”

“Magic items are indicated by painting the figure …” or “Magic items cannot be recognized as such, and so you need not paint them in a special way if you don’t want to.”


Thinking the game you want people to play into the rules. Or simply game design.

Festus
21-05-2007, 19:28
Hi

No, I do not say that GW's solution is WYSIWYG: I say that GW has no solution because they do not feel the need for a solution.

If you crave for something of a rule concerning hidden/open, go with what the Game Designers tell you: Use TMIR on p. 3 of the BRB - develop your own rule. If you really need one.

The game designers obviously didn't need one - and they are right with it IMO

Festus

Dead Man Walking
22-05-2007, 01:42
Has anyone ever seen a battle report where the players explain what they are fielding to the other player? Has anyone ever seen two GW players playing a game togeather and saying, "Okay this one has a magic banner of 'blagh' and this unit has 3 fanatics." ?

EvC
22-05-2007, 11:55
Well someone yesterday saw me and another player listing the magic items owned by our characters and units, though we just did that for simplicity ;)

Gottkaiser
22-05-2007, 13:16
When we deploy our forces, we always tell what kind it is, which weaponry, armour, command etc, everything the enemy would be able to see. Magic items are referred as theie mundane counterparts, e.g. a Beastmen chieftain with mark of nurgle, Sword of might, shield, Armour of Damnation and crown of everlasting conquest would be declared as "chieftain, handweapon, shield, chaos armour and mark of nurgle". Thus the magic item remain their secrecy (a black blade could have dozens of reasons, not only magic...) but the enemy knows what comes towards them. Special rules may be asked for and will be told, and if an enemy tells me he doesn't know my army, I will tell special rules and important things when I deploy my army.
I guess this way is the easiest to have your opponent informed. And I personally dislike those people deploying a Tyrant (the ogre kingdom general) declaring a "hand weapon" and suddenly revealing the great weapon with S+3 he didn't announce because it is a magic weapon. It just seems wrong to me.

Atrahasis
22-05-2007, 13:21
WALL OF TEXT

I agree with pretty much everything here. :)